What Is Marriage?

[Prim90]

What Is Marriage?

Good morning, Prim90;

I took your post and red-lighted and blue-lighted and will answer straight up according to what you wrote.

Without disrespecting the good Reverend Mick, the way you described your meeting with him, he has his own method of conducting premarital sessions or counseling with engaged couples. Many ministers will conduct class curriculums using text books on marriage and the Bible that can lasts weeks and months prior to the wedding day.

It seems Sweet One met the Reverend with an agenda by his remarks,"me (meaning Prim90) had already cost him 10 cows 50 sheep and 200 goats Never mind your bloody premarital chit chats," and "Now when be the earliest date you can book our marriage?"

(I don't know if what you posted is just an example, or if this was really you and your man.)

It seems Sweet One wanted to put all that God stuff aside and "book" the wedding day without the Creator involved. We don't marry on our terms, Prim90, we don't approach the Church as community or separatist minded, but fully God minded when it comes to marriage.

Stay with me here. Let's discuss God's creation of marriage and how we should receive it.

My approach as a minister is this; Getting married is already a life challenge between two couples in love, and committing a relational lifetime together. Since God is the Creator of marriage, why not pay heed to His counsel and direction, all right there in the Bible? I take that into consideration when conducting premarital sessions; it's about the couple getting married and opening up during these sessions. How they will grow together in all facets of life? How would they respond to views on their faith in Christ, circumstances when the romance goes up and down, job careers, raising children, finances, vision and plans. I also provide during each session God's Word / Scriptures for every life situation including obedience and sin.

Being married 39 years this June 1, I get asked to share my experiences in certain areas. I take that as a tool of testimony and how the Gospel ties in our successes and failures.

After several weeks, (or less weeks) depending in this case you and Sweet One, God gives me the Word on what needs to be discussed if I'm going to officiate your wedding. Unfortunately, there were two marriages in the past that ended in divorce and other sessions when I didn't feel the couple was ready and needed more time. But I had to let them know they are more than welcome to seek another minister who will marry them instead of me.

I'm marrying a young couple on May 25th. He is 28 and she 27. They have been submissive to the several weeks of sessions, opening up to me and each other with their Bibles in hand, and in my discernment they are very happy, excited and ready to exchange I do's.

Like I posted earlier, other ministers have their methods of premarital sessions or counseling. What I shared are mine and for the most part have worked. But this takes prayer for each couple that I'm going to marry. The rest I leave to God.

God bless you, Prim90.

Bob me not be so sure about that. The Bible certainly says do not to be yoked with unbelievers. As to premarital lessons from my experience they only ever be to educate one on the sanctity of marriage not to determine ones marriage by the Reverend. And certainly not a determining factor of whether people choose or not choose to do the premarital studies at all. It be a matter of choice. The premarital studies were only ever meant to be guide to the meaning of marriage . If it were a atheist-Christian or Muslim -Christian Union there would be grounds for great concern. But generally when both abide under the Christian banner it be merely the ministers duty to consummate the marriage vows given by God. it certainly not be the ministers job to play mediator in determining those who claim to be Christian under the universal Christian banner, unless there be contradicting faiths or blatant unbelief hostile to the Christian faith. You must also consider the future offspring of what faith the children shall inherit should the couple be offended by the refusal and that they choose no Christian at all faith for their future children.

Marriage be a universal concept given by God it be for the couple to determine their compatibility of their future marriage be that Yay or Ney and it not so much the ministers responsibility to determine unless there be reasons from the above mentioned examples. . There be many reasons for divorce but the reality be it comes down to the two people before God in whether they make their marriage a paradise or make it a living hell. You merely consummate the witness of marriage as verification of Gods given command. Nothing more..I sure our Christian religions outlook on marriage may continue to differ . But still God bless to the separatist Bob : )

 

[bobinfaith]

Bob me not be so sure about that. The Bible certainly says do not to be yoked with unbelievers. As to premarital lessons from my experience they only ever be to educate one on the sanctity of marriage not to determine ones marriage by the Reverend. And certainly not a determining factor of whether people choose or not choose to do the premarital studies at all. It be a matter of choice. The premarital studies were only ever meant to be guide to the meaning of marriage . If it were a atheist-Christian or Muslim -Christian Union there would be grounds for great concern. But generally when both abide under the Christian banner it be merely the ministers duty to consummate the marriage vows given by God. it certainly not be the ministers job to play mediator in determining those who claim to be Christian under the universal Christian banner, unless there be contradicting faiths or blatant unbelief hostile to the Christian faith. You must also consider the future offspring of what faith the children shall inherit should the couple be offended by the refusal and that they choose no Christian at all faith for their future children.

Marriage be a universal concept given by God it be for the couple to determine their compatibility of their future marriage be that Yay or Ney and it not so much the ministers responsibility to determine unless there be reasons from the above mentioned examples. . There be many reasons for divorce but the reality be it comes down to the two people before God in whether they make their marriage a paradise or make it a living hell. You merely consummate the witness of marriage as verification of Gods given command. Nothing more..I sure our Christian religions outlook on marriage may continue to differ . But still God bless to the separatist Bob : )

Hello Prim90;

I can see how we differ under the same body of Christ and we can leave it at that. It's nothing I haven't heard before in premarital sessions or outside of it, including your sharing about Sweet One.

I will agree with you. It's not my position to take the place of God who ultimately guides marriage between man and woman. Nor is it my responsibility if the couple decides against the sessions or not going forward with the wedding. My role is solely used by God in ministering to the couple engaged to be married and seek premarital sessions.

God bless you, Prim90, and thank you for sharing your position.

 

[forgiven61]

glad we got that clarified

 

[crossnote]

I’m a DUNCE, when it comes to marriage, just ask my wife.

 

[forgiven61]

I’m a DUNCE, when it comes to marriage, just ask my wife.

it dont take a rocket Scientist to make a marriage work .. your no longer 2 in marriage but one ----7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

you work together and yes sometimes you have to swallow your pride and let the wife have her way.. men have there when they eye that new 4 wheel drive truck or buy that new hunting rifle . while the wife does with out to let the man have his play toys we bought a new car few years ago i asked her what she thought. she said what ever you want.. we signed the papers then got a payment book than created us headaches money wise a few times .

we later paid the car off.. dipped into the 4o1k just to take the pain away . a man and wife must work together . Paul wrote husbands love your wife like Christ loved the Church. the post went from common sense to complicated what man thinks.. as Christians we do have a instruction booklet called the Bible.

marriage is sacred and unless its treated that way it will not work

 

[bobinfaith]

it dont take a rocket Scientist to make a marriage work .. your no longer 2 in marriage but one ----7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. you work together and yes sometimes you have to swallow your pride and let the wife have her way.. men have there when they eye that new 4 wheel drive truck or buy that new hunting rifle . while the wife does with out to let the man have his play toys we bought a new car few years ago i asked her what she thought. she said what ever you want.. we signed the papers then got a payment book than created us headaches money wise a few times . we later paid the car off.. dipped into the 4o1k just to take the pain away . a man and wife must work together . Paul wrote husbands love your wife like Christ loved the Church. the post went from common sense to complicated what man thinks.. as Christians we do have a instruction booklet called the Bible. marriage is sacred and unless its treated that way it will not work

Hello forgiven;

I want to share my thought while reading your post. My wife and I were not in agreement with the "behind the scenes" at a Church we attended back in the 90s before I became a pastor.

After hearing my wife express her disappointed to the leadership regarding the doctrine of this Church so she stepped down and moved on. It was the right thing to respect my wife's position. So we started attending two different Churches until I realized this wasn't right for our marriage. So I stepped down and prayed until God led us to a Church that we could worship together.

Regarding our marriage, we both agreed it was against God's will for us to attend separate Churches. We felt by earnestly seeking unity and harmony in our marriage pleased God and we would reap His blessings.

 

[crossnote]

it dont take a rocket Scientist to make a marriage work .

Right, it takes One (and His grace) greater than a rocket Scientist.

 

[Major]

Years ago, in my youth, I would have answered this by claiming that those with a license are married.

That's is nothing more than a social/cultural construct. It's the paradigm we've all been raised with.

It wasn't until I began to read the word of God for what it says, and what it does NOT say, for the realization to set in that I was VERY wrong!

Genesis 2:23-24
23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There are three elements by which the Lord defined marriage:

- leave (forsake) father and mother
- cleave (cling, keep close) unto his wife
- become one flesh with her.

Throughout all the rest of scripture, we see not one verse whereby the Lord added to that definition, nor did the Lord speak of His ever having relinquished to mankind and/or his governments the Lord's own sole authority over marriage and its definition. Marriage is one of the items the Lord did not want man to corrupt, as we see happening within governments when they allow perversions to be defined as legal "marriages."

We see, therefore, that marriage is not an emotional tie, or defined under the auspices of romance, handed over to the authority of any earthly government, not defined by pieces of paper from City Hall, lauded as a "Marriage License," nor does the word of God state that the strength of marriage is somehow bolstered by ceremony, vows, exchanges, acknowledgements nor declarations from anyone with a title, be it governmental and/or religious.

This is the one means by which the Lord has kept marriage pure and beautiful. Those couples with some silly piece of paper from City Hall or s state that says they are married, and have not fulfilled the three items from Genesis 2, they are living sexual sin, and many in adultery who were married before, divorced on unbiblical grounds, such as "incompatibility," and remarried...that is adultery, for the Lord does not recognize divorce on any other grounding that that which the Lord allowed.

This may seem harsh to some, and if it does, then please read your Bible, pray about it, and let the Lord give to you His wisdom, or we can discuss this here. I'm not here to analyze anyone's marriage, but rather to speak only what the word of the Lord says and does not say. Many men have abandoned their wives and children, leaving them to fend for themselves, and therefore failing to provide for his wife's raiment and food. The word of God says that a wife is therefore no longer bound, and owes nothing to the wayward husband.

There are thousands, perhaps millions of variations of stories behind failed marriages, and we can't cover them all here. Suffice it to say that some situations may rest solely upon the Lord's own Judgement, where there is no injustice.

MM

What is marriage you ask?

It is a legal agreement where the husband agrees that his wife will always be right!

 

[Major]

I’m a DUNCE, when it comes to marriage, just ask my wife.

Yep!

 

[krossquad]

Greetings:

What a keel is to a boar, is as marriage to a woman. Flowers and chocolates are not pitch;
a menu is.

bye

 

[Musicmaster]

Greetings:

What a keel is to a boar, is as marriage to a woman. Flowers and chocolates are not pitch;
a menu is.

bye

 

[Yesua888]

Brother, I'm forced to speak from the perspective of who has seen and dealt with situations with similarities to your own...not exact copies, but similar, so to us, toxicities in relationships are all too common. I'm speaking not only from my own experiences with couples but also from the experiences of fellow counselors with whom I've sat around dinking coffee with and spoken in-depth with over many hours of sharing. That's all I'll bore you with from the perspective of, to me, is more of a giving to others than a profession since I am not licensed nor get paid for counseling.

As you know, no mere human can give to any counselee words that would provide all the answers to all things. Our Freudian cohorts out there would offer all manner of seeming "fixes" through various exercises in one's personal life and in conjunction with one's spouse. Damaged goods (so to speak) are, as you said, are among some of the most difficult. When one is fixated on what you stated, in that her ex said to her that he was not going to change for her or anyone else (my take on his heart condition), all anyone can do is shake their head. One can pray for others till Kingdom come, and nothing will change in many.

This is where we get to the point of looking Heavenward, which so many find distasteful and unsatisfying because of a desire for instant fixes and miraculous doings from the Lord they had come to trust and love, and at times feel rejected and are angry toward. My former wife once admitted to me that she was VERY angry with God for giving to her a broken husband like myself, which was one of those really low points in our marriage. I simply wasn't panning out to be what she wanted me to be, and because it was the Lord leading me in that direction, she was acutely aware of the position she was in with trying to alter my path in conformance to her desires. Loving someone sometimes requires taking the higher road that most others around us would say is sin.

Staying the course, and prayer, is what brought her to acceptance of what the Lord was using me for, and so our marriage blossomed immensely after that "fix" the Lord injected into it all.

From what you have said thus far, it seems to me that you're on the right path with that precious lady. Sometimes, couples coming from other "wars," provides for them a symbiosis that is far better than any healing potion of words through counseling, or even reading the Bible because, as you know, the Bible is merely a sign post tool pointing to the Author, who alone is the Mater Healer of our souls and our sprits, bodies and minds. A relationship bathed in prayer, that is from where the glorious influx of healthy love and relationship flows. I'm preaching to the choir here, I know, but having said that, I would stand in the gap for you and her if that were needed. As it is, however, it sounds like you both are on the right track so long as you maintain the Lord, with your compass pointed only at Him.

MM

Hi Musicmaster,
This is indeed an interesting topic, one that most likely affects all of us on one way or another.
I once did a study of this, and the amount of Scriptural verses addressing marriage and "divorce" was astounding.
At the end, I was still left hanging ...

 

[bobinfaith]

Hi Musicmaster,
This is indeed an interesting topic, one that most likely affects all of us on one way or another.
I once did a study of this, and the amount of Scriptural verses addressing marriage and "divorce" was astounding.
At the end, I was still left hanging ...

Good morning, Yesua888;

Musicmaster left his membership at CFS in July 2024. I believe he is with another Christian forum.

Humanity has defined marriage in a huge turn and even the so called experts who have written books on matrimony can't properly define as God does in His Creation of Marriage back in Genesis.

God bless you.

Bob

 

[YeshuaFan]

The gist of what I was getting at is that nothing man and his governmental authorities do or say has any bearing upon marriage as God defined it. Licenses and certificates do not do away with any measure of immorality for those who join together into what the Lord says is a fornicative/adulterous relationship. The blanket of those documents and/or declarations by the representative of the government will never make right what the Lord has declared wrong. Not even the full force of any government has the power to redefine marriage in any other way than how God defined it.

Now, granted, governments have the freedom to define "legal" marriage in whatever way those within it want to define that type of union. However, what any government declares as valid doesn't change the moral dynamics of God's absolutes.

I have known couples who divorced on the grounds of incompatibility, both found someone else to marry them, and there they are with their licenses and certificates, thinking that everything is fine for them. That's a serious flaw and fallacy in their minds if they never come to grips with the sins they are swimming in. Some serious thinking needs to be done on all their parts for how the Lord sees these violations of His moral absolutes. Relationship fractures need mending by the Blood, and only the Lord can do that.

I hope nobody thinks that I am saying here that there is no restoration and cleansing for this. No. The problem is that so many never come to grips with the enormity of the sin that was not blocked by some legal maneuver. Their marriages can indeed be cleaned from the past, because returning to a previous spouse after leaving the one they have...the Lord clearly stated that such is an abomination in His Sight.

Thanks, Bob, for your post. I very much appreciate your take on it all.

MM

Think many pastors require potential partners to take marriage counseling, including financial, and to be able to give a reasonable account of their salvation experience

 

[Yesua888]

Good morning, Yesua888;

Musicmaster left his membership at CFS in July 2024. I believe he is with another Christian forum.

Humanity has defined marriage in a huge turn and even the so called experts who have written books on matrimony can't properly define as God does in His Creation of Marriage back in Genesis.

God bless you.

Bob

Thanks Bob : )

Genesis establishes marriage as a divine institution initiated by God, defined primarily as the covenantal union of one man and one woman becoming "one flesh." The foundational account in Genesis 2:18–24 outlines that marriage serves two primary purposes: providing companionship to remedy human isolation and enabling procreation to fill the earth.

Then Paul says: Married believers should remain married and seek reconciliation rather than divorce, even if one spouse is an unbeliever, with the hope of sanctifying the family unit.

Some may "argue" that because they "tied the knot" using a marriage celebrant, the traditional marriage vows may not have been put in place, overlooked or wording changed.

Many marriage celebrants do not follow a biblical path for vows because traditional wedding vows are not found in the Bible and originate from later church manuals, such as the medieval Sarum Rite and the 1549 Book of Common Prayer. While the Bible does not prescribe specific vow texts, it provides principles like union, love, honor, and submission that many Christian couples use to write their own personalized vows. Consequently, celebrants often allow couples to choose from various options, including modern, secular, or custom-written vows, rather than adhering strictly to historical religious formulas.

What is written about someone who has become saved after taking marriage vows, and the partner is athiest, and they no longer see eye to eye?

 

[BibleLover]

What is written about someone who has become saved after taking marriage vows, and the partner is athiest, and they no longer see eye to eye?

But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
(1 Corinthians 7:12-16.NKJV)

 

[bobinfaith]

Thanks Bob : )

Genesis establishes marriage as a divine institution initiated by God, defined primarily as the covenantal union of one man and one woman becoming "one flesh." The foundational account in Genesis 2:18–24 outlines that marriage serves two primary purposes: providing companionship to remedy human isolation and enabling procreation to fill the earth. Then Paul says: Married believers should remain married and seek reconciliation rather than divorce, even if one spouse is an unbeliever, with the hope of sanctifying the family unit.

Some may "argue" that because they "tied the knot" using a marriage celebrant, the traditional marriage vows may not have been put in place, overlooked or wording changed.

Many marriage celebrants do not follow a biblical path for vows because traditional wedding vows are not found in the Bible and originate from later church manuals, such as the medieval Sarum Rite and the 1549 Book of Common Prayer. While the Bible does not prescribe specific vow texts, it provides principles like union, love, honor, and submission that many Christian couples use to write their own personalized vows. Consequently, celebrants often allow couples to choose from various options, including modern, secular, or custom-written vows, rather than adhering strictly to historical religious formulas.

What is written about someone who has become saved after taking marriage vows, and the partner is athiest, and they no longer see eye to eye?

Think many pastors require potential partners to take marriage counseling, including financial, and to be able to give a reasonable account of their salvation experience

Hello Yesua888 and YeshuaFan;

I'd like to respond to YeshuaFan's good post first, and wholly agree. I knew of a pastor who remained single when he took on his first Church at 32 years old. He tried but wasn't able to minister counsel to pre married or married couples effectively. He used "marriage theory" from seminary but didn't have the hard knocks experience of living day to day with a spouse.

He eventually married in his early 60s while still pastoring a later Church. I feel it's always beneficial when a pastor who ministers marriage, is himself married.

Yesua888, I hadn't heard of the medieval Sarum Rite for some time. It was linked to Catholicism and marriage (man's doctrine of marriage) before the Reformation. I found this somewhat odd since Priests didn't / don't marry.

God bless everyone.

Bob

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hello Yesua888 and YeshuaFan;

I'd like to respond to YeshuaFan's good post first, and wholly agree. I knew of a pastor who remained single when he took on his first Church at 32 years old. He tried but wasn't able to minister counsel to pre married or married couples effectively. He used "marriage theory" from seminary but didn't have the hard knocks experience of living day to day with a spouse.

He eventually married in his early 60s while still pastoring a later Church. I feel it's always beneficial when a pastor who ministers marriage, is himself married.

Yesua888, I hadn't heard of the medieval Sarum Rite for some time. It was linked to Catholicism and marriage (man's doctrine of marriage) before the Reformation. I found this somewhat odd since Priests didn't / don't marry.

God bless everyone.

Bob

In my Church, we have a Husband and wife retired pastors whose ministry is to married, both pre and after marriage counseling

 

[YeshuaFan]

But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?
(1 Corinthians 7:12-16.NKJV)

true, as if he chooses to live, she fits biblcal divorce definition and free to remarry i n the Lord, but she cannot leave him saying "i am now saved and he is a pagan still"

 

[Yesua888]

Yesua888, I hadn't heard of the medieval Sarum Rite for some time. It was linked to Catholicism and marriage (man's doctrine of marriage) before the Reformation. I found this somewhat odd since Priests didn't / don't marry.

God bless everyone.

Bob

Me neither : )

Found this:

The Sarum Rite, developed in Salisbury, England, in the late 11th century under Bishop Osmund, became the dominant liturgical practice in medieval England. Its marriage service, conducted partly in the vernacular, included the foundational vow: "I, N., take thee, N., to my wedded wife/husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, till death us depart." This structure emphasized mutual consent and lifelong commitment.

This rite profoundly influenced global marriage ceremonies through Thomas Cranmer's 1549 Book of Common Prayer, which directly translated and standardized the Sarum vows into English. As the Anglican Church spread through the British Empire, this standardized liturgy carried the Sarum-derived vows worldwide. Even after revisions (e.g., "till death us do part"), the core phrasing remained.

and this:

The specific marriage vows used in modern ceremonies are not found verbatim in the Bible. The traditional phrases like "to have and to hold" and "till death do us part" originate from the 16th-century Book of Common Prayer, not a single biblical passage.

However, the principles behind the vows are deeply rooted in Scripture:

• Oneness: Genesis 2:24 states, "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."
• Love and Sacrifice: Ephesians 5:25 commands husbands to "love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her."
• Mutual Respect: Ephesians 5:33 instructs, "the wife must respect her husband," while 1 Peter 3:7 tells husbands to "treat [wives] with respect."
• Lifelong Covenant: Malachi 2:14 refers to marriage as a "covenant" witnessed by God, and Jesus affirmed its permanence, saying, "What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate" (Matthew 19:6). making our own vows straight from these verses could be pretty special ...

and also this:

Jesus' teaching on vows is found in Matthew 5:33-37. He did not forbid solemn promises like marriage vows, but he condemned casual or manipulative oaths (e.g., swearing by heaven or earth to make a lie seem truthful). His core message was for people's word to be so trustworthy that additional oaths were unnecessary: "Let your 'yes' be 'yes,' and your 'no,' 'no.'" This elevates the seriousness of any promise, affirming that a simple, truthful commitment made before God is the highest standard.