What does Paul admonish about women not permitted to teach mean to us today then?

[YeshuaFan]

Would that refer to just teaching as a spiritual authority in local churches as a pastor or elder? Not to teach a Sunday school or children's church or Youth group? Not as as a cell group leader?
Know that women have taught as missionaries and are on staff at bible colleges and Universities, so how would this principle apply for today then?

 

[BibleLover]

Would that refer to just teaching as a spiritual authority in local churches as a pastor or elder? Not to teach a Sunday school or children's church or Youth group? Not as as a cell group leader?
Know that women have taught as missionaries and are on staff at bible colleges and Universities, so how would this principle apply for today then?

This is a subject that should be approached with discernment. Paul was addressing a culture in which wives were their husband's property, and unmarried daughters were their father's property. At that time women were just one rung above slaves on the social ladder.

 

[Major]

This is a subject that should be approached with discernment. Paul was addressing a culture in which wives were their husband's property, and unmarried daughters were their father's property. At that time women were just one rung above slaves on the social ladder.

In addition to all of that, women were very poorly educated if at all.

It has been said of those times that a good mule was more important than a wife.

 

[Major]

Would that refer to just teaching as a spiritual authority in local churches as a pastor or elder? Not to teach a Sunday school or children's church or Youth group? Not as as a cell group leader?
Know that women have taught as missionaries and are on staff at bible colleges and Universities, so how would this principle apply for today then?

1 Timothy 2:12.......
"“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.”

I have in the past had two ladies teach adult Bible study classes. Both of these ladies announced on a regular basis that if there was a man who was able and qualified to teach their class, they were welcome to do so. In each case NO man wanted the job.

Fact.......If it was not for women in the church to teach the young people, there would be no teaching done at all!

 

[YeshuaFan]

1 Timothy 2:12.......
"“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.”

I have in the past had two ladies teach adult Bible study classes. Both of these ladies announced on a regular basis that if there was a man who was able and qualified to teach their class, they were welcome to do so. In each case NO man wanted the job.

Fact.......If it was not for women in the church to teach the young people, there would be no teaching done at all!

I heard a female pastor state only reason she became the Pastor was that no man stepped forward to lead the church, but think that per scrip[tures Spiritual leadership such as Pastors and Elders are to be Men

 

[YeshuaFan]

This is a subject that should be approached with discernment. Paul was addressing a culture in which wives were their husband's property, and unmarried daughters were their father's property. At that time women were just one rung above slaves on the social ladder.

Yes, but think that Principle is one given to all times, not to that specific culture and time

 

[bobinfaith]

What does Paul admonish about women not permitted to teach mean to us today then?​

Would that refer to just teaching as a spiritual authority in local churches as a pastor or elder? Not to teach a Sunday school or children's church or Youth group? Not as as a cell group leader? Know that women have taught as missionaries and are on staff at bible colleges and Universities, so how would this principle apply for today then?

Good afternoon, Yeshua;

The Bible does not disclose any woman appointed as a Pastor. God had given women many other specific roles;

Deborah was the first woman judge, leading Israel in Judges 4.

Naomi led Ruth who went from a Moabite to a woman of the True God in the book of Ruth.

Mary was conceived as the mother of Jesus and also led her sons James and Jude to Christianity (though James and Jude are not mentioned in Acts 1:14.)

Mary Magdalene was the first human to see Christ after His Resurrection in the Gospels, Matthew 28:9 (Mary Magdalene and the other Mary,) Mark 16:9, Luke:24:1-9 (Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James,) and John 20:1-18.

Phoebe, a servant (deaconess) who supported Paul in the city of Cenchreae in Romans 16:1-2.

There are many other women that God appointed specific roles.

In these times I have spoken to, traveled and witnessed to women on short and long term missionaries, have taught Children's Ministry and Youth Groups, served as deaconesses, and only one professor (a former RN at UCSF) that I can remember taught my Christian Counseling class at seminary.

So how would this principle apply for today then? I don't know, but from my experience Christian teaching, ministering and witnessing to the lost comes in a large variance. The same principle was and is applied to the women (and more) in the Old, New Testaments and today's Christian leadership.

I still stand that women did not serve as Pastors in the Bible and I have never ordained a woman to serve in my capacity as Senior Pastor.

God bless you all.

Bob

 

[BibleLover]

Yes, but think that Principle is one given to all times, not to that specific culture and time

Did you come by that view through application of grammatical-historical hermeneutics or is that just your own personal view of Scripture?

 

[forgiven61]

Would that refer to just teaching as a spiritual authority in local churches as a pastor or elder? Not to teach a Sunday school or children's church or Youth group? Not as as a cell group leader?
Know that women have taught as missionaries and are on staff at bible colleges and Universities, so how would this principle apply for today then?

if more men would step up we wouldn't have to use the women .. i have no issue with women teaching adult or cHILDREN. TEACHING IS A GIFT and i dont see that gift just limited to men... as per women preaching once again men step up.. i have let God sort that out ..if the woman preacher preaching is in vain that work will burn up.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Did you come by that view through application of grammatical-historical hermeneutics or is that just your own personal view of Scripture?

Thru the the Greek NT teach that renders it clearly that only men are called by God to be spiritual heads/overseers over the local assembly

 

[YeshuaFan]

What does Paul admonish about women not permitted to teach mean to us today then?​

Good afternoon, Yeshua;

The Bible does not disclose any woman appointed as a Pastor. God had given women many other specific roles;

Deborah was the first woman judge, leading Israel in Judges 4.

Naomi led Ruth who went from a Moabite to a woman of the True God in the book of Ruth.

Mary was conceived as the mother of Jesus and also led her sons James and Jude to Christianity (though James and Jude are not mentioned in Acts 1:14.)

Mary Magdalene was the first human to see Christ after His Resurrection in the Gospels, Matthew 28:9 (Mary Magdalene and the other Mary,) Mark 16:9, Luke:24:1-9 (Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James,) and John 20:1-18.

Phoebe, a servant (deaconess) who supported Paul in the city of Cenchreae in Romans 16:1-2.

There are many other women that God appointed specific roles.

In these times I have spoken to, traveled and witnessed to women on short and long term missionaries, have taught Children's Ministry and Youth Groups, served as deaconesses, and only one professor (a former RN at UCSF) that I can remember taught my Christian Counseling class at seminary.

So how would this principle apply for today then? I don't know, but from my experience Christian teaching, ministering and witnessing to the lost comes in a large variance. The same principle was and is applied to the women (and more) in the Old, New Testaments and today's Christian leadership.

I still stand that women did not serve as Pastors in the Bible and I have never ordained a woman to serve in my capacity as Senior Pastor.

God bless you all.

Bob

Agree that God had ordained a principle of Male leadership/headship in spiritual authority in local churches, but does not mean women are inferior to men in any fashion, just have different roles to fulfill

 

[Major]

I heard a female pastor state only reason she became the Pastor was that no man stepped forward to lead the church, but think that per scrip[tures Spiritual leadership such as Pastors and Elders are to be Men

It does not matter in the least what the excuse is for a woman to think she can be an ordained Pastor......it is against the Word of God.

 

[YeshuaFan]

It does not matter in the least what the excuse is for a woman to think she can be an ordained Pastor......it is against the Word of God.

Think what helped her was that her Father started the church and was main Pastor for decades before stepping down for his daughter, but agree with you the Elder Board should have vetoed that deal

 

[Yesua888]

Yes, but think that Principle is one given to all times, not to that specific culture and time

A very "debatable" subject indeedy : )

 

[Major]

Think what helped her was that her Father started the church and was main Pastor for decades before stepping down for his daughter, but agree with you the Elder Board should have vetoed that deal

Again........It does not matter in the least what the situation is or was. It is not Biblical!

Her father in that case did not teach his daughter correctly and he also did not teach his congregation correctly either.

IN all of my career, I never had one single woman approach me or the church requesting to be or asking information about being a deacon. They knew what the Bible said so they knew that there was no reason to ask.

 

[BibleLover]

Again........It does not matter in the least what the situation is or was. It is not Biblical!

Her father in that case did not teach his daughter correctly and he also did not teach his congregation correctly either.

IN all of my career, I never had one single woman approach me or the church requesting to be or asking information about being a deacon. They knew what the Bible said so they knew that there was no reason to ask.

Check Romans 16:1-2 in the Greek. Phoebe is called a deaconess.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Again........It does not matter in the least what the situation is or was. It is not Biblical!

Her father in that case did not teach his daughter correctly and he also did not teach his congregation correctly either.

IN all of my career, I never had one single woman approach me or the church requesting to be or asking information about being a deacon. They knew what the Bible said so they knew that there was no reason to ask.

Think that church being a Charismatic church made them less sticking to biblical guidelines, and more if the person was "anointed" to be a Pastor

 

[YeshuaFan]

A very "debatable" subject indeedy : )

Indeed, as the issue of ordaining woman as pastors and being Elders have spilt bodies in the Churches

 

[Major]

Think that church being a Charismatic church made them less sticking to biblical guidelines, and more if the person was "anointed" to be a Pastor

Absolutely the point brother.

Not only the Pentecostals but many others place too much emphasis on the anointing.

Now, before someone argues that point, may I say that It is not unusual to hear pastors, good ones and the bad ones, the young and the old, the liberal and the conservative claim to have a special anointing from God. This anointing allows them to hold a God-ordained authority amidst a group of believers and to give a greater blessing to their opinion.
That idea and teaching IS NOT BIBLICAL!
The truth is that those serving as pastors or teachers are on the same spiritual standing with God as every other member of the church.

A pastor cannot forgive sins. He does not have a unique communication with God. He does not have a secret source of knowledge not accessible to every other member. He is not your mediator to God in any way.

He does not have a gift for holiness, nor does he have more resistance to the flesh. He can be wrong. He needs support. He can fail.

Listen everyone.....The Bible literally says that God called all men to do his will in 1 Tim. 2:4, and 1 Thess. 4:3.

The fact is that all over this land there are pastors who teach that it is not enough to desire you must be supernaturally anointed. This is job security. The honest ones will admit that they do not hear God’s voice or feel the anointing but actully study the Word of God.

The rest may claim on some level that they have a higher gift of knowledge, wisdom, or leadership based on the anointing.

The anointing of the Holy Ghost described by John was part of the supernatural knowledge provided for Israel under the New Testament and that is seen in Jn. 14:6, Mk. 13:11 and Acts 2:4.

The literal Bible fact is that Today, every member of the body has access to God’s words in the Bible and is the temple of the Holy Ghost. Instead of waiting for an anointing we must all “study to show ourselves approved”. (2 Tim. 2:15).

 

[YeshuaFan]

Absolutely the point brother.

Not only the Pentecostals but many others place too much emphasis on the anointing.

Now, before someone argues that point, may I say that It is not unusual to hear pastors, good ones and the bad ones, the young and the old, the liberal and the conservative claim to have a special anointing from God. This anointing allows them to hold a God-ordained authority amidst a group of believers and to give a greater blessing to their opinion.
That idea and teaching IS NOT BIBLICAL!
The truth is that those serving as pastors or teachers are on the same spiritual standing with God as every other member of the church.

A pastor cannot forgive sins. He does not have a unique communication with God. He does not have a secret source of knowledge not accessible to every other member. He is not your mediator to God in any way.

He does not have a gift for holiness, nor does he have more resistance to the flesh. He can be wrong. He needs support. He can fail.

Listen everyone.....The Bible literally says that God called all men to do his will in 1 Tim. 2:4, and 1 Thess. 4:3.

The fact is that all over this land there are pastors who teach that it is not enough to desire you must be supernaturally anointed. This is job security. The honest ones will admit that they do not hear God’s voice or feel the anointing but actully study the Word of God.

The rest may claim on some level that they have a higher gift of knowledge, wisdom, or leadership based on the anointing.

The anointing of the Holy Ghost described by John was part of the supernatural knowledge provided for Israel under the New Testament and that is seen in Jn. 14:6, Mk. 13:11 and Acts 2:4.

The literal Bible fact is that Today, every member of the body has access to God’s words in the Bible and is the temple of the Holy Ghost. Instead of waiting for an anointing we must all “study to show ourselves approved”. (2 Tim. 2:15).

There seems to be a clear difference among the various charismatic churches on this issue, as ther AOG once was part of does have Seminary and Pastoral degree and education recommended, while the Charismatics seem to frown upon higher education, as just needs to have that :anointing"