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Correct; excellent restraint.
WHAT IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD?
- Thread starter vengaturreino
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Correct; excellent restraint.
When I first got saved, I found a little Church in my area. The pastor was a very young. He just received his license from the "Church of God" denomination, and they gave him a Church building that was at least 100 years old. I became very good friends with the pastor, and I played all music there. Everyone who came there were all young Christians, every body in the Church there were young in the Lord. When we read the Bible we just believed what it said to be true. I don't think anyone knew there was a division in the other Churches about miracles, and healing. I personally saw some who were almost completly blind, being made whole, and these were just kids. I saw homosexuals made straight after praying for them. Miracles were common among us, and we just thought that was a normal thing, we din't know any better! Maybe as we grow older we loose sight of what it really means to have a child like faith, and just believe the Bible in what it says.
Psalms 119:68, 71 & 75. .........
"Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I obey your word...It was good for me to be afflicted so that I might learn your decrees...I know, O LORD, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me."
The author was looking at suffering from God's perspective. It was good for him to be afflicted. It was faithfulness that caused God to afflict him. The result of the affliction was so that he could learn God's decrees and obey His Word.
Several years ago when I was young, I remember a wonderful Christian woman who during a prayer meeting gave a testimony where she praised God. It seems that she had a toothache for a long time. Then according to her, during the night Jesus came and removed that tooth and replaced it with a new GOLD tooth. She was a dear saint and no one would have considered that what she said was not the gospel. It was a great miracle and everyone praised the Lord.
Now that I am in fact much older, I have thought that maybe, just maybe that the dear saint might have forgotten that she went to a dentist and had that tooth replaced that afternoon but because she loved the Lord so very much, she wanted Him to get the glory.. Dementia will do that to us.
Not to be outdone, another saint then told the church that she had just come through Atlanta Ga. She said she hated to drive through Atlanta and so she just closed her eyes and let Jesus take the wheel and He drove her car through Atlanta and then she opened her eyes and continued on to Orlando.
Sometimes as we age we look back at what our minds convinced us happened and we realize that it might have been a little different.
Now do not think that I do not believe that God does not do miracles because He certainly does. However we must all realize that when emotions and adrenaline kick in, some people can be affected by what they think instead of what it really is.
It is very interesting that even after Jesus had risen from the dead, and he appeared before his disciples, and in seeing him with their own eyes they still did not believe!
They thought the news, and in what they saw was just to good to be true!! This is how miracles are, they are just to good to be true, yet they are true.
Luk 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luk 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
Our afflictions are not sent by God. They can be used by God.
My sister, I only post what the Scriptures. They are there for anyone to accept or reject but what it says is what it says.
Judges 9:23..........
"Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem".
Ps. 119:75.....
"I know? O Lord, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me"?
I Sam. 16:14.......
" An evil spirit is sent of the Lord also upon Saul ".
Jer. 6:19....... "Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it."
Jer. 11:11..........
"Therefore thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape . . . "
Jer. 18:11.........
" . . . Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you . . ."
Jer. 32:42.........
"For thus saith the Lord; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them."
Jer. 45:5 ...........
"And seekest thou great things for thyself? Seek them not; for, behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the Lord".
God tells us in scripture that the church needs to turn the unrepentant sinning Christian over to the devil, and in other passages in the OT, we see God actually doing that---turning wicked ones over to Satan for their comeuppance...to bring them to repentance.
Don't forget that where it says that God brings evil, or creates evil, it does not mean evil as in darkness or sin, but calamity---what man would consider terrible.
Don't forget that where it says that God brings evil, or creates evil, it does not mean evil as in darkness or sin, but calamity---what man would consider terrible.
No I do not believe the author was looking at it through God's perspective. He may have been giving God praise for in this affliction and He saw some things but this in no ways says God allows affliction to teach us or wake us up or anything like that. I did NOT say God wont use them...I said GOD does NOT ALLOW them for this purpose.
Until the fall of man there was NO sickness nor No Sin. There was NO death either until the fall and that took the devil over 900 years to get death to take hold of adam.
God hates SIN. Now if your child gets cancer you are going to hate that cancer very much BUT you will love that child. TO GOD sin is as cancer for He hates SIN because it destroys His child. Sickness destroys His children........He hates sickness. He is not going to allow sin or sickness just to move you or teach you and so forth.
Just as many churches preach that God wanted Joseph in Egypt so He used or allowed or caused all those bad things to happen to Joseph so He could get him there...That is as wrong as saying sin is in Gods control.
The devil went after Joseph and every time the devil tried to kill steel and destroy Joseph the Blessing of the Lord Took over. Why is that ? For one because Joseph knew He was blessed just as all of us are. The thing that separated Joseph from most believers is Joseph knew how to act on it. He did not except things from ther enemy or curse as from GOD.
He praised God and He spoke God words and He kept His mind, will and emotions in check with Gods word and what God had said to him in several dreams. His Heart was full of FAITH in God and what GOD said. Joseph acted as if nothing was wrong and did not complain or blame or hate.
You know the story.....every place satan tried to kill Joseph the blessing took over. It was the blessing of the Lord in which taught Joseph to run a prison and everything else.
Major I am not and no one else is saying you have to believe this or live this way. You can except all the things you want and give God the glory for them. However it is not the gospel and not as in the correct or only way to live in right standing with God. If people want to stay sick and say it must be Gods will then so be it, it is sad but no one can force some one to believe other wise.
Jesus said He came so we might have life in abundance.....what part of abundance does sickness and poverty and tragedy and affliction come from ? Again Brother YOU choose to which way you walk.
Have a wonderful week my Brother
Love in Christ ; )
Jim
Hey brother are you sure those were written to us ? I mean you told me that the OT scriptures I used were not for us. Just teasing Brother ...Aint God AWESOME
When Jesus was casting demons, those around him accused Jesus that is was by the power of "Beelzebub" that he was able to do such things.
The Lord then tells them if that was true, then Satan's kingdom is divided and it will not stand.
Mat 12:24.. But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:25.. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26.. And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
If God gives "sickness " to teach someone, and then turns around and heals them from their sickness, then God's Kingdom is also divided and it will never stand! We know how the Lord teaches his children. It is the same way we teach our children.
2Ti 3:16.. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17.. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I don't see sickness, poverty, or lack anywhere in this scripture!
Surely the correction of the Lord is not a pleasant thing to endure. It brings affliction, not sickness. It brings peace not calamity when it is finished. If it was pleasant then we would enjoy our punishment. It is not fun, but grievous to our souls. The Word of God is a rod that not only comforts, but disciplines us when needed.
How then and why do we find our self's sometimes in times of sickness, poverty, or lack?
Sin. Sin is what causes our safety to be compromised. Sin allows the enemy of our souls to come in and cause these things.
Joh 10:10.. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
To steal what? Our health, our belongings, our children, and every thing the Lord has given us. Not just to steal, but to kill, and destroy!
How can a Christian be protected from these things?
Psa_91:1.. He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
1John_5:18.. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
The wicked one can not touch those who dwelling under the shadow of the Almighty, and have kept them self's clean by confessing their sins when needed.
The Lord then tells them if that was true, then Satan's kingdom is divided and it will not stand.
Mat 12:24.. But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:25.. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26.. And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
If God gives "sickness " to teach someone, and then turns around and heals them from their sickness, then God's Kingdom is also divided and it will never stand! We know how the Lord teaches his children. It is the same way we teach our children.
2Ti 3:16.. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17.. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I don't see sickness, poverty, or lack anywhere in this scripture!
Surely the correction of the Lord is not a pleasant thing to endure. It brings affliction, not sickness. It brings peace not calamity when it is finished. If it was pleasant then we would enjoy our punishment. It is not fun, but grievous to our souls. The Word of God is a rod that not only comforts, but disciplines us when needed.
How then and why do we find our self's sometimes in times of sickness, poverty, or lack?
Sin. Sin is what causes our safety to be compromised. Sin allows the enemy of our souls to come in and cause these things.
Joh 10:10.. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
To steal what? Our health, our belongings, our children, and every thing the Lord has given us. Not just to steal, but to kill, and destroy!
How can a Christian be protected from these things?
Psa_91:1.. He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
1John_5:18.. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
The wicked one can not touch those who dwelling under the shadow of the Almighty, and have kept them self's clean by confessing their sins when needed.
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I will refer you back to comment #80 and leave it there Jim.
Sure thing but still have a question for you. Why ? I mean I have not got out of hand and can reply back and forth. So why this? Just wondering.
Peace Brother
No Jim you have been very nice. Actually it is me and not you. I just feel like we are going over the same information over and over and over giving the same answers to the same questions.
I see no need to keep doing a back and forth conversation when you and I are so entrenched in what we believe to be Biblical.
I do not accept the "Word of Faith/Wealth & Prosperity" teaching that you support and I just do not want to keep going back and forth over those things I do not agree with.
I am sure that there will areas where we will agree with each other in the future.
Blessings Major,
I truly thank you for the reply and the respect that came with it. It means a lot to me.
I do not believe that it is differences in biblical beliefs as much as I do your mind set.
Let me explain for there is no aught or anything as a put down so you can relax and sit back.
This statement that you made....(( I do not accept the "Word of Faith/Wealth & Prosperity" teaching that you support and I just do not want to keep going back and forth over those things I do not agree with. ))
First Major I am not writing to change your views on Word Of Faith but going to point out one slight damper if you will.
When ever myself or any other brother or sister begins to talk about faith or blessings or who we are in Christ or the authority that we have, Well brother you with out thinking go into a defence mode of thinking and it is seen in your replies. Why do I say this ? Well for one you and I and you and others have gone back and forth defending their view or point and when you go back and re-read them you see that they were saying the very same thing....
It's the mindset of of Prosperity and wealth that you carry inside your heart brother. The only prosperity message I take hold of is one teaching about Life more abundant and this is ALL AREA'S of ones life. Finances are a very small part of it and normally is not even in my writing. Wealth or wealthy can be viewed as good health, or a wealth of friends or relationships etc.
I understand that you have your thoughts on certain messages preached today and that is not being under attack here. It is simply that you have a very High Disagreement with any kind of mention of prosperity and have connected it with Faith or word of faith so it comes out not only in your thinking but in your writing.
It is ok not to agree BUT NOT to the point where it has taken a bitter root in your heart.
I have been there many times Major, and the day I decided to not be "Way Side" and allowed God to minister to me in this area I was set free. It was like this huge load of frustration or something simply left me. I am not saying that I began to agree with what had taken a bitter root in my heart but it did free me so I was able to HEAR and SEE and SPEAK clearly once again.
I am just saying brother perhaps it might be a Good Thing if you honestly went before God our Heavenly Father with this and see if there is anything to what I am saying. What could it hurt ? Again this is not about changing your views brother, just simply freeing up your heart.
Any way Major I enjoy writing with you and look forward to many more interactions between the two of us.
Have a wonderful and blessed day
Your friend and Brother in Christ
Jim
Thank you brother for your thoughts and in some ways you are probably correct. However in many ways you are incorrect. You see, as part of what I have been doing now for many years is trying to fix those people who have been damaged emotionally and spiritually by the teachings of those who convinced them that IF THEY had enough faith God would heal them.
I am the one who has had to sit and cry with the parents of deacons and grandparents and parents who watched their baby die of cancer when all that they had left in life was in fact their faith but in the end that baby still died and they felt betrayed by a God that they wanted to save and heal their loved one. You see, they CLAIMED that child's health but that child died.
You see, anyone can be a hero and claim all kinds of things and say beautiful glowing words until the reality of life sets in. It is when the rubber meets the road that we then have to grasp the reality of life. Then all the positive confessions and praises have to be understood that it just may be God's will that is taking place in front of us. You see Jim, this is not my first rodeo. I have been involved in this kind of interaction concerning this theology for many years.
IMO, which is free to be disagreed with as I am not arguing, simply giving you my years of learning about this, the roots of the Word of Faith movement and the "name it and claim" it message have more in common with new age metaphysics than with Biblical Christianity. However, instead of us creating our reality with our thoughts, as new age proponents advise, name it and claim it teachers tell us that we can use the “power of faith” to create our own reality or get what we want.
The problem is of course as I explained already.....what happens when we do not get want we want or claim????
In essence, faith is redefined from “a trust in a holy and sovereign God despite our circumstances” to “a way of controlling God to give us what we want.” Faith becomes a force whereby we can get what we want rather than an abiding trust in God even during times of trials and suffering. This then becomes more about "positive thinking" than it does faith in God.
Whether it is the power of positive thinking or the prosperity gospel, the premise is the same—what you think or believe will happen is ultimately what controls what will happen. If you think negative thoughts or are lacking in faith, you will suffer or not get what you want. But on the other hand if you think positive thoughts or just have “enough faith,” then you can have health, wealth, and happiness now. This false teaching appeals to one of man’s most basic instincts, which is one reason why it is hugely popular.
I can appreciate your thinking that I need to pray more about my thinking and understand and of course that is your opinion. The down side of course to that is ..."How much prayer and soul searching to you think I have already done on this subject which has led me to the knowledge I am now sharing with you over the internet." IMO that is presumciouse on your part to even broach that area. You see, that places you in position of "holier than thou" and I do not think you want to do that.
Jim.....Jesus did not come to give us health, wealth and happiness now. He came to save us from our sins so that we can have an eternity of bliss with Him. Following Christ is not a ticket to all the material things men desire in this life but a ticket to eternal life. It is my understanding that our desire should not be to have our best life now but to have the attitude of the apostle Paul, who had learned to be content “in whatever state I am” (Philippians 4:11).
Thank you brother for your thoughts and in some ways you are probably correct. However in many ways you are incorrect. You see, as part of what I have been doing now for many years is trying to fix those people who have been damaged emotionally and spiritually by the teachings of those who convinced them that IF THEY had enough faith God would heal them.
I am the one who has had to sit and cry with the parents of deacons and grandparents and parents who watched their baby die of cancer when all that they had left in life was in fact their faith but in the end that baby still died and they felt betrayed by a God that they wanted to save and heal their loved one. You see, they CLAIMED that child's health but that child died.
You see, anyone can be a hero and claim all kinds of things and say beautiful glowing words until the reality of life sets in. It is when the rubber meets the road that we then have to grasp the reality of life. Then all the positive confessions and praises have to be understood that it just may be God's will that is taking place in front of us. You see Jim, this is not my first rodeo. I have been involved in this kind of interaction concerning this theology for many years.
IMO, which is free to be disagreed with as I am not arguing, simply giving you my years of learning about this, the roots of the Word of Faith movement and the "name it and claim" it message have more in common with new age metaphysics than with Biblical Christianity. However, instead of us creating our reality with our thoughts, as new age proponents advise, name it and claim it teachers tell us that we can use the “power of faith” to create our own reality or get what we want.
The problem is of course as I explained already.....what happens when we do not get want we want or claim????
In essence, faith is redefined from “a trust in a holy and sovereign God despite our circumstances” to “a way of controlling God to give us what we want.” Faith becomes a force whereby we can get what we want rather than an abiding trust in God even during times of trials and suffering. This then becomes more about "positive thinking" than it does faith in God.
Whether it is the power of positive thinking or the prosperity gospel, the premise is the same—what you think or believe will happen is ultimately what controls what will happen. If you think negative thoughts or are lacking in faith, you will suffer or not get what you want. But on the other hand if you think positive thoughts or just have “enough faith,” then you can have health, wealth, and happiness now. This false teaching appeals to one of man’s most basic instincts, which is one reason why it is hugely popular.
I can appreciate your thinking that I need to pray more about my thinking and understand and of course that is your opinion. The down side of course to that is ..."How much prayer and soul searching to you think I have already done on this subject which has led me to the knowledge I am now sharing with you over the internet." IMO that is presumciouse on your part to even broach that area. You see, that places you in position of "holier than thou" and I do not think you want to do that.
Jim.....Jesus did not come to give us health, wealth and happiness now. He came to save us from our sins so that we can have an eternity of bliss with Him. Following Christ is not a ticket to all the material things men desire in this life but a ticket to eternal life. It is my understanding that our desire should not be to have our best life now but to have the attitude of the apostle Paul, who had learned to be content “in whatever state I am” (Philippians 4:11)
Major all I can say is I be praying for you.
You understanding is off kilt with what is taught and it has built strongholds of doubt in you in which you cover by saying it is not even GODS WILL.
Blessings and do what you have to do in God's strength Brother yours will fail you.
Blessings
Honestly Jim, my understanding is actually "main line" Protestant theology and is right in line with what the Bible actually teaches...... IMO. It is the Word of Faith theology which is the questionable theology we are discussing.
The theology that you are describing is deceiving countless people, causing them to grasp after a way of life and faith that is not Biblical. At its core is the same lie Satan has been telling since the Garden: “You shall be as God”. Sadly, those who buy into the Word of Faith movement are still listening to him. My hope is in the Lord, not in my own words, not even in our my own faith (Psalm 33:20-22).
My faith comes from God in the first place (Ephesians 2:8; Hebrews 12:2) and is not something I created for myself.
And you are correct. my strength will fail as will yours in time. It is at that time when we understand that it is the Lord Jesus Christ who will supply us with the strength to take another step.
Psalms 23 clearly teaches us that...........
"The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
So, my advice and encouragement is to be wary of the Word of Faith movement and any church that aligns itself with Word of Faith teachings.
Actually the author seemed to be looking at it through mans view of things and yes within this affliction he got his head screwed on straight and understood that Gods way was the best way. Just because man speaks like this does not make it God in any way.
Blessings