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Guest
I will not continue to banter back and forth with you as it is obvious that we are convinced in what we think we know to be correct and to continue is going to lead to another closed thread.
Correct; excellent restraint.
I will not continue to banter back and forth with you as it is obvious that we are convinced in what we think we know to be correct and to continue is going to lead to another closed thread.
So, we see Biblically that some sickness is not from God, but from Satan.
Major:
NO sickness is from God, or is God's will for anyone. If that were the case, then going to a doctor could very well be a sin.
When I first got saved, I found a little Church in my area. The pastor was a very young. He just received his license from the "Church of God" denomination, and they gave him a Church building that was at least 100 years old. I became very good friends with the pastor, and I played all music there. Everyone who came there were all young Christians, every body in the Church there were young in the Lord. When we read the Bible we just believed what it said to be true. I don't think anyone knew there was a division in the other Churches about miracles, and healing. I personally saw some who were almost completly blind, being made whole, and these were just kids. I saw homosexuals made straight after praying for them. Miracles were common among us, and we just thought that was a normal thing, we din't know any better! Maybe as we grow older we loose sight of what it really means to have a child like faith, and just believe the Bible in what it says.
It is very interesting that even after Jesus had risen from the dead, and he appeared before his disciples, and in seeing him with their own eyes they still did not believe!Several years ago when I was young, I remember a wonderful Christian woman who during a prayer meeting gave a testimony where she praised God. It seems that she had a toothache for a long time. Then according to her, during the night Jesus came and removed that tooth and replaced it with a new GOLD tooth. She was a dear saint and no one would have considered that what she said was not the gospel. It was a great miracle and everyone praised the Lord.
Now that I am in fact much older, I have thought that maybe, just maybe that the dear saint might have forgotten that she went to a dentist and had that tooth replaced that afternoon but because she loved the Lord so very much, she wanted Him to get the glory.. Dementia will do that to us.
Not to be outdone, another saint then told the church that she had just come through Atlanta Ga. She said she hated to drive through Atlanta and so she just closed her eyes and let Jesus take the wheel and He drove her car through Atlanta and then she opened her eyes and continued on to Orlando.
Sometimes as we age we look back at what our minds convinced us happened and we realize that it might have been a little different.
Now do not think that I do not believe that God does not do miracles because He certainly does. However we must all realize that when emotions and adrenaline kick in, some people can be affected by what they think instead of what it really is.
Psalms 119:68, 71 & 75. .........
"Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I obey your word...It was good for me to be afflicted so that I might learn your decrees...I know, O LORD, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me."
The author was looking at suffering from God's perspective. It was good for him to be afflicted. It was faithfulness that caused God to afflict him. The result of the affliction was so that he could learn God's decrees and obey His Word.
Our afflictions are not sent by God. They can be used by God.
Psalms 119:68, 71 & 75. .........
"Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I obey your word...It was good for me to be afflicted so that I might learn your decrees...I know, O LORD, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me."
The author was looking at suffering from God's perspective. It was good for him to be afflicted. It was faithfulness that caused God to afflict him. The result of the affliction was so that he could learn God's decrees and obey His Word.
My sister, I only post what the Scriptures. They are there for anyone to accept or reject but what it says is what it says.
Judges 9:23..........
"Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem".
Ps. 119:75.....
"I know? O Lord, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me"?
I Sam. 16:14.......
" An evil spirit is sent of the Lord also upon Saul ".
Jer. 6:19....... "Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it."
Jer. 11:11..........
"Therefore thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape . . . "
Jer. 18:11.........
" . . . Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you . . ."
Jer. 32:42.........
"For thus saith the Lord; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them."
Jer. 45:5 ...........
"And seekest thou great things for thyself? Seek them not; for, behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the Lord".
Hey brother are you sure those were written to us ? I mean you told me that the OT scriptures I used were not for us. Just teasing Brother ...Aint God AWESOME
I will refer you back to comment #80 and leave it there Jim.
Sure thing but still have a question for you. Why ? I mean I have not got out of hand and can reply back and forth. So why this? Just wondering.
Peace Brother
No Jim you have been very nice. Actually it is me and not you. I just feel like we are going over the same information over and over and over giving the same answers to the same questions.
I see no need to keep doing a back and forth conversation when you and I are so entrenched in what we believe to be Biblical.
I do not accept the "Word of Faith/Wealth & Prosperity" teaching that you support and I just do not want to keep going back and forth over those things I do not agree with.
I am sure that there will areas where we will agree with each other in the future.
Blessings Major,
I truly thank you for the reply and the respect that came with it. It means a lot to me.
I do not believe that it is differences in biblical beliefs as much as I do your mind set.
Let me explain for there is no aught or anything as a put down so you can relax and sit back.
This statement that you made....(( I do not accept the "Word of Faith/Wealth & Prosperity" teaching that you support and I just do not want to keep going back and forth over those things I do not agree with. ))
First Major I am not writing to change your views on Word Of Faith but going to point out one slight damper if you will.
When ever myself or any other brother or sister begins to talk about faith or blessings or who we are in Christ or the authority that we have, Well brother you with out thinking go into a defence mode of thinking and it is seen in your replies. Why do I say this ? Well for one you and I and you and others have gone back and forth defending their view or point and when you go back and re-read them you see that they were saying the very same thing....
It's the mindset of of Prosperity and wealth that you carry inside your heart brother. The only prosperity message I take hold of is one teaching about Life more abundant and this is ALL AREA'S of ones life. Finances are a very small part of it and normally is not even in my writing. Wealth or wealthy can be viewed as good health, or a wealth of friends or relationships etc.
I understand that you have your thoughts on certain messages preached today and that is not being under attack here. It is simply that you have a very High Disagreement with any kind of mention of prosperity and have connected it with Faith or word of faith so it comes out not only in your thinking but in your writing.
It is ok not to agree BUT NOT to the point where it has taken a bitter root in your heart.
I have been there many times Major, and the day I decided to not be "Way Side" and allowed God to minister to me in this area I was set free. It was like this huge load of frustration or something simply left me. I am not saying that I began to agree with what had taken a bitter root in my heart but it did free me so I was able to HEAR and SEE and SPEAK clearly once again.
I am just saying brother perhaps it might be a Good Thing if you honestly went before God our Heavenly Father with this and see if there is anything to what I am saying. What could it hurt ? Again this is not about changing your views brother, just simply freeing up your heart.
Any way Major I enjoy writing with you and look forward to many more interactions between the two of us.
Have a wonderful and blessed day
Your friend and Brother in Christ
Jim
Thank you brother for your thoughts and in some ways you are probably correct. However in many ways you are incorrect. You see, as part of what I have been doing now for many years is trying to fix those people who have been damaged emotionally and spiritually by the teachings of those who convinced them that IF THEY had enough faith God would heal them.
I am the one who has had to sit and cry with the parents of deacons and grandparents and parents who watched their baby die of cancer when all that they had left in life was in fact their faith but in the end that baby still died and they felt betrayed by a God that they wanted to save and heal their loved one. You see, they CLAIMED that child's health but that child died.
You see, anyone can be a hero and claim all kinds of things and say beautiful glowing words until the reality of life sets in. It is when the rubber meets the road that we then have to grasp the reality of life. Then all the positive confessions and praises have to be understood that it just may be God's will that is taking place in front of us. You see Jim, this is not my first rodeo. I have been involved in this kind of interaction concerning this theology for many years.
IMO, which is free to be disagreed with as I am not arguing, simply giving you my years of learning about this, the roots of the Word of Faith movement and the "name it and claim" it message have more in common with new age metaphysics than with Biblical Christianity. However, instead of us creating our reality with our thoughts, as new age proponents advise, name it and claim it teachers tell us that we can use the “power of faith” to create our own reality or get what we want.
The problem is of course as I explained already.....what happens when we do not get want we want or claim????
In essence, faith is redefined from “a trust in a holy and sovereign God despite our circumstances” to “a way of controlling God to give us what we want.” Faith becomes a force whereby we can get what we want rather than an abiding trust in God even during times of trials and suffering. This then becomes more about "positive thinking" than it does faith in God.
Whether it is the power of positive thinking or the prosperity gospel, the premise is the same—what you think or believe will happen is ultimately what controls what will happen. If you think negative thoughts or are lacking in faith, you will suffer or not get what you want. But on the other hand if you think positive thoughts or just have “enough faith,” then you can have health, wealth, and happiness now. This false teaching appeals to one of man’s most basic instincts, which is one reason why it is hugely popular.
I can appreciate your thinking that I need to pray more about my thinking and understand and of course that is your opinion. The down side of course to that is ..."How much prayer and soul searching to you think I have already done on this subject which has led me to the knowledge I am now sharing with you over the internet." IMO that is presumciouse on your part to even broach that area. You see, that places you in position of "holier than thou" and I do not think you want to do that.
Jim.....Jesus did not come to give us health, wealth and happiness now. He came to save us from our sins so that we can have an eternity of bliss with Him. Following Christ is not a ticket to all the material things men desire in this life but a ticket to eternal life. It is my understanding that our desire should not be to have our best life now but to have the attitude of the apostle Paul, who had learned to be content “in whatever state I am” (Philippians 4:11)
Major all I can say is I be praying for you.
You understanding is off kilt with what is taught and it has built strongholds of doubt in you in which you cover by saying it is not even GODS WILL.
Blessings and do what you have to do in God's strength Brother yours will fail you.
Blessings
Psalms 119:68, 71 & 75. .........
"Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I obey your word...It was good for me to be afflicted so that I might learn your decrees...I know, O LORD, that your laws are righteous, and in faithfulness you have afflicted me."
The author was looking at suffering from God's perspective. It was good for him to be afflicted. It was faithfulness that caused God to afflict him. The result of the affliction was so that he could learn God's decrees and obey His Word.