The simple answer is, God is Perfect and we are imperfect. People understand the truth in different ways. This is not because Bible contradicts itself. It is not because Bible is not clear on certain areas (certain things are hidden in Bible, not left as grey areas). It is only because the hearers are imperfect. We hear the truth in the middle of so much noise. There are some groups who outright reject true gospel and want to add things to Bible on their own. These are just cults. Groups that go by ideas of men. There are denominations within Church because people simply cannot agree on secondary things. While there is so much in common, there are little things not in common. You will be fine as long as the Church remains true to the Gospel message. Denomination name means nothing. A well known denominational Church could very well be teaching all sorts of false teachings. I go to AG Church. And I believe in predestination and do not believe speaking in tongues is must for one to be filled with Holy Spirit. I have talked with my Pastor before becoming member of the Church as well. I love the true worship, love Bible study, outreach, passion for reaching out to lost ones, sermons, etc. While there is little disagreement on doctrine, I still love my Church because there is so much in common.
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Thats intersting about the 'sing acapella' do you think some churches because they have loud musical instruments in their praise and worship are not all singing with grace in their hearts?
I have been to visit many different churches but it does seem many of them have at least one person providing musical accompaniement...whther its keyboard, guitar, or piano, though sometimes its a full on band with drums and bass. And sometimes these instruments are so loud or overpowering that its kind of hard to sing.
Its only in smaller gatherings that maybe everyone is singing acapella. And I sometimes womder why not many are playing other instruments like harp or flute, or cello. Or trumpet. After all in revelation often says we will rise at the last trump and the angels are sounding their trumpets. They arent sounding their guitars, keyboards or drums.
Although the salvatian army are often known for their brass band.
I have been to visit many different churches but it does seem many of them have at least one person providing musical accompaniement...whther its keyboard, guitar, or piano, though sometimes its a full on band with drums and bass. And sometimes these instruments are so loud or overpowering that its kind of hard to sing.
Its only in smaller gatherings that maybe everyone is singing acapella. And I sometimes womder why not many are playing other instruments like harp or flute, or cello. Or trumpet. After all in revelation often says we will rise at the last trump and the angels are sounding their trumpets. They arent sounding their guitars, keyboards or drums.
Although the salvatian army are often known for their brass band.
Hi Lanolin,
The list I provided was something I saw in a video I watched. I am unsure of what to think about the musical aspect. The church I attend starts off every service with that I say closely resembles a full band. Sometimes there are as many as 10 - 12 people on state. Key board, drums, guitars (multiple) and as many as five vocalists. It is loud, but it it good.
Below is that it looks like from the side of the stage. Last Sunday, the lead female vocalist was unbelievable. Personally, I have no issues with this.
It is a large church, but feels warm and friendly.
rtm3039
Hmm ok,
Well I like having musical acompaniment but if nobodys playing im fine with acapella as well. I am not a musician so it doesnt bother me, but if some congregations say you arent allowed to play your instrument and I was a musican maybe I would feel left out. Perhaps playing an instrument is some peoples way of singing, as not everyone can sing either. Does say make melody, which can involve, humming, clapping, or playing an instrument. David played his ten string harp to sooth saul. And miriram had her tambourine. And also dont forget that popular christmas carol about the drummer boy!
Also revelation shows not just people singing, but harpers playing their harps. See revelation 14:2
Althougn it does go on to say only the 144,000 could learn that new song.
Maybe that particular church group had no musicians or...they had a bad experince with their musicians and decided we not going to have them. Also I know of one church that had their musical instruments stolen and so they just couldnt play them.
Well I like having musical acompaniment but if nobodys playing im fine with acapella as well. I am not a musician so it doesnt bother me, but if some congregations say you arent allowed to play your instrument and I was a musican maybe I would feel left out. Perhaps playing an instrument is some peoples way of singing, as not everyone can sing either. Does say make melody, which can involve, humming, clapping, or playing an instrument. David played his ten string harp to sooth saul. And miriram had her tambourine. And also dont forget that popular christmas carol about the drummer boy!
Also revelation shows not just people singing, but harpers playing their harps. See revelation 14:2
Althougn it does go on to say only the 144,000 could learn that new song.
Maybe that particular church group had no musicians or...they had a bad experince with their musicians and decided we not going to have them. Also I know of one church that had their musical instruments stolen and so they just couldnt play them.
It has been my experience that there is little that stirs up emotion more than music and song. The key is, at least in my opinion and in the context of paying honor to the Lord, is to listed to the words. Yes, sometimes the instrumentation can get a little loud; however, the true gift is in what is being said and how in touches your very soul.
rtm3039
that is my favorite Christmas song, it is close to my heart as am once a little drummer boy in a Christmas program during kindergarten : )
I have no gift to bring that's fit to give the King, pa rum pa pum pum...
"Little Baby, pa rum pum pum pum
I am a poor boy too, pa rum pum pum pum
I have no gift to bring, pa rum pum pum pum
That's fit to give the King, pa rum pum pum pum,
Rum pum pum pum, rum pum pum pum,"
I don't think congregations that serve God are the issue as pertains to the denominational structure system that often fragments the faithful as pertains to dogma and doctrinal issues.
A great hammer would keep to the identity of a hammer and serve as a hammer should. Construction metaphors not withstanding, what we're witnessing in this new century especially are hammers hoping to be a multi-tool. A hammer, a screwdriver and a flashlight. Example, those denominations that approve sexual immorality and those sinners entering into marriage and go so far as to perform the ceremony within that denominations church. And/Or to allow sexually immoral members to serve as Deacons, Pastors, etc...
Those tools have left the tool bag and are a whole new breed of tool. However, they are not that tool that serves the master carpenter. And I believe it important to distinguish the difference. We shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free. Amen.
Hmm the tool analogy not sure about but I do know some gadgets end up being a bit useless and make more work for what they trying to solve! But then again they might be ingenious.
Google Chindogu
Modern day example - the selfie stick? Actually useless in of itself except used by people who always take selfies.
Or the umbrella hat. Keeps the rain off your head and you dont need to hold it. Or you could just wear a hood.
Google Chindogu
Modern day example - the selfie stick? Actually useless in of itself except used by people who always take selfies.
Or the umbrella hat. Keeps the rain off your head and you dont need to hold it. Or you could just wear a hood.
Hey rtm3039;
In the link photo of this church worship, is this the church you're attending?
View attachment 4144
I meant to ask this a couple of weeks ago.
God bless you, brother, and your family.
Yes it is. Some people do not like the music part, but it is really good and inspirational.
rtm3039
Bless you and your family back
I agree with your thesis my brother.
There is a Bible doctrine that is hardly even considered any more and it is called "SEPERATION".
2 Peter 2:1...…….
"But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. "
Romans 16:17...…...
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them"
The believer's separation from evil and every false way is always God's order. We were called to be separated unto Christ and declared positionally sanctified "in Him" the moment we believed and were saved. In our Christian lives we are admonished to walk in a sanctified, separated manner which is worthy of our "...high calling of God in Christ Jesus." And when our Lord comes back again and catches away His Bride, we will be partakers of that great, final separation! Yes, indeed, separation is a precious Biblical truth-past, present and future.
What does that mean in plain Alabama language?????
When we got saved we should not hang with drunks anymore. The house of God should be our hang out and not Charlie's Bar.
IF we still hang out at the Bar with the drunks, then we never got saved to begin with.
Mayor,
As usual, your Biblical intellect is beyond anything I want to spar with. When I read Matthew, I think that, were Jesus here now, he would make it a habit to hang our at Charlie's. Back when I was active LE, I use to tell people that you cannot recruit informants in church; you have to go where informant's hang out at.
I might be wrong, but I have yet to walk away from any of my friends, to include those that do not believe and those that I have sinned with in the past. What I have done; however, is express my re-found belief to light the way for others to follow. They will do so in their time, but I at least want to show them the road that leads us all back home and into the loving arms of our Father.
rtm3039
My dear friend......there is not such thing in Christianity as "Sparing". We all learn from each other and when we can not grow from others then we will be useless. I than you for the comment!
I actually agree with you brother. You certainly have to go where the lost are if you want to get them saved. Jesus told His Apostles...….
"GO YE into the world and spread the gospel".
But there is a difference between "going and spreading" the gospel and sharing Christ and "Hanging out" with the lost all the time.
But when I got save for real, I no longer had the desire to drink and get drunk. I no longer had the desire to hang out with those who did so. Yes, I shared the gospel and explained why I was not coming to the bar anymore. Those men then had the opportunity to make the choice I made but not a one of them did so.
I no longer had the need or desire to sit in a bar and watch other drink beer. So I made new friends who were now like me...…...
Separated Christians.
Now you can use that example in any way to see what I mean. If you have several friends who curse and use God's name in vain and you tell them about Christ and how their language offends HIM and they do not stop, then I promise you that you will not be comfortable around them and sooner or later you will SEPERATE yourself from them.
2 Corth. 6:14...………...
"come out from from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord" .
2 Tim. 2:19...…...
"the Lord knoweth them that are his, And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity"..
I would say to you and everyone reading this that we all need to be careful and conscious of who we share our lives with.
Then in Alabama it is a common phrase that says, "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck and............…......…….."!
.
At one point, I told my son that if he wished to be successful in something he should develop friendships with those that are successful. This is true not just regarding work, but in all aspects of life. You tend to become more like those with whom you associate. At first, my son thought I was being snobbish, but I believe he has come to see the truth in that.
If you want to develop strong faith, hang with the faithful. You will find them in churches. Develop a relationship with them and let them strengthen your relationship to God. Once this is underway (it is never 'finished') if you look around, there will be many ways to share the faith you developed with others.
I find that just in living life, I come into contact and conversations with others and have opportunities to talk about Christ to those that may need Him. This includes light friendship with non Christians.
If one does make his commitment to the Lord known even by having the words of our Lord gently on our lips, others will be quietly taking note (of judging) both the quality of our faith, and by extension how the Lord acts in our life.
Well in my experience esp with alcoholics and addicts you dont go with them to bars or the places to enable their behaviour. You might have a lot of 'friends' in these places but it may turn out they dont want to hang out with you anymore once you tell them about Jesus.
When jesus was eating with the publicans and sinners it wasnt in their territory he invited them to where he was. Cos they followed him to Levis house. jesus wasnt going to the bar or pub! These people were going to follow Him at his friends house! See Mark 2:14-16
When jesus was eating with the publicans and sinners it wasnt in their territory he invited them to where he was. Cos they followed him to Levis house. jesus wasnt going to the bar or pub! These people were going to follow Him at his friends house! See Mark 2:14-16
I agree with you brother.!!!
Winners run with winners and ducks run with ducks.
Some people are called to be soul winners and they communicate easy with others and feal comfortable talking with others about Jesus.
Others have a quiet testimony where there Godly actions show forth to others just as effectively.
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Major,
Truth be told, my days of hanging out at bars and getting drunk ended in my late 20s. I prefer to stay at home. Up until I lost my job, my life was mostly about going to work, going to school (just finished an MBA in December) and spending time at home (yes, I know what was missing). In all honestly, I have maybe two close friends and I seldom see them. One, Bob, lives in VA, so our interaction is mostly phone calls. The second, Henry, spends the majority of his time working his regular job (police officer) and a permanent off-duty job he does on his days off. He really has no choice, as his wife wants both their kids to attend private schools and that's costing him close to $30k per child. It's not that I am anti-social, it's just that I spend most of my life in the military and no one I served with lives close by. On a positive note, my wife is a social butterfly, so there is seldom a shortage of people at the house and I do enjoy their company.
For the moment, my journey is being taken mostly by myself. In fact, the majority of by religious discussions are with you guys. On a positive note, I will be joining one of the church's small group bible study programs and I am sure that will bring with it a host of new friends and many opportunities to grow spiritually. Also, I was recently accepted to serve on the church's security team (200 members strong) and that two will bring opportunities for fellowship and new friends.
As for family, well there are dynamics. My wife is very supportive of my new direction. She believes in God and Christianity, but is not yet ready for a full-time commitment. We have five adult children, none of which live with us and none of which are fully committed to faith either. To the best of my knowledge, once one is agnostic (or maybe even atheist), which is something he picked up as an adult. Now, since life is a drama with no shortage of irony, in a week, he and his family (wife and two kids) and moving back home with us. He wants a career change and will be going back to school. We are actually looking forward to having grand-kids running around an otherwise quiet house and we know they need help taking care of them. My wife is besides herself, as this is almost an answer to a prayer (she is very much into family).
As for me, well . . . I guess I am just tired. I am comfortable with my spiritual growth and am at peace with the Lord. In this aspect, I feel new again. Unfortunately, no matter how hard I try, my fear of the unknown comes and goes. This past Saturday and Sunday were the two best sleep days I have had since this whole situation started. However, I find that I am more tired today than I have been in a while. It was a good day; woke up among the living, went to church, friends stopped by the house for a while, and we are preparing to receive family. I have thanked God for the blessings he has provided and it's a beautiful sunny day. You would think that all of that would serve to pep me up, but apparently not today.
I know that seasons come and seasons go. No matter how long it takes, this is one of those tribulations that will pass and that God has my back. For some reason, that is not working for me today, but maybe tomorrow.
Thanks for the guidance and may our blessings continue,
rtm3039
I do hope you realize that the hanging out in bars was an example that I personally went through.
The sin that afflicts us could be anything.
Alcohol is not inherently evil, and the biblical prohibitions are not against drinking but against drunkenness. But someone who tends toward alcoholism very often knows he must not drink at all and believes others shouldn’t drink, either, even in moderation. If a Christian has a friend who is convinced drinking is wrong, then drinking around that person may cause him/her to “stumble” or trip up. The Greek word for “stumble” gives the sense of stubbing one’s toe. As Christians, we are forbidden to do anything that may cause our brothers and sisters in Christ to stub their toe, spiritually speaking. Stubbing the toe can cause a person to fall in the spiritual sense, or to damage or weaken his faith.
May the Lord bless you my brother.
You are welcome to PM me anytime you fell the need to talk with anyone.
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Thanks Major, nice to know people care. II will be OK, just a phase.
I have always believed that alcoholism is predisposed. I grew up with two guys who were my closest friends. One I already told you about (Henry the cop). The second was Javier, also a cop (retired) but with some serious demons. When we were young adults, we drank; however, I did not see any indications that Javier had a problem.
I finally saw the problem, after he and I both retired and I moved back to South Florida. After Javier retired, he did not do much. He really did not need to, as he was financially stable. He basically stayed at home, drank, and waited for his wife to come home from work and make dinner. There came a point, where his wife (Sonia) had enough and they divorced. By then, he was not just a drunk, he became a mean and ugly person. Unfortunately, because of his attitude, this resulted in us ending a life-long friendship.
About five years ago, he was drunk and home alone. He fell and broke his hip. When he was taken to the hospital, he started to have serious alcohol withdrawals and ended up in ICU. At the time, he was into Scotch. He went home a month later and stopped drinking. Unfortunately, sobriety did not last long and he found a new friend in wine. We were still not talking, but I kept up with him through Henry and Sonia. On January 1, 2017, I received a call from Henry that Javier had died. Apparently, on the night of Jan 1st, he left the house to buy some more wine. When he got back home, as he was walking back into his house, he fell, hit his head on a rock, and his neighbor found his body the following morning. This was a sad ending to a life that had promise. He was only 58 years old. Based on some credit card receipts that were fund at the house, he was drinking an average of 6 bottles of wine a night.
I sometimes feel guilty for not having done more, but he was just not in a place where he cared about himself, or others. He listened to no one and his demons were just too much for him to bare.
rtm3039
Hi Lanolin, I know that we are expected to spread the word "And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." Mark 16:15 (NIV)). For the moment, I am being careful of how I go about doing this. I know that, up until I decided to accept God into my life, no one that tried to "talk me into it" was successful. I believe that faith is a gift that must be accepted willingly.
Also, while I admit to having a very short list of friends, I do not believe any of them would have an issue with my re-found faith. Well, none have shown an issue with it yet.
Even my sister, who lives in CA and is really into Santeria, has a problem with by Christianity. As she put it, "we all have to believe in something."
rtm3039
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