Whatever Happened to the Old Time Hymns?
- Thread starter Musicmaster
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I am relieved that you have allowed me to have my opinion. You need to understand that this subject is not one that I stumbled in on. I have been shouting from the rooftop for many, many years about CCM.
What I have been saying and am saying again right now is that the "core premise" of the contemporary church and music movement is unBiblical because it promotes conformity of the church and Christians to the world rather than to the holy image of Christ. The contemporary church movement is producing shallow, worldly Christians and churches.
Bill Hybels, the father of the seeker sensitive movement, prominently confessed, .......
“We made a mistake…. Our churches are a mile wide and an inch deep.”
Source: [2007 Leadership Summit, Willow Creek Community Church].
If the movement’s own leaders do not like where their path has led, why should we travel it?
By your thinking......if the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing, then what is done is acceptable!!!!
Not To ME!
From Ken Blue ministries......
"Perhaps the best example of “the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing,” is in the lack of coordination between the Pastor’s sermon, and the music director’s selection of songs. Seldom do these two connect the music with the message. I have watched song leaders pick songs for the service five minutes before a service begins."
Source......IndenendantBaptist.com = www.kenblueministries.com/2013/07/29/is-the-music-in-step-with-your-message/
Now, YOU are entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine and I respect it.
I would only ask this........Do you want to direct your church toward the world, or away from it?
According to Rick Warren, the style of music we choose helps set the course. Rick Warren wrote......
“Once you have decided the style of music for your worship you have set the direction of your church in far more ways than you realize.”
Source: [The Purpose Driven Church, p. 280-281]
However, God says in Romans 12:2, actually he commands,
“Be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.”
Its this book
Hello brothers and sisters;
I want to share this perspective of my desire to become a musician when I was 11 years old in 1968 and how God led me into the music ministry in 1974.
At first I wanted to be the next Creedence Clearwater Revival or Elton John and have the fans adore my recordings and me. The gratifications were of the flesh, money and good worldly living.
By 1996 I had became more and more familiar with the great hymns of faith and how 99% of hymns were Scripture based and impacted my personal growth in Christ. Why is that?
God inhabits our praises of Him and this is why praise and worship is Biblical and so vital. What more can we ask when God is in our presence when we lift songs to Him as our gift, not for our own emotional good feeling? Most music ministries today do not teach this!
At that time I had also learned about the first wave of Contemporary Christian Music evolved from Jesus Christ Superstar, Godspell, to Maranatha, Integrity, Vineyard music, etc...
Many groups such as Casting Crowns and Don Moen are two great examples of Christian musicians whose Contemporary Christian Music is Scripture based, both are personally educated in music at their respective Bible colleges and ordained.
Unfortunately, I also learned that many musicians are not anointed in Contemporary Christian Music, have never or rarely read the Bible and their lyrics are not Scripture based, but kind of a good fluffy lyrical feeling of a sermon. Their music doctrine is market based driven and this is where the followers of most CCM listeners become built on an "emotional feeling" instead of "Spiritual leading" in personal listening and gathering of music events.
I have also seen those who love to listen to CCM cds, sing along CCM music during worship service, attend Christian music concerts and afterward express what a wonderful feeling, but soon forget the praise and worship until the next gathering. That is not worship.
In my personal evangelism to the inreach of Christians, I have seen a personal growth in Christ from praise and worship that is Biblical and Scriptural based that sustains their Spiritual praise and worship to God.
Now, this doesn't mean one should throw their music in the trash, but rather, take a step back and pray. Read the Psalms and seriously ask God which direction we should take in our personal and corporate praise and worship. After all, praise and worship is a Christian ministry but must be done right for His glory.
God bless you all.
easy there bro when i said i have no objections to your opinion... let me correct one thing before we go farther in to the discussion ...I have NOT allowed you one thing/ when i say i have no objections i am saying i respect your opinion.. you may wonder why i didnt say that... ya know i have no idea . tis just how i say things...
one i DO NOT support the contemporary church . i support some contemporary music groups the ones i know of. the ones i named are Christians .yes i do believe they are of God. i dont know nothing about movements very little about Rick warren i am not a big fan of him. nor do i know anything about ken Blue.. i have listened to the group song i like. i know how to discern
have you even took time out to listen to the two songs i posted? trust me there is no rock n roll music.. once again the ones i listen to promotes Jesus Christ born again washed in the Blood. all songs of sound doctrine. btw at MY Church i pastor we sing hymns . God forgiver me once in a great while i play a contemporary music song as i did two weeks ago if we are the Body. why is our arms not reaching. why is our love not showing a better way
what is your thoughts on the cow boy church and country Christian music ?
what makes its unBiblical MAN does its best we part ways on this. were not going to agree. i have a unction /the spirit if truth that tells me truth . .
reminds me of the local bar drinkers many of them think those that smoke pot are evil monsters. while they soak up the beer and get drunk
but no not all ccm is evil find rock music in this song and i will make a post agreeing %100 with you.. just listen to the song i promise it will not condemn you
they probably have that in southern Gospel any one ever heard the testimony of Brian free leader of Brian free and assurance ?
he has played with top chart southern Gospel artist from a young man raised in church played sang gosple music all his life .. shocker of it all he thought he was saved /born again ..i dont recall what age he realized this but .it was his adulthood he Got saved. i agree with your post there is lots groups i know nothing about..
i am very picky on what artist /songs i listen to . i am the same way on t.v preachers . driving in from work on certain days there is a woman on the radio. she says she is full gosple pastor . i do listen to her as i dont want to switch the station.. she does a good job teaching the Bible.
we have to learn to discern truth from false. it just cant be based on opinion because its not our cup of tea.. learn to try the spirits and see if they are of God..
my wife and i went and visited a Church once . we went in sat down.. before services ever started we got up and left. the spirit in me was very uneasy. we have a unction that we may know all things.
in a bit of wisdom a old time preacher man once told me// if you see a crowd rushing over the hill you then see one man walking the other direction. pay attenion to the one man.. he may just know what is going on..
be led of the spirit not by what man has to say in a book . i have to know the truth on my own.
i am sure i sound like a rebel know it all, in this subject post i am reminded of a scene on Walton's mountain . they gathered all book written in German. they was fixing to have a book burning party.. john boy being passionate on books spoke up against it.. he then picked up a book asked a lady that could read German to please translate it to English.. shock it was the Bible printed in German.
there are good and bad in all types music including Christian we should be aware of the groups what they stand for.. no none of the southern of c.c.m can ever replace the old songs like it is well. if memory serves right the author lost all his family to tragedy. amazing grace wrote by a slave trader former . the hymns was wrote out of personal experience.
the southern ccm are songs of message given by God.. the top ten will soon be the bottom 20 and new songs will come along.. but your hymns will stay they stood the test of time.
just remember the wheat and the tares God will sort them out.. find the artist that are true blue... c c m has them southern Gospel has them one of my favorites note 1 lol the Mckameys if you couldn't sense God through the anointing with them. your wood is wet.. Peg i loved it when she got wound up/ her shoes fly across stage and she started shouting...
they testified of the things of God... we have seen them several times years ago i got to give peg a hug. her words to me was pray for us Hon.
there are good and bad in all types music including Christian we should be aware of the groups what they stand for.. no none of the southern of c.c.m can ever replace the old songs like it is well. if memory serves right the author lost all his family to tragedy. amazing grace wrote by a slave trader former . the hymns was wrote out of personal experience.
the southern ccm are songs of message given by God.. the top ten will soon be the bottom 20 and new songs will come along.. but your hymns will stay they stood the test of time.
just remember the wheat and the tares God will sort them out.. find the artist that are true blue... c c m has them southern Gospel has them one of my favorites note 1 lol the Mckameys if you couldn't sense God through the anointing with them. your wood is wet.. Peg i loved it when she got wound up/ her shoes fly across stage and she started shouting...
they testified of the things of God... we have seen them several times years ago i got to give peg a hug. her words to me was pray for us Hon.
I am a country\southern gospel guy, but, I like Casting Crowns. They have a good message in their music and are imo God honoring. A few years ago I heard some teens singing Amazing Grace as a Rap tune. At first I was upset at what they were doing to that song, but, then a thought came to my mind that this could very well be the only way some of these people there will ever be reached to hear the word of God.
this is Christian rock in which i do not listen to.
You said.......
". i would hope you would be Christian enough to listen.."
Did you think that was a good Pastoral thing to say to another Christian???
Do you think that myself and others who do not approve of CCM are NOT Christian enough?
Do you not see how your comment places you in a position of ELIETISM. ???
You said............
"easy there bro when i said i have no objections to your opinion... let me correct one thing before we go farther in to the discussion ...I have NOT allowed you one thing/ when i say i have no objections i am saying i respect your opinion.. you may wonder why i didnt say that... ya know i have no idea . tis just how i say things... "
I have NO idea what you said!
Now what I am saying is this.........
YOU have YOUR opinion and I have mine. WHY then do you feel the need to make an adversarial argument over the difference with personal comments.???
your a good man of God we have worked well together in the past.. yes i think it was good what i said.. we try the spirits to see if they are of God.. Did you listen to the songs? i would hope so but i do wonder.
i am leaving this post after this .in ecclesiastics it talks about as the tree falls so shall it lay Ecclesiastes 11:3 If the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth: and if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be.
if it falls on by door step my job take care of it..
the big problem is minds are closed on the subject no matter how true how sincere born again the artist is.. the music is of the devil..
that is not so in fact its not right. i am sorry your hate for CCM is that way.. i dont believe you should start listening to it. i am very picky on my music when it comes to gospel music which is all scripture based Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn. the word and discernment is how we measure and judge things.
you making words say what has not been said many CCM artist and the songs are jsut as much of God as the hymns..
only thing with hymns they stood the test of time . the southern Gospel songs are of God to .but will soon fade way just like the CCM songs and the country Gospel . i actually knew in advance what the post would be like.. just like the free will went----------------south.
for the record i am 199% opposed to trading the hymns in for CCM . i am for them being sang by individuals or even in group singing as type praise and worship .
i even expect this thread to be closed have a good day
it is NOT adversarial argument. i plainly stated the word discussion . had it been argument i would have said your all the way wrong and would have listed where you was in the wrong.. its a generation difference most all your generation age group feels same way about CCM.. this generation and maybe some of mine . is switching to CCM instead of hymns . once again i state i am against such move
i am done i wish to discuss this matter no longer
I like Scripture in Song.
They were popular in the 70s and 80s but I wasn't born or in church then. lol.
I discovered them and they were still going in THEIR 70s but passing the baton on to the younger generation. They are not connected to CCM or Hillsong.
The couple are Dave and Dale Garrett. They often did live recordings of whole churches singing and all their musicians were anointed, some had never played before but it was God choosing them over accomplished musicians who maybe knew how to play instruments but were NOT believers.
Most of their songs are just what they say, scripture set to music, and I think you can still find their songbooks if you look hard enough, I found them in 2nd hand christian bookshop. But they have put out some albums recently, the latest was their 50th anniversary I think. 'Father make us one' is one of theirs. They have also done spiritual warfare/combat songs.
They were popular in the 70s and 80s but I wasn't born or in church then. lol.
I discovered them and they were still going in THEIR 70s but passing the baton on to the younger generation. They are not connected to CCM or Hillsong.
The couple are Dave and Dale Garrett. They often did live recordings of whole churches singing and all their musicians were anointed, some had never played before but it was God choosing them over accomplished musicians who maybe knew how to play instruments but were NOT believers.
Most of their songs are just what they say, scripture set to music, and I think you can still find their songbooks if you look hard enough, I found them in 2nd hand christian bookshop. But they have put out some albums recently, the latest was their 50th anniversary I think. 'Father make us one' is one of theirs. They have also done spiritual warfare/combat songs.
You said............
"I have also seen those who love to listen to CCM cds, sing along CCM music during worship service, attend Christian music concerts and afterward express what a wonderful feeling, but soon forget the praise and worship until the next gathering. That is not worship."
I agree 100%!!!!!!!!
And THAT is exactly what I have been saying. A temporary, excitement of musical rhythms and beats along with waving hands for 30 minutes does not equal worship. That is exactly what is done at a Rolling Stones concert.
Revelation 18:4-5 reads........
“And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.’”
To be "not of the world" requires us to be free of worldly influence. This does not mean that we do not participate in government or typical social processes. It means that we do not act as the unsaved world does. We are not slaves to our sinful natures but act in accordance with righteousness .
At this point in the thread, I would like to make it abundantly clear that It is not my intention to criticize or offend anyone or to appear self-righteous in any way.
I come from the perspective that I believe we are presently living in the end age and the much anticipated return of Christ is imminent. With that being said, I also believe, because we are living in the end age, Satan is working harder now than ever before to deceive “the very elect”. I believe with all my heart that we must remain vigilant in protecting ourselves from the “wiles of the enemy”.
The apostle Paul wrote in 2 Tim. 3:5-6........
“Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts.”