I am sure glad we can re-READ what is written. I think I took this the wrong way the first time through.
So now I say yes Lord I will slow down and stop doing more then one thing at a time.
My apologies and blessing sir!
FCJ
What exactly is wrong with being a church hopper?
- Thread starter autumn oddity
- Start date
So now I say yes Lord I will slow down and stop doing more then one thing at a time.
My apologies and blessing sir!
FCJ
When I listed that as no.1 I didn't mean it was THE number one issue...but it can be an issue. Both 1st and 2nd Timothy give the qualifications of a pastor/elder, and the ability to teach is clearly there. 1st Corinthians shares that the Lord gifts people, and the gift of teaching is one. This gifting and equipping comes from the Lord by means of the Holy Spirit. Every member of the body has their gifting and their place to serve. A man may be honest as he can be, and he may love the Lord sincerely, but not be able to preach to save his life...and that is okay. I'm not talking about error, preaching bad doctrine or stepping on toes or having a certain style or anything like that, but the ability to equip and exhort from and through the word of God. I'm talking about being able to understand them...a message that explains the Scriptures in an understandable way without rambling, how to apply it, and then exhorting the hearer to live out the word. I have seen folks leave a church because the preacher never made sense from the pulpit...and his pastoral ministry was as chaotic as the messages. I have seen confusing, chaotic, incoherent "sermons" that were blamed on the Holy Spirit, but from what I read in the New Testament, the Lord is not the author of confusion. The Spirit of the Lord will make the Spirit-inspired word clear through a spiritually gifted person. Yes, chaotic ministers do cause various people to leave a church.
Jesus spoke nothing but pure, Spirit inspired words (being the word made flesh) yet He was rejected. He had nothing but edifying messages regardless of whether or not anyone wanted to hear it. Paul wrote that all in Asia had forsaken him, but that did not mean his message was not edifying. The prophets were rejected yet their messages were edifying. Just because the word of God is "out of season" doesn't mean it isn't right or edifying. I have been in ministry for over 20 years, and have known and worked with a few ministers, and you cannot blame poor, ungifted preaching and chaotic ministry on the congregation.
Jesus spoke nothing but pure, Spirit inspired words (being the word made flesh) yet He was rejected. He had nothing but edifying messages regardless of whether or not anyone wanted to hear it. Paul wrote that all in Asia had forsaken him, but that did not mean his message was not edifying. The prophets were rejected yet their messages were edifying. Just because the word of God is "out of season" doesn't mean it isn't right or edifying. I have been in ministry for over 20 years, and have known and worked with a few ministers, and you cannot blame poor, ungifted preaching and chaotic ministry on the congregation.
I agree with you brother.
Some men are simply not called to preach the Word of God. They may have a desire to do so but if God has not gifted them with the ability to preach then they will never be successful.
I do not know about you, however, I do suspect that you will agree with me, in that when a man has the calling of God to preach, that man then will also want to attend a school of higher learning so that he can learn the deeper things of the Scriptures so that he will be equipped to teach others.
Being gifted by God to preach does not automatically mean that the person called has just been imputed all the truth of the Scriptures. It takes time to study, learn and know what to say as well as how to say it correctly.
IMO, one of the reasons for so much false doctrine in the Christian world today is due to the fact that a lot of people never learned Bible truth but instead just made up what they liked as time passed them by.
If you do not believe that, simply go and read some of the comments on "Christian Forum" web sites.
It is absolutely astounding what is going on it Christianity today as accepted Bible doctrine when in fact it is more like Anti-Christ theology right out of the pit of hell.
Then there are some as I believe you will admit, just do it because they saw a way to make a dollar.
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Sorry If I'm misunderstanding this, but if a preacher's ability to preach can be swayed by the desires of the congregation, then he should not be preaching. Regardless of the congregation, the message of the gospel should always be the same. On the same hand, you can have plenty of people who do not have ears to hear, but the message will still edify the body if the preacher does so obediently towards the word of God.
Some pastors have actually allow the influence of some members for various reasons. They soon end up with a cold or dead church with no growth.
This I believe is what she is saying
Blessings
FCJ
Oh it's all good. I'm just learning about this myself. And realizing that there is more to the spirit realm than we know or understand.
I believe that there are a lot of good preachers who don't realize that they are being swayed by the congregation, because many have not been taught or don't believe what is really happening in the spiritual realm.
Do you ever wonder why there are some who are blessed with a service and many who walk away either discouraged or not built up?
There are a lot of preachers who are not fully relying on the Holy Spirit. They don't know they are supposed to, because they have been taught how to study and proper theological interpretation, and it's all done in the natural realm. I'm not saying anything is wrong with schooling, but a lot of pastors are learning to rely more on the natural realm than the spiritual. A lot are not understanding how to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit, and allow Him to lead them in the preaching and/or worship of the service.
And there are a lot who, because their congregation is not tithing, they are not financially supported and don't have the time to pray, and listen for the Holy Spirit to help them know what to preach, because they have to work another job.
Way to many factors involved in one ministering to others, to say who is right or wrong or to even judge. Sometimes you are right that one was not called to preach. But there is a lot not being taught, because it's not believed at the place they went to school.
Hope this was more clear.
Blessings
You are absolutely correct my brother!
There are many people in the world that have their own opinions on what kind of preaching they desire, but the real question is what kind of preaching does God want? There are many in the religious world who are not that concerned about wanting to know how God wants it done because we live in time where people just want feel good about the message they hear and they don’t want to hear how they need to change things in their lives to be right with God. Of course, this is not a new problem because this idea has always been around.
Isaiah 30:8 .........
"Now go, write it before them on a tablet, And note it on a scroll, That it may be for time to come, Forever and ever: That this is a rebellious people, Lying children, Children who will not hear the law of the LORD; Who say to the seers, "Do not see," And to the prophets, "Do not prophesy to us right things; Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits. Get out of the way, Turn aside from the path, Cause the Holy One of Israel To cease from before us."
You are correct in many ways. I would however point out that in the end, it is the responsibility of the person to know when he is being taught heresy or false teaching. We can not blame our failure to understand the Scriptures on those who teach falsely.
The Holy Spirit is active in every believer and a man who hears a false teaching can and should know when to accept it or challenge it or simply change to another college or seminary.
I can tell you as a testimony that when I was in a Presbyterian Seminary, the Rapture, among other doctines was never discussed. I was brought up in a Christian, church environment and heard sermon after sermon on the Rapture but now all of a sudden these professors of religion went out of their way to disprove this teaching. It gave me goose bumps and nights of sleeplessness because in my heart I knew what they were saying was Biblically wrong. That was the Holy Spirit moving in my heart without a doubt. It was incumbent then on me to either accept their error or go to another seminary which is exactly what I did.
Proverbs 16:9
In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps.
John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.
I have read all of these posts and as a mature Christian, these days, I allow the Holy spirit to tell me which church I should be in. When I move to a new area and am looking for a new church I first of all pray that God will show me which church I should be at. I then visit one church at a time (each Sunday) till I feel the Holy Spirit telling me that this is the one. It works every time and is unmistakable. This allows me to find a church where the Holy Spirit wants me to be at and where the Spirit is active as well; And the life God is manifesting. This makes going to church a pleasure and something I genuinely look forward too each week. Sometimes I have to visit many churches before the right one is revealed but this too is an exciting adventure, as you never know what you're going to experience and who you're going to meet. It also gives you a good idea of what the churches in the area are like.
However, as a new christian no one pointed this out to me but instead I allowed myself to be discipled by a more mature Christian who was the one who actually lead me to Christ and I stay put in their church while I learned all the basics etc, eventually I felt like I wanted to spread my wings as I found the churches annual cycle of teaching was becoming a little repetitive and that I wasn't growing and learning as much as I wanted too. In fact I actually dropped out of church altogether for a while because I didn't want to become resentful to God because of having to feel like I was forcing myself to carry on going to church. If only someone had of said that I should perhaps try other churches I might I not dropped out all together? Eventually however the spiritual hunger kicked in and I just started going to different churches in the hope I might find something that would satisfy this need. This was when I began to become aware of the Holy Spirit's leading when visiting new churches. I made a few mistakes along the way but I soon learned from these and got the hang of it.
However, I would only recommended this practice to Christians who are sensitive to the Holy Spirits voice and at least can recognise the difference between when it is the Holy Spirit speaking rather than Jesus or God the Father speaking.
I hope you find the church God wants you to be with soon and begin to enjoy the search for where this will be. God wants you to enjoy His plan He has for you just as He is enjoying you. If you have any questions I would be happy to answer them.
God bless
In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps.
John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.
I have read all of these posts and as a mature Christian, these days, I allow the Holy spirit to tell me which church I should be in. When I move to a new area and am looking for a new church I first of all pray that God will show me which church I should be at. I then visit one church at a time (each Sunday) till I feel the Holy Spirit telling me that this is the one. It works every time and is unmistakable. This allows me to find a church where the Holy Spirit wants me to be at and where the Spirit is active as well; And the life God is manifesting. This makes going to church a pleasure and something I genuinely look forward too each week. Sometimes I have to visit many churches before the right one is revealed but this too is an exciting adventure, as you never know what you're going to experience and who you're going to meet. It also gives you a good idea of what the churches in the area are like.
However, as a new christian no one pointed this out to me but instead I allowed myself to be discipled by a more mature Christian who was the one who actually lead me to Christ and I stay put in their church while I learned all the basics etc, eventually I felt like I wanted to spread my wings as I found the churches annual cycle of teaching was becoming a little repetitive and that I wasn't growing and learning as much as I wanted too. In fact I actually dropped out of church altogether for a while because I didn't want to become resentful to God because of having to feel like I was forcing myself to carry on going to church. If only someone had of said that I should perhaps try other churches I might I not dropped out all together? Eventually however the spiritual hunger kicked in and I just started going to different churches in the hope I might find something that would satisfy this need. This was when I began to become aware of the Holy Spirit's leading when visiting new churches. I made a few mistakes along the way but I soon learned from these and got the hang of it.
However, I would only recommended this practice to Christians who are sensitive to the Holy Spirits voice and at least can recognise the difference between when it is the Holy Spirit speaking rather than Jesus or God the Father speaking.
I hope you find the church God wants you to be with soon and begin to enjoy the search for where this will be. God wants you to enjoy His plan He has for you just as He is enjoying you. If you have any questions I would be happy to answer them.
God bless
Your gonna have to explain this one.
As a mature Christian as you said, why would you need to continue bouncing around waiting for the Holy Spirit to say this one? Would not a Mature Christian such as yourself be Spirit Lead and here the Father before you began church fitting?
Blessings
FCJ
That happens too but in my experience only when He has a specific task to accomplish at a given church. However, when finding a church to stay with indefinitely then He lets me bounce about for a bit but this is because I'm finite and it's for my benefit so that I can gain knowledge of other churches in the area and to get to know some of the Christians in that area. This allows me to gain better knowledge of the spiritual 'landscape' of an area so that I can pray more specifically over that area in regards to spiritual warfare and in general too. Also I think it's because God knows I enjoy it.
I notice you say:
"just simply go where God tells you"
And
"we are to be planted in a church of His choice and stay planted Until He Himself up roots you and moves you."
Could you please explain how you hear God 'tell' you where to go and how God 'uproots' you. I'm interested to know how God does this with yourself?
I notice you say:
"just simply go where God tells you"
And
"we are to be planted in a church of His choice and stay planted Until He Himself up roots you and moves you."
Could you please explain how you hear God 'tell' you where to go and how God 'uproots' you. I'm interested to know how God does this with yourself?
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Simple.....Prayer and Fellowship with the Father. Being Spirit lead is key.
You will learn to hear the Father's voice.
Not talking audible but from within.
When He places you in a church you stay there no matter until He Leads you to leave.
Now then please explain to me this
However, I would only recommended this practice to Christians who are sensitive to the Holy Spirits voice and at least can recognise the difference between when it is the Holy Spirit speaking rather than Jesus or God the Father speaking.
Thanks and blessings
FCJ
If you haven't heard the audible voice of God or Jesus (or even the Holy Spirit which is very rare in my experience) then you are just feeling the leading of the Holy Spirit from within, as you say. Your mind is then interpreting the Holy Spirits prompting/leading/feeling into an understanding that can then be put into words. This is the most common way the Triune God speaks to us. If you wish to hear Him audibly then you'll need to really ask Him and pray and read His word a lot. Eventually you can distinguish between the three of their voices. They each have very distinctive voices both audibly and non-audibly. They are very real, more real in many ways than even other people.
Greetings,
I am aware of how they speak.
I know the difference between a prompting and conviction and being lead and given utterance and so forth.
Have a wonderful day
Blessings
FCJ
I suppose my point is and to answer the OP 'What exactly is wrong with being a church hopper?' Is that there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is God who is making them do the hopping. I mean if everyone was hopping from church to church then that would be chaos but equally if no one was hopping and we were all static then the church would be stagnant. The churches need to allow people to hop for many reasons and the main reason should be because God wants Christians to move about so that they can grow spiritually as individuals and to also help other Christian's to become enriched by the new presence of Christians coming to a church. This is all part of a larger 'interconnectivity' that God is over seeing which allows the real body of Christ to grow as well.
So you feel God leads people to church hop as opposed to just letting them know?
Interesting
So God's plan is for us to church hop so we can grow spiritually ?
Interesting?
Perhaps what would be helpful is to define the words being used; 'hop', 'up root' and 'bounce' so that we know which are meant to be bad and good types of 'moving church'.
However, what the OP asked (What exactly is wrong with being a church hopper?) which taken in the context of what they said later;
"Yeah mine wasn't 5hat great either... I didn't want to leave bc it was convient meaning I could walk there..but I hate how I was being treated ...it didn't get any better so I had to go. Once I find a better church ill definitely stay. Thanks for the reply."
Could easily be taken that their reason to leave is not Spirit lead but the important thing here is that Autumn says she has left and I would say the best thing at the moment is to let Autumn know that moving churches is not always bad, as some have lead her to think, but actually Christians moving to other church can be part of Gods plans and to encourage her to find another church asap rather than leaving it to a later date. Autumn is only 25 and although I don't know how long she has been a Christian it can't be that long and from her response above it shows that she may not have that deep sensitivity to the Spirit yet, that usually comes with being more mature in Christ. However, for all we know God could have created that situation to 'up root' her so that she can find the church He really wants her to be at?
However, what the OP asked (What exactly is wrong with being a church hopper?) which taken in the context of what they said later;
"Yeah mine wasn't 5hat great either... I didn't want to leave bc it was convient meaning I could walk there..but I hate how I was being treated ...it didn't get any better so I had to go. Once I find a better church ill definitely stay. Thanks for the reply."
Could easily be taken that their reason to leave is not Spirit lead but the important thing here is that Autumn says she has left and I would say the best thing at the moment is to let Autumn know that moving churches is not always bad, as some have lead her to think, but actually Christians moving to other church can be part of Gods plans and to encourage her to find another church asap rather than leaving it to a later date. Autumn is only 25 and although I don't know how long she has been a Christian it can't be that long and from her response above it shows that she may not have that deep sensitivity to the Spirit yet, that usually comes with being more mature in Christ. However, for all we know God could have created that situation to 'up root' her so that she can find the church He really wants her to be at?
Christian Guy
Could you use the reply button when posting. This will make it easier to follow what you are referring to.
You move around a lot from reply to reply.
This makes it hard for others to know exactly what you are replying to.
Remember it is written we only know in part. So this means there is some we don't know. It's what we don't know that is as wholes in our doctrine.
Blessings
FCJ
Could you use the reply button when posting. This will make it easier to follow what you are referring to.
You move around a lot from reply to reply.
This makes it hard for others to know exactly what you are replying to.
Remember it is written we only know in part. So this means there is some we don't know. It's what we don't know that is as wholes in our doctrine.
Blessings
FCJ
Ahhr yes the reply button, thanks .
What do you mean here: "It's what we don't know that is as wholes in our doctrine."