Willful sin....

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy?
If we go on to read in Romans 8, verses 3-4 teach that the law cannot
save... only show the weakness of our flesh, and condemn us before God.

Romans 8:3-4
3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the
flesh, God sending His own Son
in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for
sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


I acknowledge the law only for it's true intention~ to show the desperate
need we all have for God's way of salvation... Jesus. Keeping of the law
cannot save. The quickening Spirit of God, living through us by faith,
does. (For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons
of God. Ro. 8:14)
 
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What the "Law" could not do because of the weakness of our flesh, God did for us through his Son Jesus Christ so that the righteous requirements of the law would be fulfilled within us. After Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the Law, God the Father took that exact same Spirit that was in his Son Jesus Christ, and he now placed it within man so that man would benefit from all it's blessings it gave. It is like man himself fulfilled the law, but he did not. Jesus did it for us.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
 
What the "Law" could not do because of the weakness of our flesh, God did for us through his Son Jesus Christ so that the righteous requirements of the law would be fulfilled within us.
Yes... the law is/was not the problem, the weakness of sinful flesh was/is.
The law did a perfect job showing our weakness... Jesus did a perfect
job redeeming us.
 

Bro.tan

Inactive
Let’s get some understanding before people take one verse of Paul's writing and run with it. God had Peter to clearly warn people about some of Paul’s writing. (2 Peter: 3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now you need to take heed to this warning, you can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on one or two verse out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood. Paul talks about more then one law from time to time.

Lets go into Romans 8 and take a closer look at Paul's conversation. Now Romans 8: 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Walking in the spirit consist of keeping God laws, statutes, judgements, walking in the flesh consist of following your own mind and not the mind of Christ.

8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: “When Jesus died on the cross he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This signified the end of the law of animal sacrifice, not Gods Royal law. Paul explained this in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually can make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments.

Now, Notice the next verse 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Paul is now talking about the righteousness of the law now...see this a different law then verse 2 & 3. Let’s see how Paul describes the righteousness of the law in Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. The other commandment is the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (Saturday).

Let’s return and finish up in Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
 
God had Peter to clearly warn people about some of Paul’s writing. (2 Peter: 3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now you need to take heed to this warning
? ? ? . . . 'God had Peter warn...about Paul's writing'?
(I need to understand more clearly what you are saying here before any
response...)
 

Bro.tan

Inactive
? ? ? . . . 'God had Peter warn...about Paul's writing'?
(I need to understand more clearly what you are saying here before any
response...)


If a person is not fully learned in the word of God (Genesis to Revelation) its easy to mis understand the writing of Paul. Paul talks about more then one law at times or use different wording methods of teaching; one must know and understand what Paul is talking about when he speaks. For Example...Read Romans 14 and tell me what you think Paul is talking about.
 
If a person is not fully learned in the word of God (Genesis to Revelation) its easy to mis understand the writing of Paul. Paul talks about more then one law at times or use different wording methods of teaching; one must know and understand what Paul is talking about when he speaks. For Example...Read Romans 14 and tell me what you think Paul is talking about.
Understood... thank you. The context of 2 Peter 3 is living in hope of Jesus' return. Peter
seems to be saying that some of what Paul is teaching, regarding this 'hope', is hard to
understand. (Context is vital...)
 

By Faith

Inactive
Understood... thank you. The context of 2 Peter 3 is living in hope of Jesus' return. Peter
seems to be saying that some of what Paul is teaching, regarding this 'hope', is hard to
understand. (Context is vital...)

Your wasting your time with Bro-tan. He is reliegiously bound by many things. When someone has a doctrine they believe more than scriptures, then all the scriptures get bent up to fit the doctrine. They even miss things in the Word and can't read them, though you point it out over and over.

My Father inlaw has a bible study group and the folks he is studying with can't read out of their own bible word for word. Then they get astonished when you point something out and they wonder if your KJV translation is different from theirs. It's not, but no matter how many times you ask them to read a passage, then misread it every single time though it's right in front of them.

This is a supernatural thing, that needs God's help to break. I have seen it more than once where someone can't read something simply in front of them. They have no ability.
 

Bro.tan

Inactive
Your wasting your time with Bro-tan. He is reliegiously bound by many things. When someone has a doctrine they believe more than scriptures, then all the scriptures get bent up to fit the doctrine. They even miss things in the Word and can't read them, though you point it out over and over.

My Father inlaw has a bible study group and the folks he is studying with can't read out of their own bible word for word. Then they get astonished when you point something out and they wonder if your KJV translation is different from theirs. It's not, but no matter how many times you ask them to read a passage, then misread it every single time though it's right in front of them.

This is a supernatural thing, that needs God's help to break. I have seen it more than once where someone can't read something simply in front of them. They have no ability.


Thank you so much for being so untruthful. In the scriptures its written Proverbs 4:24 Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.
 
Your wasting your time with Bro-tan...
I'm fairly new here, and don't know everyone. I really wanted to hear what Bro. Tan
was saying, so as not to respond inappropriately. It seemed he was saying God was
warning against Paul... who also wrote by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. God would
not 'pit' one apostle against the other. In regard to 2 Peter 3, knowing the context of
living in the hope of Jesus' return (and that what Paul taught about it can be hard to
understand) safeguards against the notion that it's difficult to understand salvation.
 
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Are you serious? What I've posted is clear. It's faith in Jesus' atoning work
that saves... not faith in the blood of bulls and goats, or in any other work.
I don't mean to pick on you Nanon. It really is just that line that doesn't make any sense to me. Is there a scripture that says ''if we believe in Jesus atoning work that we are saved?'' You said this too '' It's faith in Jesus' work that brings life, not faith in the dead works of human effort and common blood of animals''.

I really don't see how believing Jesus died for us gets us saved. I don't have a problem with most of the rest of what you say. It really is just that line. It really does urk me ;).

Believing someone went to Mars doesn't make me an astronaut.

 

By Faith

Inactive
I'm fairly new here, and don't know everyone. I really wanted to hear what Bro. Tan
was saying, so as not to respond inappropriately. It seemed he was saying God was
warning against Paul... who also wrote by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. God would
not 'pit' one apostle against the other. In regard to 2 Peter 3, knowing the context of
living in the hope of Jesus' return (and that what Paul taught about it can be hard to
understand) safeguards against the notion that it's difficult to understand salvation.

Just trying to help you out............ Bro-tan has said that walking in God's Law, statutes, and judgements is walking in the Spirit (spirit-man) In other words you need works of the flesh, to walk in the spirit.

That was not what Paul was saying.......... He said stay filled with the Spirit (Anointed) and by walking in the Spirit you fulfill the law. One example out of many.
The law of love God teaches and writes on our heart. One that law of love hang all the rest of the law.

1Th 4:9 kjva But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love oneanother.

so walking in the Spirit is not keeping laws or statutes, but actually staying filled with the Holy Spirit, walking in that love God himself shows us and sheds abroad in our heart.

I am not going through the rest of his post. I have found it a waste of time.
 

By Faith

Inactive
Thank you, By Faith.

Well, after thinking about it a bit. I was wrong, the Holy Spirit can more than help you and have you decided who to listen to and not listen to. I should not put myself in a position to judge.

Just make sure you question and pray about all things before accecpting anyone's word on anything when it comes to scriptures.

Bro-tan has lots of Bondage doctrine he likes to give out. He hates christmas for example. Lot's of his understanding of scriptures is through doing works which I pointed out one place.

Sorry about any issues I have caused. Be blessed.
 
I really don't see how believing Jesus died for us gets us saved.
When I talk of Jesus' death saving us... I'm including His complete atoning, regenerating work.
He did for us what we could never do for ourselves, namely offer Himself as the sinless sacrifice
God accepted. The sin nature every human is born with makes it impossible to die for one's own
sin, and satisfy God's holiness. Jesus was born without sin, but became sin (and bore judgment,
death, for it) that we might be the righteousness of God... in HIM. Here's scripture for you:

Ephesians 2:11-18
11) Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called
Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12) That at that time we were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of
Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in
the world:
13) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of
Christ.

14) For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall
of partition between us;
15) Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in
ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16) And that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the
enmity thereby:
17) And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that are nigh.
18) For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.


There are religions that teach Jesus was a good man, good teacher, humanitarian...
but deny his Godhood, his sacrificial death, resurrection and atoning work. There are
many false christs... and it's Jesus' death and resurrection that set Him apart from the
false.
 
Hi,
My understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 is that being a partaker of the Holy Spirit is by definition one who has been born of God and shares/partakes in the power of the Holy Spirit. (this stands true for all christians no matter their earthly/fleshy heritage) It is one who is born again of the Spirit of God (circumcision of flesh - Colossians 2:11). There is neither Jew nor Greek nor male or female in the Holy Ghost. (Gal. 3:28) We know that no one is saved unless they are born again (ye MUST be born again), according to Jesus in His discussion with Nicodemus (and elsewhere in scripture - many supporting scriptures.) Becoming enlightened and partaking of God's Spirit by the process of 'salvation' (which is an operation of God and not flesh or a verbal testimony), THEN ONE IS IN THE FAITH. No one can fall away from THAT faith, if they were not already in the faith. These scriptures speak to all true christians, not just Jews. Christians can fall away and become apostate by choice.

1 Cor 2: 14 .....an unsaved man cannot understand God, nor discern Him, nor taste Him and is not enlightened nor can he be a partaker of God, unless he is born again/saved.

1 Cor. 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, WHICH TEMPLE YE ARE.
 
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By Faith

Inactive
Hi,
My understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 is that being a partaker of the Holy Spirit is by definition one who has been born of God and shares/partakes in the power of the Holy Spirit. (this stands true for all christians no matter their earthly/fleshy heritage) It is one who is born again of the Spirit of God (circumcision of flesh - Colossians 2:11). There is neither Jew nor Greek nor male or female in the Holy Ghost. (Gal. 3:28) We know that no one is saved unless they are born again (ye MUST be born again), according to Jesus in His discussion with Nicodemus (and elsewhere in scripture - many supporting scriptures.) Becoming enlightened and partaking of God's Spirit by the process of 'salvation' (which is an operation of God and not flesh or a verbal testimony), THEN ONE IS IN THE FAITH. No one can fall away from THAT faith, if they were not already in the faith. These scriptures speak to all true christians, not just Jews. Christians can fall away and become apostate by choice.

1 Cor 2: 14 .....an unsaved man cannot understand God, nor discern Him, nor taste Him and is not enlightened nor can he be a partaker of God, unless he is born again/saved.

1 Cor. 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, WHICH TEMPLE YE ARE.

Pretty much what it is........ We have choices.
 
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