Who-What are the Oracles

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In Acts 7:38, we read:

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The word translated "oracle" (G3051) actually means "In the N. T. spoken of the words or utterances of God: of the contents of the Mosaic law."

And again:

Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Matthew 5:17 is a good case in point as well. What does it mean when Jesus fulfilled the Law?

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The Greek word translated "fulfill," according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, means the following:

"universally and absolutely, to fulfil, i. e. "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment": Matthew 5:17; cf. Weiss, Das Matthäusevang. as above with, p. 146f"

Oops!

It's absolutely true that the perfect Law of God cannot save mankind because of its weakness in us on account of our flesh, but why is it not taught in Sunday school and Bible studies, as if it has been abolished to the point that we ignore it?

I've always held God's Law in the highest regard and admiration. I love His Law. As Paul of Tarsus said, it is by the Law that we know what sin is, and yet it is ignored as if it's not even there.

So, what are your thoughts about the perfection of the Law of God, and that, as seen above, fulfillment doesn't mean abolishment, nor that we should cease teaching from it? This isn't about the legalism charge that so many have laid at the feet of those who teach from the Law. There are some seriously unhealthy attitudes out there toward the word of God that really need to be dealt with from what ALL of scripture has to say on the matter.

What say you?

MM
 
Yes, CN. Thank you. One of the main thrusts I'm putting forth here is the lack of study, because of we don't study, how can we be approved, as Paul of Tarsus commanded. There seems to be no desire to study the perfect Law. The laziness instilled into so many by not studying is a serious flaw in most of our Romish system of churches.

Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.

Acts 22:3 I am verily a man [which am] a Jew, born in Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

The Law was never intended as an instrument for salvation. It could not save because of the weakness (fallenness) of our flesh. I presented in the OP that fulfillment does not mean that we can cast aside that which is perfect. Why would anyone in their right minds do that, and yet here we are reading Sunday school lessons, books and article promoting the idea that it's ok to NOT become educated on that which is perfect.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

The sacrifices were only a covering, but this text and all others dealing with the moral perfection within the Law was ever something to be disregarded in our teaching since we know that without those moral precepts, there would be no sin. But, those moral precepts ARE written for our study, and that we can only be strengthened through such study:

Psalm 119:45-48

45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts. 46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed. 47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved. 48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.

Why people lump the moral Law and commandments into the ceremonial sin covering that has been done away with in Christ, I don't understand, other than it has been a tremendous work of Satan throughout the church systems.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

What's strange is that all the apologetics I've seen whereby the naysayers demand that the above was changed or done away with by the cross...oh, man. The fallacies in their hermeneutics and eisegetical injections into the text are amazing to behold.

So, dare one simply pray, study, meditate, and do as 1 John 2:27 instructs, each one will receive the truth from the Spirit. Nobody has to take my word for it from the presentation made here. Just seek out the Lord for His guidance, with a willingness to lay aside all your strongholds of belief to make room for the instruction from the Spirit of the Lord.

There cannot be a charge made for error when the focus is upon the Spirit of the Lord, and letting the word of God speak for itself without the colored glasses of Romish corruptions. That which is perfect does not and cannot pass away. The Cup of the New Covenant brought the completion of our redemption from the curse of the Law. That is not a release from studying the commandments and precepts to be knowledgeable of that which Paul said is the very definition of sin, without which we could never have been held accountable, but are NOW held to account when we have not the cleansing away of the penalty for sin.

Ephesians 4:11-16

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The cunning deception is the tossing aside of the initial, perfect precepts that pointed to the bringing in of the perfect redemption. Jesus at no time ever cast aside His perfect Law. He strengthened it through the redemption found only in His blood. Why that translates into casting aside study and obedience based only on what one feels within themselves, all without knowledge, that strikes me as a level of pride that is a fundamental blunder of the worst sort.

Just wanted to encourage more study, and less assumption and ignorance.

MM
 
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In Acts 7:38, we read:

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The word translated "oracle" (G3051) actually means "In the N. T. spoken of the words or utterances of God: of the contents of the Mosaic law."

And again:

Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Matthew 5:17 is a good case in point as well. What does it mean when Jesus fulfilled the Law?

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The Greek word translated "fulfill," according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, means the following:

"universally and absolutely, to fulfil, i. e. "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment": Matthew 5:17; cf. Weiss, Das Matthäusevang. as above with, p. 146f"

Oops!

It's absolutely true that the perfect Law of God cannot save mankind because of its weakness in us on account of our flesh, but why is it not taught in Sunday school and Bible studies, as if it has been abolished to the point that we ignore it?

I've always held God's Law in the highest regard and admiration. I love His Law. As Paul of Tarsus said, it is by the Law that we know what sin is, and yet it is ignored as if it's not even there.

So, what are your thoughts about the perfection of the Law of God, and that, as seen above, fulfillment doesn't mean abolishment, nor that we should cease teaching from it? This isn't about the legalism charge that so many have laid at the feet of those who teach from the Law. There are some seriously unhealthy attitudes out there toward the word of God that really need to be dealt with from what ALL of scripture has to say on the matter.

What say you?

MM
Living Oracles of God would be the scriptures themselves!
 
In Acts 7:38, we read:

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The word translated "oracle" (G3051) actually means "In the N. T. spoken of the words or utterances of God: of the contents of the Mosaic law."

And again:

Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Matthew 5:17 is a good case in point as well. What does it mean when Jesus fulfilled the Law?

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The Greek word translated "fulfill," according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, means the following:

"universally and absolutely, to fulfil, i. e. "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment": Matthew 5:17; cf. Weiss, Das Matthäusevang. as above with, p. 146f"

Oops!

It's absolutely true that the perfect Law of God cannot save mankind because of its weakness in us on account of our flesh, but why is it not taught in Sunday school and Bible studies, as if it has been abolished to the point that we ignore it?

I've always held God's Law in the highest regard and admiration. I love His Law. As Paul of Tarsus said, it is by the Law that we know what sin is, and yet it is ignored as if it's not even there.

So, what are your thoughts about the perfection of the Law of God, and that, as seen above, fulfillment doesn't mean abolishment, nor that we should cease teaching from it? This isn't about the legalism charge that so many have laid at the feet of those who teach from the Law. There are some seriously unhealthy attitudes out there toward the word of God that really need to be dealt with from what ALL of scripture has to say on the matter.

What say you?

MM

The Law of God is GOOD!

God gave it so it is actually perfect!

The Commandments are not laws devised by Moses and given only to Israel. They were binding before Moses' time, as well as during and after Jesus Christ's life. In fact, the Ten Commandments have been in full force and effect since creation. They are still binding on us today! They are not just "church rituals" or "good suggestions," but the very code of conduct of our God!
 
Living Oracles of God would be the scriptures themselves!
Yes, and what's overlooked by so many is that the context points precisely to the "utterances of God: of the contents of the Mosaic law." In that Law are the very definitions of sin.

What's tragic is that so many gravitate toward the extreme charge of "legalism" rather than to read what's being presented. Nobody can or will be justified by the Law. It has always been that way, and always will be. The flesh is too weak for that.

The problem is the lack of teaching/studying the very foundation upon which Christ lived and breathed. He's the origin of the Law, and He never nullified it. Had He done that, there would be no sin to stand as the condemnation of those who perish without Christ. The idea that the "new" commandments Christ gave to us are the only teachings He has for us to study and to take to heart, that's a horrid state of mind that denies the substance of the vast majority of scripture.

Letting the Spirit of the Lord lead one to the understanding about these things is what I'm pointing toward. Nothing more. If you think you feel the Lord is telling you to disregard the teachings of the Lord in His foundational Law to the world, then I would suggest one revisit the written word, and read again what's actually said so that such a thought can be brought under bondage to the purity of the word of the Lord as it is written rather than the blinders of dead, renegade, lone-star religion.

MM
 
The Law of God is GOOD!

God gave it so it is actually perfect!

The Commandments are not laws devised by Moses and given only to Israel. They were binding before Moses' time, as well as during and after Jesus Christ's life. In fact, the Ten Commandments have been in full force and effect since creation. They are still binding on us today! They are not just "church rituals" or "good suggestions," but the very code of conduct of our God!
Thank you, brother. That is so very true.

MM
 
The Law of God is GOOD!

God gave it so it is actually perfect!

The Commandments are not laws devised by Moses and given only to Israel. They were binding before Moses' time, as well as during and after Jesus Christ's life. In fact, the Ten Commandments have been in full force and effect since creation. They are still binding on us today! They are not just "church rituals" or "good suggestions," but the very code of conduct of our God!
They reflect the moral character of God, but problem is that never was meant to ne the way to get saved, as it shows to us none can be justified as none can keep them, and so must lean upon Christ to save!
 
They reflect the moral character of God, but problem is that never was meant to ne the way to get saved, as it shows to us none can be justified as none can keep them, and so must lean upon Christ to save!

YF, going to the extreme of salvation in relation to what we are saying here is not at all consistent with the message written here about this topic.

It's already been stated that Christ alone is our salvation. It's the Romish system that keeps pushing people to assume that speaking of Torah is nothing more than legalistic salvation through the Law.

That is an unfair and inflammatory extreme your shoving into this that's simply not at all representative of what we're saying.

Please at least comment upon our acknowledgement of Christ alone as our salvation so that we can get past this pothole and discuss this reasonably consistent with what we've been saying all along. Your point is well taken, but some may follow along with your statements, without having read what we actually said, and assume we're legalists who think the Law could ever save anyone born under the Adamic sin.

MM
 
YF, going to the extreme of salvation in relation to what we are saying here is not at all consistent with the message written here about this topic.

It's already been stated that Christ alone is our salvation. It's the Romish system that keeps pushing people to assume that speaking of Torah is nothing more than legalistic salvation through the Law.

That is an unfair and inflammatory extreme your shoving into this that's simply not at all representative of what we're saying.

Please at least comment upon our acknowledgement of Christ alone as our salvation so that we can get past this pothole and discuss this reasonably consistent with what we've been saying all along. Your point is well taken, but some may follow along with your statements, without having read what we actually said, and assume we're legalists who think the Law could ever save anyone born under the Adamic sin.

MM
I was not saying you or anyone else posting were saying law saved, but there are many still under bondage of trying to get saved by it!
 
I was not saying you or anyone else posting were saying law saved, but there are many still under bondage of trying to get saved by it!

Ok. Thanks for the clarification, but that was not apparent in the previous post of yours.

As a reiteration to the casual reader, please understand that salvation could NEVER have come by the Law for fallen mankind...not back in ancient times before the cross, nor after.

Thanks, YF.

MM
 

bobinfaith

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Hello Musicmaster;

The thrust of your thread is as you posted, "The problem is the lack of teaching/studying the very foundation upon which Christ lived and breathed. He's the origin of the Law, and He never nullified it. Had He done that, there would be no sin to stand as the condemnation of those who perish without Christ. The idea that the "new" commandments Christ gave to us are the only teachings He has for us to study and to take to heart, that's a horrid state of mind that denies the substance of the vast majority of scripture."

I love God and His Whole teachings and they are never ending in my daily walk with Christ. But not everyone in the church feels the same way as I do, and to be honest I don't feel the same way as other Christians who blow me away, what I mean is, their personal devotion to God, personal devotions that minister to me.

Alas, but the ones who choose their priorities and make God second, well, they don't get it. They probably would be lost in this topic.

Jesus went through this daily. He covered a lot of ground sharing the Good News, and how would we feel if He threw His hands up in the air when we lack the teaching and zeal to study His Word?

I am thankful He didn't!

We need to remember we all are sheep who need that one Shepherd. Some sheep just don't get it and place God second, and not prioritizing their study and learning the very foundation Christ lived and breathed.

So what do we do? Well, for starters, stop relying on the one teacher or preacher to take the lead. Whether we start off small or large, we're all empowered to love, encourage, study, apply and share with others who Christ is.

For example, before I became a Pastor I sat side by side with a brother in Christ and long time friend for 32 years. For a long time he and his wife have attended church but he struggled with his discipleship, studying and praying.

I remember how Jesus didn't give up on us and I wanted to emulate that and it wasn't easy. But in 2021 the Lord filled my brother with opened eyes, ears and heart. He knows where to find Scripture, he shares more in Bible study, prays more openly, reads the Scripture during Worship service before the sermon, and his zeal to serve in ministry is a wonderful transformation.

I believe this stems from God's oracles when God gave the Law to Moses who taught Israel as a sign of God's covenant with His people. Still, many Jews and Christians were not grasping even the basic teachings of God's Word. God extends His oracles by raising teachers. Still, many Jews and Christians were not growing. They preferred milk because it is easy to swallow and the comfort level was safe and familiar.

God is a forward thinking God and His oracle is an indication that God expects us to grow forward but it takes discipline on our part in order for us to mature, put away the milk and digest solid food for our Spiritual growth. Tradition can be very comfortable but throughout history tradition has adapted to change, God's change, thus His prophecy for the future.

MM writes,
"It's absolutely true that the perfect Law of God cannot save mankind because of its weakness in us on account of our flesh, but why is it not taught in Sunday school and Bible studies, as if it has been abolished to the point that we ignore it?"

There will be many that Jesus teaches in Matthew 24 that will turn from their faith. My hope is more and more proclaimed believers in Christ will learn that our study and application of the Scriptures are a command, not a suggestion. The study of God's Word will help us learn about being saved, salvation, oracles, and more that He reveals to those who stand firm until the end.

God bless you, Musicmaster for sharing this topic.
 
Bob, may this all serve to prompt others to bow down to their knees and seek Yah for His wondrous and glorious in-filling with His Spirit to empower their understanding, and move ever closer to closing off more and more avenues of sin in their lives because of their ignorance of what Paul of Tarsus stated to us; without the Law, there is no sin.

Yes, folks, Torah can help each one of us to close one door after another to the sin in our lives be way of our knowledge of it. The Law also teaches us about TRUE Love. Embrace the word of God like nothing else in your life. In so doing, you will become a blessing to your families. Men, be the priests in your homes. Wives, be the servants of your Lord by nurturing your children and standing by your husband as an encourager, because you will receive back a loving admiration like never before. But, it all MUST start with you husbands as the spiritual leaders in your homes.

I am no longer a husband. She was taken from me last month...perhaps for such a time as this. I don't know. What I do know is that chapter in my life is over for now, but I will continue on alone to bring up my sons in the admonition of the Lord, and to know His teachings and His instructions to us.

Glory to the Lord Most High.

MM
 
The Law is perfect, but no flesh can ever been justified by it, as we are far from perfect!

Yes. I fully agree. Thank you, my fellow servant of the Lord.

YF, if I may:

When we study to show ourselves approved, that is the greater means by which the Lord can then take what He has taught us in His word, and writes those things of His Law upon our hearts. Seeking to do them helps to harbor us against the temptations for sin, which I'm sure we can agree is a good thing.

It is by the Power of the Spirit within us that we are then able to resist the temptations for sin, sustained and strengthened at the level of the promise that He would never allow us to be tempted beyond our means to resist. Without studying and learning, what will He write upon our hearts, because leaving all the effort to the Lord to do all the footwork for us is not what Paul of Tarsus spoke to us. I realize you didn't say this, but it's important that all others see it.

So this, then, progresses into a discussion on matters such as purposeful sins verses the "accidental" or "unintentional" sins. It seems reasonable that the one who practices continual, ongoing sin is not yet born again, according to the first of the two Commandments, and therefore loves not the Lord.

This is sobering stuff that deserves all our attention, because sinning out of ignorance should be of concern to us all.

MM
 
Yes. I fully agree. Thank you, my fellow servant of the Lord.

YF, if I may:

When we study to show ourselves approved, that is the greater means by which the Lord can then take what He has taught us in His word, and writes those things of His Law upon our hearts. Seeking to do them helps to harbor us against the temptations for sin, which I'm sure we can agree is a good thing.

It is by the Power of the Spirit within us that we are then able to resist the temptations for sin, sustained and strengthened at the level of the promise that He would never allow us to be tempted beyond our means to resist. Without studying and learning, what will He write upon our hearts, because leaving all the effort to the Lord to do all the footwork for us is not what Paul of Tarsus spoke to us. I realize you didn't say this, but it's important that all others see it.

So this, then, progresses into a discussion on matters such as purposeful sins verses the "accidental" or "unintentional" sins. It seems reasonable that the one who practices continual, ongoing sin is not yet born again, according to the first of the two Commandments, and therefore loves not the Lord.

This is sobering stuff that deserves all our attention, because sinning out of ignorance should be of concern to us all.

MM
Amazing to me that some still want to live by the Law, as in keeping Sabbath, Jewish diets, for if you go that route, have to keep it all!
 
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