Will Our Faith Survive The Coming End Times?

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Well, I hope all you rapture believers have a 'Plan B' - coz your're gonna need it.

I have nothing against Americans - it is just that the Rapture fantasy is a peculiarly American Evangelical doctrine - in Australia very few churches teach or promote this. We pretty well expect to hold onto our faith and suffer it through to the Last Day, as the Scriptures teach us to.
Good luck to you all - send us a postcard.

Luck is not a part of the Christian faith my brother. It is God's direction based on His plan through the ages. We are just along for the ride.
 

LanceA

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Well, I hope all you rapture believers have a 'Plan B' - coz your're gonna need it.

I have nothing against Americans - it is just that the Rapture fantasy is a peculiarly American Evangelical doctrine - in Australia very few churches teach or promote this. We pretty well expect to hold onto our faith and suffer it through to the Last Day, as the Scriptures teach us to.
Good luck to you all - send us a postcard.
So let's say we aren't raptured, who cares? It isn't like the post trib people are doing anything different to prepare. Do you think your faith is greater than people who believe in a pre trib? You act like we are just going to curl up and give in.
 
um we will still be on earth though. In a safe place for sure but still on earth...and still have to endure and go through it.
I don't get why americans have this left behind theory in which Jesus comes and nobody sees him, and christians mysteriously vanish like smoke. It's so plain in scripture that every eye will see..and also that many are going to be martyred for their faith. Esp those that refuse the mark of the beast. We all need to be prepared for this and to die for our faith because death is NOT the end for those that believe.

My dear, you really do need to do some in depth study.

You continue to pull Scripture out of the air and place it wherever you chose. That my sister is incorrect exegesis of the Scriptures.

You allude to Rev. 1:7 where we see...........
"Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen."

That event my sister is AT ARMAGEDDON!

The wailing there is because the people left, especially the Jews (Those who pierced Him) now SEE HIM coming in power and great glory at the end of Armageddon conflict. They now see their Messiah as the ONE they rejected and killed!!!

I am not trying to be hurtful in any way and I can see that you are excited to be a Christian however......I have to tell you in a loving way that your theology is really messed up. I encourage you to read some of the better Christian teachers so that you can get a better grip on Bible truth.

Goggle is your friend. Look up some teachers such as J. Vernon McGee, Charles Stanley, Charles Feinburg, Edward Hinson, Charles Pentecost.
 
Well, I hope all you rapture believers have a 'Plan B' - coz your're gonna need it.

I have nothing against Americans - it is just that the Rapture fantasy is a peculiarly American Evangelical doctrine - in Australia very few churches teach or promote this. We pretty well expect to hold onto our faith and suffer it through to the Last Day, as the Scriptures teach us to.
Good luck to you all - send us a postcard.

Waggles........I have been to Israel, Panama, Hattie, Africa (Uganda) and even spoke at a Christian Seminary for pastors in South Vietnam. We financially support this teaching facility.
What you are saying is simply not true. Every where I have been and spoke and talked with pastors and teachers, the Rapture is very much a taught and believed coming event!
 
So let's say we aren't raptured, who cares? It isn't like the post trib people are doing anything different to prepare. Do you think your faith is greater than people who believe in a pre trib? You act like we are just going to curl up and give in.

Well said!
 
When I was in the Air Force I was stationed in upstate New York. We were the home of a B-52 bomber wing and we were told in orientation that we were one of the bases targeted by the USSR and if the alarm were to go off, to get to shelter. I said something like "I'm going to run to the center of the flight line and catch it, 'cause no one in a 12-mile radius was going to survive." While evil happens to His, He's gonna take His out of the way when the tribulation beings. Watch for the Two Witnesses. If you see them at the temple mount, I'm wrong and the trib has started. The covenant with the AC and the arrival of the Two Witness is the beginning. When the Two Witness are killed 1260 days later, then 1260 days from then Jesus returns. It's all spelled out clear as black and white.

You are so very correct!

In Fort Benning Ga. at one of my 1st training events, the sargent made a big deal of telling us how to survive a nuclear blast.
Being young and eager we all were paying attention as he told us how deep to dig a hole, and cover it with a tarpaulin.
Then he said those lines we all know and have grown to love................
"Stand by that hole, bend at the waist and put your head between your knees and kiss you butt goodby".
 
Thanks. He just makes it seem like post trib people are doing some sort of post trib workout that is taught only to them. Makes no sense to me

He/she is just confused and has the Scriptures all jumbled up. There is a "survivalist" kind of mentality involved here me thinks.

I Have seen this over and over again with those who reject the Rapture where they seem to want to be punished instead of accepting the grace of God and believing that He said what He meant to say to us.

Instead of a super duper kind of faith, I am afraid it is the opposite.
 
Look up some teachers such as J. Vernon McGee, Charles Stanley, Charles Feinburg, Edward Hinson, Charles Pentecost.
Funny, Jesus taught me that the Holy Spirit would be my teacher and teach me the truth. and that I need not to be taught by my brother anymore.
Unless all these "teachers" agree on one gospel and one salvation message fully in accord with the Scriptures - such as Acts 2: 37-39 and Mark 16: 15-20 - then they are no more than just a collection of opinions on the matter.
Let's be honest most christians cannot even agree on something as fundamental a commandment as water baptism, even though it was universal in the early church. And this is the tragedy of our times the "believers" rather than relying directly on the Two Witnesses to truth - The Word and the Holy Spirit - drum up to themselves teachers who will satisfy their preconceived doctrines on salvation, the gospel and everything.
2Timothy 4: 2-4
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 
This post is not about supa dupa faith, or betta faith, or I'm more holy than you, or other such put downs.
I write it out of love and compassion for my fellow brothers and sisters who are being deceived into a false security that will not come as is being sold to them.
Pascal the philosopher put forward the wager as to the value and benefit of believing in God as opposed to not believing in God.
And so it is with the theory of the Rapture. It is a similar wager, or weighing up the benefits of believing in or not believing in.
You believe in the pre-tribulation Rapture of what you call THE church. What if your wrong? What will you do?
On the other hand I believe NOT in the pre-tribulation Rapture. If I am wrong what will I lose?
If I am right then I am prepared and expecting to fully trust in, and rely upon, the Lord for my safety during these times.
And I will witness and preach to those seeking an answer to my hope and joy.
 
Well, I hope all you rapture believers have a 'Plan B' - coz your're gonna need it.

I have nothing against Americans - it is just that the Rapture fantasy is a peculiarly American Evangelical doctrine - in Australia very few churches teach or promote this. We pretty well expect to hold onto our faith and suffer it through to the Last Day, as the Scriptures teach us to.
Good luck to you all - send us a postcard.

You might have a problem with a plan "B" if you do not believe in the pre-tribulation rapture. Right after the Church is raptured and the man of sin is revealed there will be great signs and lying wonders performed by this man so as to "deceive" those who are left, and God will send them a "strong delusion" so they will believe the lie.

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
 
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All of that has already happened. This refers to the Rome and her Popes. And lying wonders and signs refers to the deceiving "miracles" that Satan can and does perform - such as Statues of the Madonna that bleed real human blood, and the sun dancing at Fatima, and the passion wounds, or miracles attributed to dead saints. Rome is Babylon the great, and it is the Popes that sit on their throne exalting themselves above the authority of God. Remember the Pope is infallible and their issuing of doctrine supersedes the authority of the Scriptures.
"and that they should believe a lie" would apply to millions of christians who do not believe the Word of God, but instead choose loyalty to their denomination.
Most often when I open up my Bible and start showing Scriptures to other christians they run away. They get offended. They have no love for the truth of the Word.
And most of your postings on the Rapture on who is going up, up and away is full of waffle and vague references to the church and believers.
The Scriptures are a lot more specific on what is the gospel, and who are true worshippers who worship the Father in truth and Spirit.
In the end Jesus said emphatically "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"
Rapture doctrine is like the theory of evolution - people believe in it first, and look for the evidence to support the theory.
If I am right it will be terrible for rapture believers.
If I am wrong, then I am none the worse off.
 
All of that has already happened. This refers to the Rome and her Popes. And lying wonders and signs refers to the deceiving "miracles" that Satan can and does perform - such as Statues of the Madonna that bleed real human blood, and the sun dancing at Fatima, and the passion wounds, or miracles attributed to dead saints. Rome is Babylon the great, and it is the Popes that sit on their throne exalting themselves above the authority of God. Remember the Pope is infallible and their issuing of doctrine supersedes the authority of the Scriptures.
"and that they should believe a lie" would apply to millions of christians who do not believe the Word of God, but instead choose loyalty to their denomination.
Most often when I open up my Bible and start showing Scriptures to other christians they run away. They get offended. They have no love for the truth of the Word.
And most of your postings on the Rapture on who is going up, up and away is full of waffle and vague references to the church and believers.
The Scriptures are a lot more specific on what is the gospel, and who are true worshippers who worship the Father in truth and Spirit.
In the end Jesus said emphatically "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"
Rapture doctrine is like the theory of evolution - people believe in it first, and look for the evidence to support the theory.
If I am right it will be terrible for rapture believers.
If I am wrong, then I am none the worse off.
Brother, you can not fight against the Word of God, no matter how much you might not agree with it. Jesus speaking to his true Church said this...

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
 
I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,
Yes, but this is not referring to a "rapture" - it is the power of the Holy Spirit within the true believer that shall deliver them from what you quote:
Psalm 91: 2-10
I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
 
Hello Mr. Turtle. It is a blessing for you to ask me a question.

I for one have been and will be praying for the souls of the lost people all over this world my brother.

My understanding of Scripture is that when the last person that God has predestined to be saved, hears and answers His call to be saved, the church will be complete. It is at that moment that the Rapture will take place. That will effectively end the Age of Grace.

Then, no one who has heard the gospel can be saved. The lost will stay lost and be judged for their sins.

So WHO should we praying about. THE LOST.
Then WHY should we be praying. That they would come to Christ before it is too late to be saved.

Thank you major for clarifying. Do you believe that all people are predestined to be saved or just a certain amount? Blessings to you and yours!
 
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If any seed does not produce it's fruit, then they never were a child of God. The very first fruit produced in any one life as a Christian is the New Birth!!!
There was only one person in the parable of the "sower" that produced any fruit.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Never forget, that the fruit that is produced does no come from the person, but from the "seed" which is the Word of God. No one can stop the Word from producing once it produces it's first fruit. A good tree can NEVER produce bad fruit!!

I agree with everything except that if one does not produce fruit, they were never a child of God. God is the only one that truly knows peoples hearts. And i believe that anyone who asks, and receives by faith Jesus as their Lord and savior, they are truly saved. But the problem can be in the fact that the new believer is not developed enough in the Word to know if they are going to a good Bible believing church or not, and just like i have herd happen, people who are well meaning Christians, but not moving in the flow of the Holy Spirit, can quench a new believers fire, thus causing all kinds of things to happen. Giving lots of room for the enemy (as in the parable in mark 4) to come in and steal the Word.

It happened to me as well. I was saved, but because of how i was raised, (not on purpose, but carnally minded) and the mistakes or doors to God that i closed, caused me to be blinded to the reality of truly walking with God, according to His ways. I knew what the Word said, but because of my lack of understanding, and the fact that i didn't know how to not allow the devil to steal the Word, i backslid. As God moved me away from my old ways of thinking, and people who influenced those wrong ways, is where i learned to fully embrace God's ways of doing things and being right. I didn't even know and was never taught about the battle that goes on in the mind, and how to walk in victory.
Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts! Blessings my friend to you and yours!
 
I agree with everything except that if one does not produce fruit, they were never a child of God. God is the only one that truly knows peoples hearts. And i believe that anyone who asks, and receives by faith Jesus as their Lord and savior, they are truly saved. But the problem can be in the fact that the new believer is not developed enough in the Word to know if they are going to a good Bible believing church or not, and just like i have herd happen, people who are well meaning Christians, but not moving in the flow of the Holy Spirit, can quench a new believers fire, thus causing all kinds of things to happen. Giving lots of room for the enemy (as in the parable in mark 4) to come in and steal the Word.

It happened to me as well. I was saved, but because of how i was raised, (not on purpose, but carnally minded) and the mistakes or doors to God that i closed, caused me to be blinded to the reality of truly walking with God, according to His ways. I knew what the Word said, but because of my lack of understanding, and the fact that i didn't know how to not allow the devil to steal the Word, i backslid. As God moved me away from my old ways of thinking, and people who influenced those wrong ways, is where i learned to fully embrace God's ways of doing things and being right. I didn't even know and was never taught about the battle that goes on in the mind, and how to walk in victory.
Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts! Blessings my friend to you and yours!
Cturtle, What you said right here is what caused the fruit to be brought forth right at that moment. Confession is made unto salvation.
What you experienced in your life after being saved was the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing you to the place were he was now beginning his work of "sanctification".

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

You do not have to worry as once you give your life to him, he will complete his work in you. The Lord will discipline you when you go astray weather you want it or not, just like any good father would do to his own children. :)
 
Not really. I cannot listen to the radio or loud as my mother-in-law is generally watching television and we live in a small apartment where the TV is in the living room which is the center room in the house and my listening to the radio would disturb her. I cannot use eat phones as I need to be able to hear my wife call out and generally with earphones I cannot hear beyond those.
So only use one ear piece and that way you can haveone ear free to hear her voice and do notturn it up real loud. There is always a way if you want it bad enough.....
 
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