What is Prayer?

Ok, so, we agree Major, you and I, that God dosent speak to us in an audible voice.

But how about a voice from God?
Angels exist do they not?
As messengers.
A message is something conveyed right? Could that be a voice, especially one that furthers Gods Kingdom.

So when folk say they heard Gods voice, I think what they mean is they hear a message FROM God.
 
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First, thank you Sir for your generous efforts and passion at instruction.

A couple more clarifications if I may.

Major said:
It is MY opinion that when the Scriptures were competed and canonized, there was then no more need for a Prophet to speak FOR God.
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Major said:
But the other reason God doesn’t speak to us in a voice we can hear is because He doesn’t need to! God has already told us everything we need to know — and we find it in the pages of the Bible.
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So, in practice, was John of Patmos the final credible prophet, the last person we trust to convey an audibly received message from El Shaddai?

Major said:
Now DID YOU FORGET about the pot?
Was it YOU who remembered you left it turned on?
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I believe get your meaning, I believe I understand the intent and the scope you give this in. That there are small, and perhaps large, personal miracles that do occur. And, we may petition our Lord, and then, if it be His will, they are given freely and then show and affirm Gods attention and love for us individually.

However then, if the scripturally documented audible expressions from God are no longer being written and codified, is the age of “Signs and Wonders” as understood in a biblical sense, those non-audible experiences that are perceived to be miraculous, and those events as being so miraculous and meaningful enough to be, and meant for, the instruction and edification of the entire body of Christ as a whole in the modern Christian experience, are these closed as well?
 
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If I may insert a conjecture...

The reason that OT prayers seem different from those in NT is that we have an advocate ( Christ ) who we know personaly. He has always been the advocate of believers, but until his Earthly ministry, much of his nature was inferred rather than seen.

Also, a fundamental change in the 'mechanics' of prayer came with the Holy Spirit at pentacost.
 
blueskies said:
First, thank you Sir for your generous efforts and passion at instruction.

A couple more clarifications if I may.




So, in practice, was John of Patmos the final credible prophet, the last person we trust to convey an audibly received message from El Shaddai?


I believe get your meaning, I believe I understand the intent and the scope you give this in. That there are small, and perhaps large, personal miracles that do occur. And, we may petition our Lord, and then, if it be His will, they are given freely and then show and affirm Gods attention and love for us individually.

However then, if the scripturally documented audible expressions from God are no longer being written and codified, is the age of “Signs and Wonders” as understood in a biblical sense, those non-audible experiences that are perceived to be miraculous, and those events as being so miraculous and meaningful enough to be, and meant for, the instruction and edification of the entire body of Christ as a whole in the modern Christian experience, are these closed as well?
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YES. John ended the line of Prophet and Apostle.

Matthew 11:13.........
"For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John".

The Apostles did not foretell the coming of the Messiah. They preached that HE had in fact came and HE was Jesus who the Jews killed.
All the prophets and the Law POINTED to the coming of Messiah and the Apostles proclaimed that fact.

THAT being the case, then there is nothing left to be said, which means that there is NO NEED for the office of a prophet.

Now everyone is free to disagree with me. I AM NOT THE AUTHORITY.

It has always been taught to me, and it is my understanding of what the Bible says that the prophet proclaimed a message from the Lord to the early believers. Sometimes a prophet’s message was revelatory and sometimes a prophet’s message was predictive.

We must remember that The early Christians did not have the complete Bible and MOST could not read even if that had a copy of the Law. Some early Christians did not have access to any of the books of the New Testament. The New Testament prophets “filled the gap” by proclaiming God’s message to the people who would not have access to it otherwise. The last book of the New Testament (Revelation) was not completed until late in the first century. So, the Lord sent prophets to proclaim God’s Word to His people.

Are there true prophets today? If the purpose of a prophet was to reveal truth from God, why would we need prophets if we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible?

If prophets were the “foundation” of the early church, are we still building the “foundation” today? Can God give someone a message to deliver to someone else? Absolutely! Does God reveal truth to someone in a supernatural way and enable that person to deliver that message to others? Absolutely! But is this the biblical gift of prophecy? No.
 
Major said:
YES. John ended the line of Prophet and Apostle.

Matthew 11:13.........
"For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John".

The Apostles did not foretell the coming of the Messiah. They preached that HE had in fact came and HE was Jesus who the Jews killed.
All the prophets and the Law POINTED to the coming of Messiah and the Apostles proclaimed that fact.

THAT being the case, then there is nothing left to be said, which means that there is NO NEED for the office of a prophet.

Now everyone is free to disagree with me. I AM NOT THE AUTHORITY.

It has always been taught to me, and it is my understanding of what the Bible says that the prophet proclaimed a message from the Lord to the early believers. Sometimes a prophet’s message was revelatory and sometimes a prophet’s message was predictive.

We must remember that The early Christians did not have the complete Bible and MOST could not read even if that had a copy of the Law. Some early Christians did not have access to any of the books of the New Testament. The New Testament prophets “filled the gap” by proclaiming God’s message to the people who would not have access to it otherwise. The last book of the New Testament (Revelation) was not completed until late in the first century. So, the Lord sent prophets to proclaim God’s Word to His people.

Are there true prophets today? If the purpose of a prophet was to reveal truth from God, why would we need prophets if we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible?

If prophets were the “foundation” of the early church, are we still building the “foundation” today? Can God give someone a message to deliver to someone else? Absolutely! Does God reveal truth to someone in a supernatural way and enable that person to deliver that message to others? Absolutely! But is this the biblical gift of prophecy? No.
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Just as a follow up, there is not one single Scripture which extends the office of the Apostle, no not one.

It seems that if God wanted the office of Apostle to be a valid one, somewhere He would have said just that. However there are no Scriptures that validate any Apostolic succession!

Isnt it interesting that we see this man and that man calim to be an Apostle, and the Catholic church calls the Pope an Apostle but there are NO Scriptures to support that claim.
 
Siloam said:
If I may insert a conjecture...

The reason that OT prayers seem different from those in NT is that we have an advocate ( Christ ) who we know personaly. He has always been the advocate of believers, but until his Earthly ministry, much of his nature was inferred rather than seen.

Also, a fundamental change in the 'mechanics' of prayer came with the Holy Spirit at pentacost.
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Agreed!
 
blueskies said:
First, thank you Sir for your generous efforts and passion at instruction.

A couple more clarifications if I may.




So, in practice, was John of Patmos the final credible prophet, the last person we trust to convey an audibly received message from El Shaddai?


I believe get your meaning, I believe I understand the intent and the scope you give this in. That there are small, and perhaps large, personal miracles that do occur. And, we may petition our Lord, and then, if it be His will, they are given freely and then show and affirm Gods attention and love for us individually.

However then, if the scripturally documented audible expressions from God are no longer being written and codified, is the age of “Signs and Wonders” as understood in a biblical sense, those non-audible experiences that are perceived to be miraculous, and those events as being so miraculous and meaningful enough to be, and meant for, the instruction and edification of the entire body of Christ as a whole in the modern Christian experience, are these closed as well?
Click to expand...
Question was..........
" is the age of “Signs and Wonders” as understood in a biblical sense, those non-audible experiences that are perceived to be miraculous, and those events as being so miraculous and meaningful enough to be, and meant for, the instruction and edification of the entire body of Christ as a whole in the modern Christian experience, are these closed as well?"

YES.

Isn't that exactly what 1 Corinthians 13:8 confirms when we read..........
"Charity (love) never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."

When did that happen?????

Verse #10............
"But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away."

Prophecies, tongues, a word of knowledge were all temporary or in part. When the Bible was finished, those gifts were no longer needed.
That those gifts were needed and intended by God to help establish the church and show that the message of the gospel was from Him should be obvious to all of us.

Now, some people have fallen in love with the Idea that they have the gift of tongues, and a word from God and a Prophetic view because THEY WANT TO DO THOSE things no matter what the Bible says literally.
 
Via dolarossa said:
Ok, so, we agree Major, you and I, that God dosent speak to us in an audible voice. But how about a voice from God? Angels exist do they not? As messengers. A message is something conveyed right? Could that be a voice, especially one that furthers Gods Kingdom. So when folk say they heard Gods voice, I think what they mean is they hear a message FROM God.
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Hello Via;

God's glory is amazing in so many ways. For example, when I communicate with God, at times I will hear the wind blowing, the rain drops or lightening, it's hard to articulate but I feel He is speaking to me during that moment. When I'm at the beach I love the sound of waves and when I'm quiet and listening to the waves. at times I hear (feel) reassurance from God that He embraces me through everything.

Angels do exist and I feel they are here to protect us and carry out God's instructions for His good and glory.

God bless you, sister.
 
Major said:
Talking to God.
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Hi, has anyone read the book by Rees Howells called The Intercessor! Wow, I thought I new how to pray! This is a humble story about one of the greatest prayer warriors that ever lived. I read it about 20 years ago, and was so very moved. I started just weeping thinking about it, so I ordered the on line kindle copy of it on Amazon, and read it in one setting! The tears from the Holy Spirit moved upon my heart as I relived this powerful story of Intercession prayer! Rees was a prayer warrior in the 18th century, whom the Holy Spirit prayed through in such a deep way, until he could see God binding the devil in peoples lives with out him making and person contact with them, and seeing the effects of Holy Spirit conviction and Salvation striking their souls!

If you would like a deeper experience in prayer, and read of many powerful miracles and deliverances, here is a link
to this book on amazon. I promise that you will be so very blessed by it! https://www.amazon.com/Rees-Howells...d=1659982970&sprefix=rees+how,aps,1185&sr=8-1
Shalom, Derek
 
Major said:
I am destroyed that you have placed me in such a position where I would have to tell someone as educated, and smart as you, BUT--
IT IS ALL ABOUT LOOKS my dear brother!

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This is really cute! I just sent a copy to a prison inmate who loves animals! So you just blessed a prisoner! How about that! Thank you very much! If you have any more cute pics like this, I'd sure be happy to share them with a prisoned soul that needs some encouragement!
Blessings, Derek
 
blueskies said:
Dear Bob,
I am glad you asked Bob because I was saving this for you, although Major or anyone else is welcome. In the Old Testament it seems as if prayers most often are (at least as are documented) of an earthly nature, eg. help with a barren wife, help in battle or freedom from oppression for some sketchy examples. One OT exception that occurs to this in my limited knowledge are David’s Psalms which are certainly prayers of a very diverse nature with many (eg Psalm 23) to be prayers of a devotional and heavenly nature. However, back to my question, in the NT when asked about prayer Jesus gives us “The Lord’s Prayer”, and this seems to me to be a much different type of prayer than is typical in the OT. Although not expressed explicitly, none the less, do you think the New Testament directs us to pray for, and seek after, less earthly and more spiritual blessings in our prayers? If the Old Covenant was made between God and Israel, and the New Covenant is between God and man through Jesus, do you see the New Covenant changing the nature of prayer?
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Hello blueskies;

There are many great answers from our members defining What is Prayer?

I would like to add that in the Old Testament there were many prayers of petition. But we also remember there were many prayers of praise to our Almighty God (Moses, David, Isaiah, Solomon, Jeremiah, etc...) The historical context of the Old Testament also led to the type of prayers lifted up to God up until the Intertestamental Period (400 silent years) and then the beginning of the New Testament.

In the New Testament during Jesus' missions in the Gospels, He taught the model prayer in Matthew 6:9-13. Also, in my own words, Jesus' mission and teaching included what I call the Love Commandments - Love, Compassion, Justice, Mercy, Faithfulness.

Both the OT and NT prayers first gave homage to God first, but much of the different type of prayer was concentrated on the history settings, however, people being people were included much of the concentration of prayer of those then and there times, as well as today's here and now times.

God bless you, brother.
 
Derek88 said:
This is really cute! I just sent a copy to a prison inmate who loves animals! So you just blessed a prisoner! How about that! Thank you very much! If you have any more cute pics like this, I'd sure be happy to share them with a prisoned soul that needs some encouragement!
Blessings, Derek
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Yuu stay around here for awhile and you will see a lot more dog pics....BULL dogs!

My sister..........1659985200730.png
 
bobinfaith said:
God's glory is amazing in so many ways. For example, when I communicate with God, at times I will hear the wind blowing, the rain drops or lightening, it's hard to articulate but I feel He is speaking to me during that moment.
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Dear Bob, if, and when, I can still my mind sufficiently and the world cooperates, I too have these moments and they are more precious than any worldly possession.
Thank you.
 
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