Who is the TRUE CHRIST?

G

grigoryamitai

Today we hear several identifications of “JESUS CHRIST”:

These are the different identities of "JESUS CHRIST" being preached:

1. JESUS CHRIST is only a man and not God (also called the Arian doctrine)
2. JESUS CHRIST is only the “mighty” or junior God, for the FATHER is the Almighty God (the Jehovah doctrine)
3. JESUS CHRIST is the NAME of the Father and Holy Spirit (the Oneness or Sabellian doctrine)
4. JESUS CHRIST is both God and man, the 2nd person of the blessed Trinity (The Athanacian Creed)

WHO, really, is the True CHRIST, JESUS of the original Apostles?
 
It is forgiveable for a man to not see a fellow man as God of the universe...in the absence of a revelation from above or knowledge of scripture.

All that really matters is that when the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to us, it is as Lord.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The problem is that 'man says'...without the Holy Ghost.

I would imagine lateral thought off non related scriptures also lead to this realization. God is light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5 + God is love 1 John 4:8 + God is good Psalm 136:1 + greatest love is to lay down your life John 15:13 = God can't but lay down His life for us. God would not use some random unlucky fella for the cross.
 
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grigoryamitai said:
Today we hear several identifications of “JESUS CHRIST”:

These are the different identities of "JESUS CHRIST" being preached:

1. JESUS CHRIST is only a man and not God (also called the Arian doctrine)
2. JESUS CHRIST is only the “mighty” or junior God, for the FATHER is the Almighty God (the Jehovah doctrine)
3. JESUS CHRIST is the NAME of the Father and Holy Spirit (the Oneness or Sabellian doctrine)
4. JESUS CHRIST is both God and man, the 2nd person of the blessed Trinity (The Athanacian Creed)

WHO, really, is the True CHRIST, JESUS of the original Apostles?
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This is not a new question. Jesus asked the very same question 2000 years ago to Peter in Matthew 16:13-16...........
" When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

When the expression of "Son of God" is used concerning Christ, it delineates the relationship between the 1st two persons of the Trinity. The Hebrew expression "SON OF' implies one with the same nature as the Father. In that sense there is then no difference between "Son of God" and "God the Son". Both show and emphasize the deity of Christ and His unique relationship with the Father.
 
Major said:
This is not a new question. Jesus asked the very same question 2000 years ago to Peter in Matthew 16:13-16...........
" When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

When the expression of "Son of God" is used concerning Christ, it delineates the relationship between the 1st two persons of the Trinity. The Hebrew expression "SON OF' implies one with the same nature as the Father. In that sense there is then no difference between "Son of God" and "God the Son". Both show and emphasize the deity of Christ and His unique relationship with the Father.
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If I may add, only Holy Spirit can actually reveal who Jesus Christ is to anyone. People with just intellectual knowledge can never understand the identity of Christ. That is also quite evident when Jesus says flesh and blood did not reveal it to Peter.
 
In the Old Testament, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, also known as Father GOD claimed the following:

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

In the NEW TESTAMENT, John, the beloved Apostle, testified JESUS CHRIST is the True God:

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Who, then, is the GOD of the Holy Bible?
 
grigoryamitai said:
Today we hear several identifications of “JESUS CHRIST”:

These are the different identities of "JESUS CHRIST" being preached:

1. JESUS CHRIST is only a man and not God (also called the Arian doctrine)
2. JESUS CHRIST is only the “mighty” or junior God, for the FATHER is the Almighty God (the Jehovah doctrine)
3. JESUS CHRIST is the NAME of the Father and Holy Spirit (the Oneness or Sabellian doctrine)
4. JESUS CHRIST is both God and man, the 2nd person of the blessed Trinity (The Athanacian Creed)

WHO, really, is the True CHRIST, JESUS of the original Apostles?
Click to expand...

On the concept/ idea of : "Identification"

Yes, a person can be identified as:
"FROM" where he is from?
Or
"FOR" : what he is for..

I think:
FROM: put emphasis on one’s status, authority, rightful place
FOR: put emphasis on what person is task to do for…

a. Christ FROM
b. Christ FOR

Studying (a) FROM …. I think put emphasis on identity as : the authority of Jesus Christ….
Studying (b) FOR… I think put emphasis on identity as: the Savior, the Redeemer in Jesus Christ....

Just a thought, that I think related on the topic: "identification"
 
Comparing Father GOD with JESUS CHRIST in the Old and New Testaments, we read the following:

Father GOD claims He is the only Savior:
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

JESUS CHRIST vividly written is the Savior as evidenced by His death on the cross:
Luke 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, :47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Does it mean there are 2 saviors or only 1?
Does it mean Father God is the GOD in the Old Testament, and Jesus Christ is the GOD in the New Testament?
Reconciling these two "entities" into ONE is what I mean by "identification of GOD of the Holy Bible".
 
grigoryamitai said:
Today we hear several identifications of “JESUS CHRIST”:

These are the different identities of "JESUS CHRIST" being preached:

1. JESUS CHRIST is only a man and not God (also called the Arian doctrine)
2. JESUS CHRIST is only the “mighty” or junior God, for the FATHER is the Almighty God (the Jehovah doctrine)
3. JESUS CHRIST is the NAME of the Father and Holy Spirit (the Oneness or Sabellian doctrine)
4. JESUS CHRIST is both God and man, the 2nd person of the blessed Trinity (The Athanacian Creed)

WHO, really, is the True CHRIST, JESUS of the original Apostles?
Click to expand...
Isa 9:6-7 (KJV)
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.​

1John 4:14 (KJV)
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.​

Rom 5:8-9 (KJV)
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.​

That is who Jesus is.
 
Reconciling God and Savior in the Old Testament claimed by the "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" also known as "Father GOD" in Isaiah 43:10-11; and the God and Savior in the New Testament we all read in many verses pointing to "JESUS CHRIST"; has not been reconciled for more than 2000 years, then the identity of "GOD of the Holy Bible" must indeed a "mystery"!

However, we read PETER and PAUL and the original Apostles were not subject to the rebuke of JESUS CHRIST in:

John 8:19 ... Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Does GOD really intend that we cannot identify HIM? Is not this contrary to the TRUTH contained in His "love letter" to us?

I consider this, something to think about.
How about you, my brethren?
 
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grigoryamitai said:
Reconciling God and Savior in the Old Testament claimed by the "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" also known as "Father GOD" in Isaiah 43:10-11; and the God and Savior in the New Testament we all read in many verses pointing to "JESUS CHRIST"; has not been reconciled for more than 2000 years, then the identity of "GOD of the Holy Bible" must indeed a "mystery"!

However, we read PETER and PAUL and the original Apostles were not subject to the rebuke of JESUS CHRIST in:

John 8:19 ... Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Does GOD really intend that we cannot identify HIM? Is not this contrary to the TRUTH contained in His "love letter" to us?

I consider this, something to think about.
How about you, my brethren?
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Jesus is not saying '''you should have known my Father''' even though He says that :). He is saying 'if you know me, you know my Father'. Because thay asked Him 'where is thy Father'. Jesus is responding in disbelief / shock.

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 14:8-11Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” 9 Jesus said to him,“Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
 
grigoryamitai said:
4. JESUS CHRIST is both God and man, the 2nd person of the blessed Trinity (The Athanacian Creed)
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Philippians 2:6-11
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Proverbs 8:22-31
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Colossians 1:15-19
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones,
or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Titus 2:13-14
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These are just a few scriptures that came to mind without opening up Bible studies; such as Naves, or Vines, etc.
Any good Bible study book would have ample scriptures testifying to the existence of Jesus and his work before his physical human birth.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Jesus talking to Nicodemus in John chapter 3 - clearly claims that he had ascended and descended from Heaven.
 
I sincerely believe that, just as God introduced Himself to Peter and Paul and to the original Apostles He cannot be unfair to us denying this great privilege of identifying HIM.

Is not God just? Is He not merciful? Is He not love?
Since the purpose of God in creating us is to become His eternal companions, "LOVE must stand on mutual IDENTIFICATION".

Hence, I believe "identification" must start from "salvation", since God planned man's salvation. This is what I read about God making a covenant or testament with Abraham and his "seeds" to become His "chosen".
Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant
between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their
generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God
unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Later, God revealed "other nationalities" are included in this "testament of salvation".
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor
female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. :29 And if
ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs
according to the promise.

The question now is, how can we be Christ's if we DON'T KNOW HIM?

Comes now the different identifications of "Jesus Christ". Hence, who is the TRUE CHRIST?
 
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grigoryamitai said:
privilege of identifying HIM.
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This is achieved when one believes and obeys the original Pentecost/Apostolic gospel - when a believer fulfills John 3:3-8
and is born anew, with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues [praying in the Spirit].
Then I know my God, then I know Jesus is my Lord and my Saviour. The Spirit of truth teaches me who Jesus is and of his righteousness.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth,
which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;
but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.
16:15 All things that the Father has are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abides in you, and ye need not that any man teach you:
but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD:
for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity,
and I will remember their sin no more.
 
Matthew 19:4-6New King James Version (NKJV)
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who madea]'>[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’b]'>[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?c]'>[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Man and Wife is obviously two "flesh"

but the red underline says "one"...

How can I can say "not one" when that is what clearly says in the Bible "one"… it says it is one, it is one...

so, I say to myself: Man and Wife are surely two DISTINCT person, but only ONE...
 
John 17:20-23King James Version (KJV)
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


Same manner: "All" mentioned above are distinct person, but is says "one"
 
grigoryamitai said:
I sincerely believe that, just as God introduced Himself to Peter and Paul and to the original Apostles He cannot be unfair to us denying this great privilege of identifying HIM.

Is not God just? Is He not merciful? Is He not love?
Since the purpose of God in creating us is to become His eternal companions, "LOVE must stand on mutual IDENTIFICATION".

Hence, I believe "identification" must start from "salvation", since God planned man's salvation. This is what I read about God making a covenant or testament with Abraham and his "seeds" to become His "chosen".
Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant
between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their
generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God
unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Later, God revealed "other nationalities" are included in this "testament of salvation".
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor
female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. :29 And if
ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs
according to the promise.

The question now is, how can we be Christ's if we DON'T KNOW HIM?

Comes now the different identifications of "Jesus Christ". Hence, who is the TRUE CHRIST?
Click to expand...
Those who "know" God are the ones who have eternal life. Knowing about him in what he has said or done through reading the Bible does not give one this life.

John 17:2.. As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John 17:3.. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jesus said.....

John 14:21.. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Keeping (guarding) the Word of God in you by protecting it from the things of this world, from the lusts of other things, the deceitfulness of riches will cause the Word of God to produced it's "first fruit" which is the "new birth". Being born again by the incorruptible seed of the Word of God.(1 Peter 1:23)
Jesus said those who love me keep my Word, and I will love him back by "manifesting my self to him" When Jesus manifests himself to a person he reveals himself in a way your flesh and blood can not receive. The word manifest means "to make visible, to uncover something that was once hidden. I guarantee when this happens you will encounter Jesus, and you will begin to have fellowship with him in a way you never thought possible. You go from knowing about him to knowing him up close and personal.
 
Our topic is, who is the "TRUE CHRIST"?

Jesus Christ introduced Himself to Saul of Tarsus, formerly his enemy, making him recognized "his GOD". Simon Peter, a humble fisherman, was privileged to identify Jesus Christ, "not with his flesh and blood but by the revelation of the Father which is in heaven".

Cannot GOD endow us the same privilege of identifying HIM as Peter and Paul? I believe:
* God is kind
* God is fair, just, and non-discriminatory
* God is merciful
* God is love

Brethren, are we asking God too much to accord us the same favor as Christ's Disciples during His time?

I cannot put out of my mind that "To KNOW comes before LOVE".

Who, really, is JESUS CHRIST in relation to the GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, also known as Father GOD?
 
grigoryamitai said:
Cannot GOD endow us the same privilege of identifying HIM as Peter and Paul?
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Absolutely not!! God reveals himself to all those who are seeking him with all their heart. Does not the scriptures tell us that we are to see Jesus crowned with Glory and honor?

Heb 2:8.. Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9.. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

2Co 3:18.. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

How can you be changed into his image if you have never seen him?
Never ever limit God or your faith in believing the Word of God in what it says. If you do you will never grow in the Lord or the power of his might.
 
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