What Does Baptism Mean To You

Brother David · Feb 3, 2014

Brother Paul said:
No I would say you are confusing "in His name" and "INTO His name" and have no idea what this means just what you have been wrongly convinced of (Perhaps you have been reading the heresies of David Bernard)...he does not tell you what he knows to be true (that which I have revealed unto you)...this is where you got the idea that the name Jesus is the name of the Father and the Spirit (same faulty source)...the Son exists from all eternity with the Father and the Spirit but Jesus was made a little lower than the angels...it is God's word and His sovereign plan, that He may be the Lamb of God (our perfect atonement without spot or blemish...the only appropriate sin offering)...in baptism we become identified with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection

Being baptized using the name of the Lord Jesus is not wrong, nor the only correct way, just as being baptized "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" is also not wrong, nor the only correct way...its about you being placed in God and God being placed in you...if you truly have faith...

I know many UPC and Holiness Apostolic people who love the Lord God deeply with great commitment and love their neighbor as themselves, accepting and walking in the sacrifice Christ made on their behalf...so I am not saying you are not saved (as some will now that this secret is revealed), I am saying you have been convinced of a set of incorrect understandings as assuredly contrived as the doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses...were you also taught how to speak in tongues and convinced by them if you did not do so you could not be saved (other lies)...

Run from them my friend as fast as you can...they teach "another Jesus"...run fast...this is the first of two admonitions, after that I will not speak of this again. As soon as I stop typing I am praying for the veil to be lifted. May the Lord have mercy on us all.

In His love

brother Paul

Brother David · Feb 3, 2014

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus was teaching, there was no water, and they were NOT baptizing. But this was a command that was given to baptize in the NAME- Not names or titles.
The Apostles certainly understood the ONLY saving name to be Jesus, unless you are saying that in the book of Acts when the New Testament Church was birthed that the Apostles contradicted Jesus and baptized wrong ?
Acts 2:38
King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 10:48
King James Version (KJV)
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
John's disciples were re-baptized "In Jesus' Name" in Acts chapter 19---
Acts 19:3-5
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Romans 6:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Colossians 2:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Acts 4:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Colossians 3:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

I praise the Lord becuase this is the second time on this board the word heresy (heretic) has been directed toward me....That is ok
you take the broad, well travelled road, but for me I shall take this road less travelled.
On this way called heresy the road is narrow, Jesus said it would be.
I throw no stones at you Paul because I was baptized in the titles a long time ago, but when Jesus turned the light on- I was re-baptized "In the NAME of Jesus Christ"

I have no "secret" adgenda......I am not living for the approval of man, but God only. This is not being done under a bushel basket, but a light shinning on a hill for all to see.

Brother Paul · Feb 4, 2014

Well let's see...

I never said you have a secret agenda...next, Sebellianism is most certainly a heretical teaching because it makes "Jesus" the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, where the Bible teaches "YHVH" is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and that the Son became incarnate as Jesus the Messiah (not the Father or the Spirit)...and as I said, Baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ is biblical and fine with me, but it is not about saying a specific formula, it is about being immersed in His presence, authority, character, etc., as this is what He was talking about...you become identified with Christ you become immersed in HIS death, burial, and resurrection...

I believe in the importance of water baptism so you have no argument here...but it is not about the words as if they are a magical formula, thats all...just research the meaning of the Hebrew word shem (which is translated as "name") remember Jesus came as a Hebrew speaking to 1st century Hebrew people...all of His first 1,000's of witnesses many who came to be Christians (followers of the Lord Jesus) were all Hebrew people who thought as Hebrews and understood the language as Hebrew people would understand...when God changes Abram's "shem" to Abraham, He not merely added some utterable letters (making which gluttural sounds the importance), no, He was changes Abram's status in relation to HIM, effecting who he would be from that point on and forever...same with Jacob (Israel), Simon (Peter), Saul (Paul), etc., but I shall make no apologies about calling Sebellianism a heresy for that it is...I am on the narrow road as well and do not travel the broad road...other wise I would have never told you the truth about God and your modalism...I am not saying you do not love Jesus or are not saved (God forbid!) but I am telling you, you are under false teaching...(not the same of simply belonging to a different Christian denomination)...therefore you may be in Christ and for that I cheer and praise God but you are on dangerous ground...

Brother David · Feb 4, 2014

Paul, you are the one who is labeling me......We are not just talking about words.....We're talking about the name of Jesus Christ, who I worship as my God- Not magic formulas.
Show me ONE explicit verse in scripture where they spoke of someone's baptism in the trinity formula. When you were baptized did your pastor not say something like: "As my brother in Christ, I now baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost ??
I gave you a list of explicit scriptures Paul, you haven't provided one

LysanderShapiro · Feb 6, 2014

Steve Amato said:
First of all the idea reckoning salvation as contingent upon a religious ritual, namely water baptism, is salvation by works and as such is contrary to the gospel. It is a Judaizing of the faith - or one may say a Catholicizing of the faith - having its origin among the cult of the circumcision of which Paul wrote about in Galatians and elsewhere.

And likewise concerning the Pentecostal position of making salvation contingent upon a particular baptismal formula - in particular upon saying that one is baptized in the name of Jesus only in contrast to that of Mt 28:19.

Such people of a salvation by works theology are themselves unsaved and need to repent and come to believe the gospel.

I have to respectfully disagree.

Acts 2:38: "Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

1 Peter 3:21: "Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

Mark 16:16: "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned."

John 3:5: "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

James 2:24: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

James 2:20: "But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?"

James 2:26: "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

Faith is 100% necessary -- Ephesians 2:8-9 says "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." 1 Corinthians 13:13 says "But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love."

But there are multiple verses that explain salvation of Grace alone through faith, but faith without works is dead. With baptism, whether one regards this as a work or not according to the Bible, it's certainly not a "play thing" as Martin Luther said. One can't take what he likes about the Bible and dismiss what is inconvenient for him.

Brother David · Feb 6, 2014

Steve Amato said:
First of all the idea reckoning salvation as contingent upon a religious ritual, namely water baptism, is salvation by works and as such is contrary to the gospel. It is a Judaizing of the faith - or one may say a Catholicizing of the faith - having its origin among the cult of the circumcision of which Paul wrote about in Galatians and elsewhere.

And likewise concerning the Pentecostal position of making salvation contingent upon a particular baptismal formula - in particular upon saying that one is baptized in the name of Jesus only in contrast to that of Mt 28:19.

Such people of a salvation by works theology are themselves unsaved and need to repent and come to believe the gospel.

What is the saving Gospel ? Just believe? Shaking a preacher's hand? Signing a church membership? Accepting Christ?
Sure, the Gospel is "The Good News" But, good news about what ? The good news the Jesus saves ( yes Jesus saves and that is good news......But, NOT the Gospel of Jesus Christ)
What is the saving Gospel according to the Bible ? It is: The DEATH, The BURIAL, and The RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
The know the Gospel is good.... But, we must have it applied upon our life to be of any benefit to us.
Romans 6:3-5
King James Version (KJV)
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
We apply the Gospel when we Die ( REPENT), we are Buried (Baptism), Resurrection ( Gift / of Baptism of the Holy Ghost)

Acts 2:38
King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
After Peter preached on the day of Pentecost (birthday of the New Testament Church) 3,000 souls were added to the Church !!

Brother David · Feb 7, 2014

Steve Amato said:
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about— but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness APART FROM WORKS. (faith alone justifies)

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

What was Paul so upset at in Galatians that led him to say, "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"

It was because some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." Acts 15:1 So Paul went to the church in Jerusalem to discover a cult of false brethren in that church - which was the origin of Catholicism - the origin of sacramental theology. "This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you."

Paul rebuked Peter for compromising the gospel by his actions and said to him, "know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified." Gal 2:16

He asked rhetorically, "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?" Gal 2:2 Just as in Romans 4 Paul viewed the gospel as an offer of salvation by faith alone apart from the observance of regulations and religious rituals.

Catholics, "Jesus only" Pentecostals and other such denominations who view salvation contingent upon one's works - the observance of regulations and religious rituals - are in the same category as the heretics Paul dealt with - false brethren who not only don't believe the gospel but who fabricate their own gospel, infiltrating the Christian community to propagate heresy.

Jesus Only ?? How could you ever refer to God as Jesus Only ?? I personally am Jesus EVERYTHING !!

Candelario Mario Villa · Feb 7, 2014

Jesus said that every word should be confirmed by "...the mouth of two witnesses of three." And so there are three primary witnesses to the true Gospel. The third witness is the Apostle Paul, who wrote that it is the gospel "By which also you are saved, if you keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain."
The first witness is the Lord Jesus, himself, who stated: "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved." So the promise of salvation (shall be) is to those who believe and are baptized; not to those who are only baptized: for baptism must be preceded by faith. Those who are condemned are those who did not believe: even though they might have been "baptized". For baptism (works) without faith is dead!
The second witness is the Apostle Peter, who was filled with the Holy Spirit when he said, "Repent (believe)...and be baptized...and you shall (the promise) receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (be saved).
The promise of salvation to the jailer (Acts 16:31) is NOT of itself salvation, but it came with the preaching of the gospel: "And they spoke unto him the word of the Lord (the gospel), and to all that were in his house....and was baptized, he and all his house."
Do not run away from the gospel that saves: run TO IT!

RosaVera · Feb 7, 2014

Brother David said:
Paul, you are the one who is labeling me......We are not just talking about words.....We're talking about the name of Jesus Christ, who I worship as my God- Not magic formulas.
Show me ONE explicit verse in scripture where they spoke of someone's baptism in the trinity formula. When you were baptized did your pastor not say something like: "As my brother in Christ, I now baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost ??
I gave you a list of explicit scriptures Paul, you haven't provided one

i worship Jesus as my God... St. Thomas said ''my Lord, my God" and i repeat these words always as they are to me everything...

Ricko1 · Feb 7, 2014

Here is a verse that shows you must be Baptized after you first beleive....Acts 8 verses 36-38..... Apostle Philip was witnessing to the Eunich...." If you beleive with all your heart..thou mayest...He said he beleived...then Philip took him down into the water and baptized him....next

Ricko1 · Feb 7, 2014

Notice Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3 vs 3 & 5 " Ye must be Born Again of the WATER and SPIRIT.
Later..Jesus gets JOHN to Water Baptize him. John tried to refuse, telling Jesus he needed to be baptized by him! The Lord told John " Suffer it not, to fulfill all righteousness" meaning...I want it done exactly.as stated. Then the Second part....The Holy Ghost came upon him as a Symbol in the form of a dove came upon him..Yes it's all right there...Water and Spirit Baptism like Jesus said to Nicodemus..and as Peter told them at the first.Christian Church.Service in Acts chapter 2.

LysanderShapiro · Feb 7, 2014

Ricko1 said:
Here is a verse that shows you must be Baptized after you first beleive....Acts 8 verses 36-38..... Apostle Philip was witnessing to the Eunich...." If you beleive with all your heart..thou mayest...He said he beleived...then Philip took him down into the water and baptized him....next

I'm glad you brought up this verse because it has been the focal point of many an important discussion about baptism and who should be baptized.

Obviously, there is no passage in scripture that explicitly talks about anyone under the age of reason being baptized. Having said that -- as you know -- there are passages that talk about whole households being baptized (Acts 16:15, 1 Corinthians 1:16), and certainly raises the possibility (some might argue probability) that there were infants or people below the age of reason being baptized.

One passage that holds ground in the case of infant baptism for those coming from a Scripture-Only position is in Colossians 2:8-15 where it talks about how we have received the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism. Circumcision, of course, is the Jewish ritual of initiation the way Baptism is the Christian ritual of initiation, and Paul links the two. Because of that link, circumcision provides a model for us that can help inform our understanding of how baptism is supposed to work.

If it's the Christian equivalent to circumcision, then we ought to look at how circumcision is administered...it could be administered to adult converts to Judaism who had to have personal faith in the God of Israel, but it could also be given to the infants of those who were Hebrews so that they could share in the blessings of God's covenant -- even before they had a concious understanding. Consequently, the same thing happened with baptism; we can either embrace the Christian faith as adults -- with personal faith in Christ and be baptized -- or we can be baptized as children of believers so that we might share in the New Covenant and its blessings, even before we can understand those. This is why, for instance, in Catholicism, while an infant may be baptized, adults and teenagers aren't baptized instantly because they can, like the Jewish adults, hold a personal faith in Jesus. This is why teens and adults go through RCIC and RCIA before baptism and profess their faith first.

That's why the early Church fathers had an understanding of infant baptism. In fact, there was even a council in the mid 3rd century to address the question of whether you should wait until the 8th day after birth to baptize a baby (this being because circumcision was performed 8 days after birth). However, the reason why they concluded that one shouldn't wait 8 days is because of the infant mortality rate was high -- so they concluded to baptize as soon as possible (though today's infant mortality isn't what it used to be).

Excellent in pointing out that verse though -- thumbs up to you, sir (y)

Ricko1 · Feb 7, 2014

Here is the one verse that kills any belief in Infant or Baby Baptism...Ready?

Mark 16 v 16 Jesus said:
" He that BELIEVES and is Baptized shall be saved........."

Question: Can an Infant or Newborn " Beleive"? Nada...No way. Baby Baptism is nothing more then a man made tradition. I was Catholic, I was baptized when I was 3 weeks old. It is a cute little tradition that makes a family all warm and fuzzy....but that baby one day will grow up and have to Repent and go through the written way it has to be done.

God is not like some Courtroom Judges here on Earth whereby a person can plea- bargain their way out of a harsh sentance. No amount of Crying, pleading or anything else can a person plead with The Lord will get anyone off. For further proof just read what transpires at the White Throne Judgement..Judgement day
Revelation: Revelation 20 v 11-15

LysanderShapiro · Feb 8, 2014

Ricko1 said:
Here is the one verse that kills any belief in Infant or Baby Baptism...Ready?

Mark 16 v 16 Jesus said:
" He that BELIEVES and is Baptized shall be saved........."

Question: Can an Infant or Newborn " Beleive"? Nada...No way. Baby Baptism is nothing more then a man made tradition. I was Catholic, I was baptized when I was 3 weeks old. It is a cute little tradition that makes a family all warm and fuzzy....but that baby one day will grow up and have to Repent and go through the written way it has to be done.

God is not like some Courtroom Judges here on Earth whereby a person can plea- bargain their way out of a harsh sentance. No amount of Crying, pleading or anything else can a person plead with The Lord will get anyone off. For further proof just read what transpires at the White Throne Judgement..Judgement day
Revelation: Revelation 20 v 11-15

How does this verse serve as proof or even evidence that infant Baptism is a tradition of man?

Ricko1 · Feb 8, 2014

Circumcision in the OT was the Forerunner of NT Repentance and Water Baptism...Your heart receives Circumcision now.

LysanderShapiro · Feb 8, 2014

Ricko1 said:
Circumcision in the OT was the Forerunner of NT Repentance and Water Baptism...Your heart receives Circumcision now.

Rick01, I ask this with all sincerity and respect, where did you get this information?

Ricko1 · Feb 8, 2014

LysanderShapiro said:
Rick01, I ask this with all sincerity and respect, where did you get this information?

Revealed to me through His Spirit and cross checking verses..

LysanderShapiro · Feb 8, 2014

Ricko1 said:
Revealed to me through His Spirit and cross checking verses..

But if the Holy Spirit revealed something different to me through prayer, study, and extensive Biblical research...does this mean the Holy Spirit intends to lead to confusion or could it mean one of us is wrong? And if one of us is wrong, how do we figure out which one it is?

Ricko1 · Feb 8, 2014

LysanderShapiro said:
But if the Holy Spirit revealed something different to me through prayer, study, and extensive Biblical research...does this mean the Holy Spirit intends to lead to confusion or could it mean one of us is wrong? And if one of us is wrong, how do we figure out which one it is?

What I said is well known throughout Christianity. Do you believe all scripture is literal? I don' t ...Scripture is made up of Types and Shadows, Dual And Hidden meanings, Literal meanings.

Example: Jesus taught in Matthew 28 v 19 to " Go Forth, Baptizing in THE NAME of The Father, Son, And Holy Ghost" yet when the Apostles carried out Water Baptism in Book of Acts they all Baptized every person in The Name of Jesus Christ, or Lord Jesus, or simply The Lord. Here are all the verses where this is mentioned;
(1) Acts 2 v 38
(2) Acts 8 v 16
(3) Acts 10 v 48
(4) Acts 19 v 5

Now go find one, just one verse where anyone was ever Baptized in The " Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Just one. Because what you let go over your head everything mentioned in the Bible does not mean it LITERALLY.

Know why Everybody was Baptized in Jesus' Name?
Two Reasons: (1) Colossians 3 v 17 And whatsoever YOU DO in Word or DEED do ALL in The Name of The Lord Jesus, giving Thanks to God and The Father by him.

(2) Jesus is the name of the Father......John 5 v 43

Jesus is the Name of The Son....MATTHEW 1 V 25

Jesus is the Name of The Holy Ghost....John 14 v 26

Now you see how every verse is not literal in meaning. The Apostles even asked Jesus Why He Spoke To Some People In parables..." Because hearing, they hear not, and seeing, they see not, neither do they understand"

What I revealed to you about circumcision I will stand on it. or you can invest in a Strong' s Exhaustive concordance and read every verse on Circumcision and it will back up that in the NT " Circumsision" means a person's heart after they get converted the bible taught way....check it out then post next week. I have a business to run, must get some shut eye 4 AM comes early. God Bless.

What Does Baptism Mean To You

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