why would you say people gravitate in majority toward faith ?

chili

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I think faith is necessary to enter into a religion.
I have no faith in religion. I have faith in Jesus. People gravitate toward faith because they are missing something in the heart. They are searching what can fill this empty space. God is knocking on their heart, all they need to do is open the heart and let Jesus in and that void will be filled.:cool:
 
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Great observation. To be clear on my end I feel I must point out that my words did not intend to advocate faith in religion itself. I think to enter into a particular religion one has to first have faith and a connection, a resonance with truth, in order to agree to the tenets of a religion.

There is indeed a difference between religious and spirituality.
 

Grant Melville

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u think faith is religion?
'Religion' is often treated by us as a sort of a taboo word, and I suppose it does have certain negative connotations these days. It is a scriptural word though: "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, to keep oneself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27). Religion has got itself a very bad name in the world, but there's such thing as pure and undefiled religion. It's not just an outward affectation, nor is it esoteric and mystical. It's both practical and holy. Faith isn't religion, but I think that religion - in the right sense of the word - is the practical working out of faith, what would flow from it.
 
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'Religion' is often treated by us as a sort of a taboo word, and I suppose it does have certain negative connotations these days. It is a scriptural word though: "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, to keep oneself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27). Religion has got itself a very bad name in the world, but there's such thing as pure and undefiled religion. It's not just an outward affectation, nor is it esoteric and mystical. It's both practical and holy. Faith isn't religion, but I think that religion - in the right sense of the word - is the practical working out of faith, what would flow from it.
i don't understand your smart words yet, but i'm in prayer about them, thanks
 
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Can you explain more about what you mean by His Spirit.
Thanks!
God Bless
Ruach is breath/spirit in the Hebrew. When God "breathed" into man the breath (ruach) of life, it was His spirit/breath inserting life into Adam's DNA. When anyone dies, that breath/spirit is return to God Who gave it, Ecc 12:7. This is why abortion is so evil because it's rejecting the life/breath/spirit He gave to make a living person. This is also why He loves us so much, because His breath/spirit/life is in us.
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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I have no faith in religion. I have faith in Jesus. People gravitate toward faith because they are missing something in the heart. They are searching what can fill this empty space. God is knocking on their heart, all they need to do is open the heart and let Jesus in and that void will be filled.:cool:
I beleive we are All Born with an empty place in our hearts that only God can fill and people go from one thing to another trying to fill that empty place that only God Can !!
God Bless
Jim
 
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Cturtle

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Ruach is breath/spirit in the Hebrew. When God "breathed" into man the breath (ruach) of life, it was His spirit/breath inserting life into Adam's DNA. When anyone dies, that breath/spirit is return to God Who gave it, Ecc 12:7. This is why abortion is so evil because it's rejecting the life/breath/spirit He gave to make a living person. This is also why He loves us so much, because His breath/spirit/life is in us.
So what happens when we are born again? We get a new spirit, but how does that fit with what you are saying?

Just trying to get any new believer clarification and a grounded feel for what you are saying :)

God bless
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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Ruach is breath/spirit in the Hebrew. When God "breathed" into man the breath (ruach) of life, it was His spirit/breath inserting life into Adam's DNA. When anyone dies, that breath/spirit is return to God Who gave it, Ecc 12:7. This is why abortion is so evil because it's rejecting the life/breath/spirit He gave to make a living person. This is also why He loves us so much, because His breath/spirit/life is in us.
Hello Brother Abdicate sir,
Ya know it is funny this one line you wrote...((His spirit/breath inserting life into Adam's DNA.)) Woa wait a minute - it is not what you wrote that is funny but this..............
People can accept this that God breathed His spirit into Adams DNA...........but just about ran me out of town on a rail when I said we have Gods DNA in us.............. Now that is funny in a sad kind of way..........

Our spiritual DNA is the same as Gods DNA for it is Him that is in us..........
I will still stand strong on this belief.
God Bless
Jim
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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'Religion' is often treated by us as a sort of a taboo word, and I suppose it does have certain negative connotations these days. It is a scriptural word though: "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, to keep oneself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27). Religion has got itself a very bad name in the world, but there's such thing as pure and undefiled religion. It's not just an outward affectation, nor is it esoteric and mystical. It's both practical and holy. Faith isn't religion, but I think that religion - in the right sense of the word - is the practical working out of faith, what would flow from it.
The sad part about religion is as follows ..............It limits the very word of God. Religion and traditions that the church has passed down through the generations has always limited Gods word and power.

Now Grant I do understand what you are saying here - but religion has changed in the last 2000 years.. ;) It is no longer a Holy upright in line with Gods every word ordeal.
God Bless
Jim
 
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So what happens when we are born again? We get a new spirit, but how does that fit with what you are saying?

Just trying to get any new believer clarification and a grounded feel for what you are saying :)

God bless
The spirit is quickened (restored to life intended). See when Adam sinned and ate the forbidden fruit the spirit was put under the constraints of the flesh. See, when God made Adam he was spirit/soul/body... after he sinned he (we) became body/soul/spirit. The positions were 180 out of sync. Before, the body was subject to the spirit, now the spirit is subject to the body. When we get saved the spirit is again free to rule, quickened. We are given the ability to obey. How's that?
 
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Hello Brother Abdicate sir,
Ya know it is funny this one line you wrote...((His spirit/breath inserting life into Adam's DNA.)) Woa wait a minute - it is not what you wrote that is funny but this..............
People can accept this that God breathed His spirit into Adams DNA...........but just about ran me out of town on a rail when I said we have Gods DNA in us.............. Now that is funny in a sad kind of way..........

Our spiritual DNA is the same as Gods DNA for it is Him that is in us..........
I will still stand strong on this belief.
God Bless
Jim
Speak what you believe, answer questions you're asked, but only care what God thinks...
 

Cturtle

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The spirit is quickened (restored to life intended). See when Adam sinned and ate the forbidden fruit the spirit was put under the constraints of the flesh. See, when God made Adam he was spirit/soul/body... after he sinned he (we) became body/soul/spirit. The positions were 180 out of sync. Before, the body was subject to the spirit, now the spirit is subject to the body. When we get saved the spirit is again free to rule, quickened. We are given the ability to obey. How's that?
Awesome :)

In your thoughts does that mean that Adam's spirit died due to being separated from God, because Adam gave the devil the right to rule over it instead of God?
Thus the reason for the rebirth?
 
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While man is spirit, soul, and body, he is 2/3 spirit nature, and 1 part physical nature. Man was designed by God to operate in both the physical, and spiritual realms all at the same time. Since man was made this way, he desires and tries and get back to his original design parameters. Man's heart is dark, and dead so his attempts to returning to his original design fails. So he tries what ever he thinks that will fill that void in his spirit, with occult practices, or sensual desires hoping to patch the hole in his life. The scriptures paint a picture of man's attempt to fix his problem.

Eph 4:17.. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18.. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph 4:19.. Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

The words, "being past feeling" is a word that describes "to feel pain. To grow or become insensible, void of or past feeling."
The Greek word for this is, "apalgéō; contracted apalégō, " It is where we get the English word, "analgesic" which means a drug that takes away pain.
Spiritually dead men who are in great pain because of being incomplete have given themselves over to "lasciviousness" to work all uncleanness...
They are using"lasciviousness" like a drug in trying to kill the pain they are feeling. "lasciviousness" means " debauchery, sexual excess, absence of restraint, insatiable desire for pleasure. " Of course the only thing that can complete man back to his original design is Jesus Christ.
 

Grant Melville

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The sad part about religion is as follows ..............It limits the very word of God. Religion and traditions that the church has passed down through the generations has always limited Gods word and power.

Now Grant I do understand what you are saying here - but religion has changed in the last 2000 years.. ;) It is no longer a Holy upright in line with Gods every word ordeal.
God Bless
Jim
Absolutely... sadly, that's very true.

I remember I conversation I had with a Roman Catholic some years ago, and it was while we were discussing the issue of traditional teachings that I noticed something about the gospels and epistles. The Bible talks about the "traditions" of the Pharisees. It speaks about the "teachings" and "instructions" of the Lord and the apostles. Never is there mentioned anything about a "tradition" of the apostles or the Lord. I believe that's a deliberate and clear distinction that the Spirit of God would make, between the traditional ideas of men and divine teaching and instruction. One is dead, the other is living. One leads to religion as we know it in the world, the other to pure and undefiled religion.
 

geralduk

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I believe that every person born has a God only place within them. And is the reason for searching for a higher being. Someone to rule over them and bless and love them. Its something natural within us, to desire our creator. In my opinion its in our dna.
"In my flesh there is no good thing..."
We were like all men once "children of dosobedience"
They who are now children of God were no different from any other man born of Adam.
"Born in sin and shapen in iniquity"
It si as a lump of clay is no different from another lump of clay in a field of clay .
It is the potter who makes the difference.
ALL men by creation were created FOR the light .
For a mans eyes respond to light automatically and if a man is held in a place with no light he suffers phyisicaly .
But since the fall man is more a children of darkness that a child of light . For all he knows is darkness .
But what sayeth the scriptures?
"They that sat in darkness have seen a great light"
The condemnation then is not so much that men have sinned (for all have sinned) "but that men love darkness more than the light"
ALL men have faith . "For God has given to every man a measure of faith to profite with all "
It is just that men have put thier faith in what they can see and know by the natural man.
Accordign to what faith "IS" as dedfined in Hebrews All men have then faith.
But not all men have faith in God.
Faith in God comes when men not only hear the Word of God but also understand the Word of God.
Faith accordign to what faith "IS" in anything else works exactly in the same way. By a promise or word of another or thing that is 'heard and understood.
Eve believed the wrogn message .
So too the children of Israel on the borders of the promised land .
The 10 false spies saws the same things as the two faithful spies . But saw them in the light of thier own reasoning and perceptions (even as Eve)
The two faithful spies saw the same things in the true light of what God had already done who it was who was with them and what he had promnised for the future and in THAT light walked by faith and understood they could become more than conquerers.
The scripturss says "No one seeks after God.."
Which I used to find strange because I thought I used to before I was saved.
But I was as a man groping in the dark for I knew not what or who.
The 'god' I was apparently seeking was not GOD at all . But a 'god' of my own thinking and imagination .
It is that God had mercy on me that he opened the eyes of my understanding to see the truth not only of the truth about myself who I did know but also after about God who I did not know .
For unless a man comes to understand the truth about himself in some measure who he does know he cannot come to a knowledge of God who he does not know .
For "the heart of man is desperately wicked and deceitful above all else and who can know it"?
Man does not even know the condition of his own heart in ANY measure he is in so much darkness .
and it takes the Word of God and the Spirit of God (the water and the word) to enlighten him.
If theh he can recognise the truth about himself who he does know .He will then come to recognise the truth about himself who he does not.
If he cannot he will not.
If then he confesses the truth about himself who he does know he will then confess or speak the truth about God who he does not know .
If he does not he will not.
Man is bigger on the inside than he he is on the outside . For that is how God created him and then are all men.
But if men try to fill or satisfy himself with alcohol promisceous living or any other substitute they and it will destroy him.
"For man shall not live by bread alone (even legitimate needs) but by every Word that proceedeth from the mouth of God "
That great truth though first recorded in Exodus . is actually wrapped up and hidden in that other great truth "Let us make man in our own image"
For "man shall not live by every tree that was good to eat in the garden of Eden (which included the tree of life) But by every word that proceeded from the mouth of God as to what was good to eat and what was evil to eat .
Thus by the Word of God and the knowldge of God as to what was good and what was evil they lived.
It was the rejection of the Word of God that they died.
For they believed not the Word of God but believed the word of the serpent .
The consequences of doing so from then even till now and onwards we know .

We do not then by 'nature' desire God at all . For by our nature we are at "............emnity with God"
But we desire above all else to please ourselves.
It takes a great b work of God to change a leopords spots or make the crooked straight .
and to" translate us not only form the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Gods dear Son"
But also to translate us from one predestination to another .
For without that great workign of God . We were as all men are ; predestined to corruption and death and hell.
For every seed is predestined to "brign forth fruit after its own kind"
Man was CREATED in the image of God . But we are BORN of the image of Adam.(shapen in iniquity)
and are therefore BORN of a corrupted or corruoptable seed .
If then we are born of a "corruptable seed" then as every seed brings forth fruit after its own kind. Then a corruptable or corrupted seed is predestined to bring forth fruit after its won kind. Corruption unto death.
But the same law that applies to a corruptable seed applies also to an "Incorruptable seed" which is the Word of God.
If then a corrupted seed is predestined to bring forth corrupotion unto death.
an incorruptable seed is predestined to brign forth righteosuness unto life.
Thus the imperative "ye MUST be BORN again"
It is not an option.
Nor a suggestion ,
Nor so much a freedom of choice.
For without the Gsopel of God there is no choice .
Jesus said "You did not choose me I chose you"
and God did not give Adam and Eve the choice or the liberty to do good or evil.
He DID give them the liberty to choose any good thing to eat they could find which included the tree of life.
"Of ALL the trees of the garden you may freely eat " That is freedom of choice to do good.
But he gave them no l.iberty to do evil.
"But of the tree of the knowldge of good and evil thou shalt not eat for in the day ye eat thereof ye shall surely die"
Some one says God gave them free will.?
In truth whos will did they do in the end?

Gods will was that they should NOT die and do good.

When a person is truly "BORNagain of that incorruptable seed which is the Word of God"
He does but enter that eternal will of God which was preordained from before the foundations of the Word and predetermined by God in Himself.
before anything was created .
and when a man is truly so born . He does "by practice learn good from evil"
For by the Spirit of truth that now dwells with in us (if we are His) "we do know the spirit of error"
In that case whos will do we do?
and who do we seek to and please?

in Christ
gerald
 

geralduk

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Great observation. To be clear on my end I feel I must point out that my words did not intend to advocate faith in religion itself. I think to enter into a particular religion one has to first have faith and a connection, a resonance with truth, in order to agree to the tenets of a religion.

There is indeed a difference between religious and spirituality.
ALL false religions and by that I count what the world calls 'world faiths'
are designed to get men to put thier faith in ANYTHJNG but God or Jesus Christ.
In Islam it is Mohamed .
In the Roman church it is in Mary and infallible popes .
In Hinduism is is in all the 'gods' they count as gods.
In Bhudism it is in Bhuda
In animalism and spiritism i tis in the witchdoctor or shamen .
ALL that is false religion has its root in Caines religion and is of the seed of the serpent .

For they do all say in one form or anothert . "Dont do this and dont do this and go through this ritual according to its kind.
They are religions of works that by the works of thier own hands and by thier observances of religion they hope tyo please God and be accepted .

in Christ
gerald
 

geralduk

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The sad part about religion is as follows ..............It limits the very word of God. Religion and traditions that the church has passed down through the generations has always limited Gods word and power.

Now Grant I do understand what you are saying here - but religion has changed in the last 2000 years.. ;) It is no longer a Holy upright in line with Gods every word ordeal.
God Bless
Jim
It is not the word 'religion' that is at fault so much but what is in mens imaginations when they say it and express by the word religion.
For two men can speak of religion and be talking about two very different things . Even as Islam can talk about @God@ and be talking about another when they speak to a Christian or to the world .
Even two christians do not nescersarily agree even though they may be talkign the same langiuage.
When the Lord said if two of you touching any thing agree it shall be granted unto them.
Taken at face value a great promise .
and IS .
But while two may agree with words they do not agree in mind or soemtimes heart.
It is not as easy as people think it is .
"That they may be one even as we are one "said Jesus . Speaking of the father and Himself.
The unity of believers is to be of the same character as the unity of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
For we are to be of the same MIND as well as Spirit as we are in the same body.
"Let this mind be in you as was in Christ "
be of the same mind "
"Till we all come to a unity of the fath ....."
As faith in God comes by heariung and understanding the Word of God .
Then to have a unity of the faith n there needs must be also a unity of understanding . To be of the same mind. See the same things and from the same perspective .
THEN we can agree for we are by that in agreement with the Holy Spirit and with God.
"For where the bretheren dwell togther in unity there the Lord commands a blessing"

in Christ
gerald
 
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Cturtle

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Absolutely... sadly, that's very true.

I remember I conversation I had with a Roman Catholic some years ago, and it was while we were discussing the issue of traditional teachings that I noticed something about the gospels and epistles. The Bible talks about the "traditions" of the Pharisees. It speaks about the "teachings" and "instructions" of the Lord and the apostles. Never is there mentioned anything about a "tradition" of the apostles or the Lord. I believe that's a deliberate and clear distinction that the Spirit of God would make, between the traditional ideas of men and divine teaching and instruction. One is dead, the other is living. One leads to religion as we know it in the world, the other to pure and undefiled religion.
Reminds me of
Isa 55:8 — Isa 55:9

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

God Bless
 
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Never is there mentioned anything about a "tradition" of the apostles or the Lord.
2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2Th 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

The Apostle Paul told Timothy that the only "traditions" that are good is what he wrote to Timothy in his epistles, or what he spoke directly to him while being in his presence.
 

Grant Melville

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2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2Th 2:15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

The Apostle Paul told Timothy that the only "traditions" that are good is what he wrote to Timothy in his epistles, or what he spoke directly to him while being in his presence.
Ah, I'm thinking of J.N.D.'s translation - he has "instruction" in both those scriptures. In the footnotes, Mr Darby says it is the same as "directions" in 1 Corinthians 11:2. It's a small point, and not one that I'd want to be dogmatic about by any means, but I feel that this may be an example of the commendable sensitivity of Mr Darby's translation.