I once was baffled as to free will being my choice to choose to be saved, but have come to the biblical conviction God choose me I didn't choose Him and have been at peace since then. The important thing is you know Jesus as savior and this truth will be settled in heaven.
Will there be more saved than lost?
- Thread starter calvin
- Start date
I once was baffled as to free will being my choice to choose to be saved, but have come to the biblical conviction God choose me I didn't choose Him and have been at peace since then. The important thing is you know Jesus as savior and this truth will be settled in heaven.
My opinion as noted was based not on fact but assumption like everybody else's were. Sorry if I was misleading you.
MinisterTony
Inactive
I believe God chooses everyone to be His eternal child, he desires that nobody should perish God's Word says. But people freely choose to reject God, something which astounds me why we do. I did it myself for decades before I came to Christ by faith.
MinisterTony
Inactive
I was asking because I was sincerely interested and hoped you had some sources to the large number of abortions. I am sure it's very high number and I am not sure how God deals with that as they never grew up to use their free will to accept or reject God.
MinisterTony
Inactive
My God and my Bible tells me that salvation is a free gift by grace, not something I have to work out, or work towards.
I had a dinner break. I didn't notice one thing in your previous post that struck my heart as off base. The second blessing is also known as, I'm fairly certain, baptism of the Holy Spirit. There are a lot a times where some just think, by faith, if you ask God for the baptism of the Holy Spirit (or 2nd blessing), you have it. But that isn't necessarily so. Has God flooded your Spirit in acknowledgement of it? Do you KNOW you have it, for sure? Also, I understand that none of God's gifts come to us by our "work". Before I returned to the arms of my Lord and Savior, Jesus, I was a New Ager. I believed that by my own power of the mind, I could achieve just about anything and obtain just about anything. The mind is powerful, but it needs to be trained to submit to the Lord, not make its own path to worldly "heavens".
In that regard, we must "work" toward untraining what the world has trained us is the truth. God comes as we "release" all to Him and give our all to Him. But releasing all to Him causes beads of sweat to form on my brow...does it yours? Giving all to Him is scary and I don't believe I trust Him enough to jump off the limb I'm on so that He can catch me (figurativly, of course). Do we trust Him enough to go where He tells us to go? Love whom He wants us to love? Say what He wants us to say? Do what He wants us to do? Call on Him when things are rough or smooth?
No, it is not easy giving it all up for Him...but no worthier sweat could we sweat than the work it takes to be fully involved in Jesus. We can't get that, by the way, by merely listening to someone else who is anointed in the Word. We've somehow GOT to get into God more than life will allow us to.
Minister Tony, it is so through the Bible, so thoroughly saturated with it, that it is missed by most everyone. Sorry to be so cryptic. Do you have E-sword? It is an excellent Bible-study tool that is offered over the Internet for free. If you can get it, you will be able to see these old "holiness" books I've been speaking of. Many of them point right to the numerous Scriptures with excellent Scriptural arguments on its existence. But even if it weren't the truth, we should want God more than we have Him. I don't think many of us "Love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul and mind" (sorry, not an exact quote but close). Exactly what does that entail? All of the Mosaic laws of the Old Testament point to two laws Jesus said replace them. Love our neighbor as ourself and Love God with everything in us. That's it. But, Oh, what an "it" that is.
I believe our churches ought to be training grounds for EVERYONE to do this. If we all focus, spend our days dreaming of widening the Narrow Gate for others, making it as easy as possible for them to enter in by loving Jesus in the only way He told us to love Him...by following His commands, our days will be well spent and, though we will work up quite a sweat, we will rest easy at night, knowing we've done everything in our power for the Lord by helping funnel people's train of thought through the Narrow Gate.
In that regard, we must "work" toward untraining what the world has trained us is the truth. God comes as we "release" all to Him and give our all to Him. But releasing all to Him causes beads of sweat to form on my brow...does it yours? Giving all to Him is scary and I don't believe I trust Him enough to jump off the limb I'm on so that He can catch me (figurativly, of course). Do we trust Him enough to go where He tells us to go? Love whom He wants us to love? Say what He wants us to say? Do what He wants us to do? Call on Him when things are rough or smooth?
Yes it does big time. I love Jesus but I could all ways love HIM more. That's where I still hang on to myself, as you said RC (figuratively speaking). I am the limb. that's human nature. I'm still not perfect and never will be. That is where God is made perfect ( in our weakness) we turn to HIM for help. And HE loves to help. I know.......another story i have.
No, it is not easy giving it all up for Him...but no worthier sweat could we sweat than the work it takes to be fully involved in Jesus. We can't get that, by the way, by merely listening to someone else who is anointed in the Word. We've somehow GOT to get into God more than life will allow us to.
As long as we keep getting up when we fall that sweat is worthy to God because we strive to be with Jesus. like riding a bike. You learn you fall Papa picks us up brushes us off and says "Try again" over n over again. HE does not quit on us. No way no how. TY Jesus!! Wohooooooo!
Chili out. Good post RC
Yes it does big time. I love Jesus but I could all ways love HIM more. That's where I still hang on to myself, as you said RC (figuratively speaking). I am the limb. that's human nature. I'm still not perfect and never will be. That is where God is made perfect ( in our weakness) we turn to HIM for help. And HE loves to help. I know.......another story i have.
No, it is not easy giving it all up for Him...but no worthier sweat could we sweat than the work it takes to be fully involved in Jesus. We can't get that, by the way, by merely listening to someone else who is anointed in the Word. We've somehow GOT to get into God more than life will allow us to.
As long as we keep getting up when we fall that sweat is worthy to God because we strive to be with Jesus. like riding a bike. You learn you fall Papa picks us up brushes us off and says "Try again" over n over again. HE does not quit on us. No way no how. TY Jesus!! Wohooooooo!
Chili out. Good post RC
MinisterTony
Inactive
Yes, I am aware of baptisms of the Holy Spirit. And I realise there is a difference between born again of the Holy Spirit and being baptised with the Holy Spirit.
You are "born again" with the Holy Spirit when you reach out and accept the gift of heaven and invite Jesus into your heart. Being "baptised" with the Holy Spirit can happen repeatedly after being "born again" of the Holy Spirit.
The "baptism" of the Holy Spirit is to empower you to tell others about Jesus and the joy and hope found in Him. The "baptism" of the Holy Spirit will also fill your heart with more love for God and others.
Being "born again" of the Holy Spirit saves you, then when you're "baptised" with the Holy Spirit over and over again, this is to help you and give you power and desire to reach out and save others.
The disciples in John 20 were BORN AGAIN with the Spirit, then 50 days later they were BAPTISED with the Holy Spirit. So, the disciples received the Holy Spirit in John 20 and were "born again", then 50 days later, they sat around and received a BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit, and this was AFTER they were born again with the Spirit 50 days earlier in John 20.
The Day of Pentecost is the day that the disciples were baptised with the Holy Spirit, and this happened 50 days AFTER they were born again and received the Spirit initially in John 20:22.
So they received the Spirit twice, once in John 20:22 and were "born again", then 50 days later at The Day of Pentecost and then they were "baptised" with the Holy Spirit.
MinisterTony
Inactive
I have learned through personal experience, that whenever I try to do something, it fails. So I have learned, not to "work" at something, but to SURRENDER to Jesus, so Jesus can work through me and not have any interferences from me. John 15:1-5 stands out for me, in that it teaches me that without Jesus I can do NOTHING, and it's actually Jesus that needs to produce good works and fruit through me, but that can only happen when I SURRENDER to Jesus and admit to Jesus that I cannot do it my way, but it has to happen God's way.
Yes Minister Tony, I agree. "Surrender" is the key word here.
My bad.......... In the first line that you quoted it was a quote from RadicalChristian. I did not quote his response right. But what ever. Surrender is THE KEY. Most of us surrender most of ourselves, but hold on to a little piece. We reluctantly refuse to let go. That is the hard part because we DON"T know what is going to happen. In our hearts WE know it will be good cuz it's from God. But our MIND is struggling. That's where the devil hold his wars against Christ. He lies 100% of the time but it is so tricked out we believe it sometimes and embrace it. But then Jesus steps in and shows us the truth and we get better from there. Then the devil comes in and sweet talks us again then we start all over again. It is a sever Spiritual Battle between good and evil. In the end Jesus is the winner but HE is all ways the winner all the time. Thank YOU Jesus
Chili out.
My bad.......... In the first line that you quoted it was a quote from RadicalChristian. I did not quote his response right. But what ever. Surrender is THE KEY. Most of us surrender most of ourselves, but hold on to a little piece. We reluctantly refuse to let go. That is the hard part because we DON"T know what is going to happen. In our hearts WE know it will be good cuz it's from God. But our MIND is struggling. That's where the devil hold his wars against Christ. He lies 100% of the time but it is so tricked out we believe it sometimes and embrace it. But then Jesus steps in and shows us the truth and we get better from there. Then the devil comes in and sweet talks us again then we start all over again. It is a sever Spiritual Battle between good and evil. In the end Jesus is the winner but HE is all ways the winner all the time. Thank YOU Jesus
Chili out.
MinisterTony
Inactive
Yes I agree. We are in this constant battle, between Spirit and flesh, Galatians 5:17. And the stubborn flesh and sinful nature wants to follow the old song which goes, "I did it my way".
But all my life I wanted to do things my way and look where I ended up! Mentally ill, isolated, and not in the place I wanted to be!
So I am beginning to truly understand that the KEY IS SURRENDER and let Jesus have his way with me. His ways are better than my ways. Amen, praise Jesus.
MinisterTony
Inactive
MT me n you r in the same boat. So lets' sail together buddy
Chili out
Let's go brother, let's go, count me in
It is fact that many who believe in Jesus will be forever lost.
Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Jesus used the examples of Noah and Lot. Luke 17:26 (NKJV)
26 "And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: " Only 8 were saved from the Genesis Flood. Only Lot and his were saved from Sodom. "Few" indeed.
I'm taking this on, MinisterTony. I have access to much "holiness" literature of the late 19th and early 20th century and I want to peruse them for specific Scripture advocating that we are first "regenerated" (justified) then "made holy" (sanctified). First comes the decision to go with Christ which forgives us our sins (but the power of the Holy Spirit may not be there yet) then comes the implementation (or embedding) of God's Spirit which purifies and gives amazing power to the believer. The disciples were first justified as they participated in Jesus' teachings and lived with him for many years, THEN at Pentecost, God's Spirit descended upon them and they were imbued with amazing power.
Peter, who previously was quite wishy-washy (manifested as fear to reveal that he even knew Jesus during his trial) became a tower of strength, speaking up for Him even in the most frightening of situations. He had been saved (as he spent his life with the Lord) then sanctified almost instantly when the Spirit descended on them at Pentecost.
We go through a similar transformation when we first know the Lord is our Savior THEN allow Him to save us and direct us and empower us in Him at sanctification. That is the principle. I am going to set up a new topic on "Scriptural proofs of the principle of regeneration AND sanctification" at Bible Studies. Thanks.
I realize that but have no number's to address it. It was a hypothetical ? so I gave it a hypothetical answer.
God's salvation either depends on our free will or God's divine will, you choose which one, I choose divine will not free will even though our will is necessary to be saved, it is not capable of saving us.
I think the important thing is that you know Jesus as your savior and are 100% sure of that fact.
All mankind are born in sin and therefore choose to sin the unpardonable sin of rejection of Jesus Christ.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
MinisterTony
Inactive
I disagree with your comments. No believer will be lost, because believers are given eternal life based on free grace, and you cannot be given eternal life only to have it be turned into temporary life, because that would contradict Bible.
Notice the key words are, "I NEVER knew you". These people never believed in Jesus in the first place as their Lord and Saviour. They never placed sincere belief in Jesus and were never born again, that's why Jesus says, "I NEVER know you", because if a person genuinely comes to Christ by faith they are KNOWN by Jesus so Jesus could never say, "I NEVER knew you".
These people in Matthew 7:21-23 are all the fake and impostor "believers" who never came to Christ in the first place and only sought to profit from Jesus and didn't do anything for Jesus, but only for themselves and their own profit. I even know a person who tells me that they believe in God, but they have never come to Christ for salvation and invited Jesus into their hearts. It's these types of people that will say to Jesus, "But Lord Lord, didn't I live a good life, I never hurt anyone, I did all these things for you". And others will say, "Lord Lord, I was casting out demons for you". But they were scammers and never born again in the first place.
ONCE a person sincerely comes to Christ by belief and trust, Jesus can NEVER say to that person, "I NEVER knew you".