I totally agree with you here, Ingbert. I work for a care home attached to a church that has an openly homosexual pastor. Now not everyone agrees with this lifestyle but we can chose to accept it and let God be the judge.
Why is homosexual sin so bad?
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I totally agree with you here, Ingbert. I work for a care home attached to a church that has an openly homosexual pastor. Now not everyone agrees with this lifestyle but we can chose to accept it and let God be the judge.
Sorry, I didn't accuse you of making assumptions about me. That was a reference to another comment as an example of what I've been dealing with here.
I'm not saying you or anybody else has to know more about homosexuality. I am saying that if people want to make pronouncements about homosexuality, they do need to know. If for no other reason than to be sure they're not repeating falsehoods.
The particular line of theological interpretation was refering to this site only. People have been as rude to me, here and in other threads, as they're accusing me of being rude to them. Yet I seem to be the only one being called out for it.
Please keep my siggy in mind when replying.
Sorry, I didn't accuse you of making assumptions about me. That was a reference to another comment as an example of what I've been dealing with here.
I'm not saying you or anybody else has to know more about homosexuality. I am saying that if people want to make pronouncements about homosexuality, they do need to know. If for no other reason than to be sure they're not repeating falsehoods.
The particular line of theological interpretation was refering to this site only. People have been as rude to me, here and in other threads, as they're accusing me of being rude to them. Yet I seem to be the only one being called out for it.
Please keep my siggy in mind when replying.
Yeah I know what you mean about being accused of being rude. Its pretty easy to misread or misunderstand what someone meant when typing because you can hear a tone of voice.
That's pretty much the way I feel about it.
I'll bet he's a pretty good pastor, too. Not because he's gay (well, not directly). In my experience, most LGBT Christians spend a lot of time in prayer dealing with their faith and their feelings. In my case it took quite a few years, including several years of ex-gay therapy. I don't think anybody can go through that without coming out of it closer to God and with a stronger empathy for others whatever they may be struggling with.
Actually, I read your "signature line" and had it in mind.Sorry, I didn't accuse you of making assumptions about me. That was a reference to another comment as an example of what I've been dealing with here.
I'm not saying you or anybody else has to know more about homosexuality. I am saying that if people want to make pronouncements about homosexuality, they do need to know. If for no other reason than to be sure they're not repeating falsehoods. This seems to be a dual statement. Actually, I was making a "pronouncement about homosexuality" and all I need to know about the subject is in God's Word.
The particular line of theological interpretation was refering to this site only. People have been as rude to me, here and in other threads, as they're accusing me of being rude to them. Yet I seem to be the only one being called out for it.
Please keep my siggy in mind when replying.
I believe I have actually quoted you when I referenced what you have said. Now I did not think you had made an accusation to me about anything I had said. But you had been rude in your comments to others and made a comment about folks on this forum being "ignorant and making assumptions." I simply was "calling you out" on your general rudeness. Didn't you learn that in kindergarten you don't break in line, you don't push, and you aren't rude. Simple Kindergarten 101. I am simply asking that you consider some Kindergarten 101 (and GrannyG) rules:1. Play nicely on the playground
2. Remember that Granny G is "watching"
3. Remember, too, that God is watching - always.
4. Remember, too, that His Word is truth and every word of His Word is viable and from His mouth.
Now a little aside: some of this particular post is intended to be light-hearted and humorous. Some very serious. I challenge you to make a good determination on which is which.
I always play nicely. I'm one the sweetest guys in the world.... and I have the glucose levels to prove it.Actually, I read your "signature line" and had it in mind.
1. Play nicely on the playground
2. Remember that Granny G is "watching"
3. Remember, too, that God is watching - always.
4. Remember, too, that His Word is truth and every word of His Word is viable and from His mouth.
Now a little aside: some of this particular post is intended to be light-hearted and humorous. Some very serious. I challenge you to make a good determination on which is which.
On the other hand, playing nice works both ways.
My understanding is that any sin is sin and we should all make effort to remove them. As long as I live in this world, my flesh wants to sin. The problem is when we agree to feed the flesh instead of feeding our spirit with the Word of God. We are all struggling. I see homosexuality also as a very bad sin mainly because the devil's using this to trap Christian into his way of life. I will never agree to a lifestyle of homosexuality (or in my case, lust - I have had problems in this area but I have been able to keep myself at check knowing the consequences of harboring worldly thoughts in my head). My suggestion is to kill the root of the problem. Mentally remove these thoughts from your head and eat/think the Word of God as soon as your flesh desires these things. Otherwise to me, its like telling me its okay to be a Christian and a liar or thief or adulterer. There are enough verses to prove homosexuality is sin.
I'm just wondering why we can say to others what they are doing is wrong, but if we say it to homosexuals, we are judgmental, hateful bigots?
Eze 3:18-19 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [a] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
Eze 3:20-21 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous [man], that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins
Eze 3:20-21 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous [man], that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins
But revlynn did not compare them to criminals. revlynn was merely pointing out that ALL sin is unacceptable to the LORD, be it criminal sin or legalised sin (by the world that is). Whether it was the best way of expressing it or not I am not sure but I cannot see any intention to insult.
Ingbert said:
Again I did not associate them with bestiality. Homosexuality and bestiality are two different things. I merely pointed out that the Lord finds them equally abhorrent. The legitimate question I raised by my comment is, having abandoned the law of the Lord that condemns BOTH practices by what measure do those who practice homosexual declare their practice OK and the other practice not OK? By what measure do THEY condemn the practice of bestiality? Either they consider themselves equal or homosexuals themselves must exercise the very discrimination they accuse Christians of?
Not an insult, a legitimate and thought provoking question.
I do not know. Do YOU consider it an insult to be mistaken for a homosexual?? If so what is YOUR issue with homosexuality that you would consider it a such an insult to be mistaken for one? If you are indeed NOT a homosexual he may owe you an apology for making a wrong assumption based on the things you have said. But whether or not it is an insult depends on how distasteful homosexuality is to you.
I rest my case.
In fairness, I think it is a big leap from knowing a person is homosexual to making assumptions about a particular person's lifestyle. I also think fear of being "pigeon holed" and having the worst possible stereotypes attached is understandable.
I have been registered with drink problems for the last 10 years, so each night I go out to the pub, get plastered and come home to beat up the wife and kids, right? In my life I picked up the (now cleared) label schizophrenic so (actually schizophrenia is not split personality but who cares...) I don't know which one of me is the real me right?
Drifting a little with this one but it is still the way people can assume... I once spent 30 hrs in a police cell accused of rape (actually some girl invented a tale of being attacked by a stranger and wound upwith a jail sentence for her actions) and there is "no smoke without fire", right?
That's a good point. I think one of the biggest problems in trying to have any kind of dialog are the assumptions.
Unfortunately, some people hold their assumptions so dear it's not even possible to explain it to them. After a while I quit trying and write them off as hopeless.
As for the "gay lifestyle", I don't even know what that is. LGBT lifestyles are as varied as heterosexual lifestyles and really no different. Whatever one thinks the gay lifestyle is, there are plenty of heterosexuals who live the same kind of lifestyle. I'd rightfully be called a bigot if I tried to class all heterosexuals under that lifestyle. If I use the B word to describe people who do the same to me, I'd likely get the boot from this forum.
Point 1. Man does not have the authority to change the Laws of our God. Not even churches and denominations have such authority. We cannot abandon the law of God because the world of man wants us to. The law has legalised many things that the Lord has declared a sin. The difference here is that previously the law has not demanded that the followers of Christ MUST treat unrepentent sinners as equal to repentent sinners. Under the Law of God they are not equal. We are merely seeking to obey the law of OUR God. The problem is not about them being equal in the world OUTSIDE of the family and church of Christ Jesus, it is the OUTSIDE world seeking to demand that wilful and unrepentent sinners be treated as equals in the "privacy" of the family of a god who will not allow wilful and unrepentent sinners to enter or remain in HIS family.
How can that which is sin in the eyes of the Lord be treated as equal to that which is NOT sin IN THE EYES OF THE LORD ... WITHIN the Chiurch of the Lord? In their push for equality, have homosexuals EXHEMPTED those who follow Christ, or indeed ANY religion in which homosexuality is strictly forbidden ?
Part 2. But we ARE, it is just that the world is not paying attention. Even the major worldwide Anglican/Episcopal denomination has almost split over the question of homosexuality *IN* the church with those who follow the teachings of Christ prepared to depart from the church than depart from the word of the LORD.
I'd say you've answered your own question.
Adultery, pornography, and prostituion are all about what people do.
Homosexuality is one aspect of who a person is.
Thanks for demonstrating my point for me.
Well, then heterosexuality is also one aspect of who a person is, and if that is true, then all sexuality must be part of who a person is and if that is true beastiality is one aspect of who a person is and pedophilia is one aspect of who a person is and.......
BTW, If homosexuality is never forbidden in the Bible except as it pertains to idol worship, then the same is true of beastiality and even more so concerning pedophilia as I don't think that is even forbidden when discussing idol worship.
So, your argument seems to be it's not really sin if it is not clearly mention in Scriptures???? Then I would ask again what someone else asked you earlier: Why do you discriminate against other based on their sexuality?
Okay. We're done.
As I mentioned in my post wrong assumptions are also something that should be apologised for and we must always be very careful about making assumptions. But whether or not those assumptions are TAKEN as an insult (regarded as degrading) depends on the attitude of a person to what they are being accused of being or doing. Whether or not they are INTENDED as an insult depends on the attitude of the accuser/assumer to them.
For example a person may intend to insult me for believing what the Bible says, but I would not take that as an insult but as a compliment.
But I do agree with you that rather than just jumping a mile to the wrong conclusions we should walk to them - in the other persons shoes to make sure we get to the right one.
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