Your quote:
"My argument (which no one has adressed at all) is a biblical argument that argues by the logic of the scriptures themsleves .
In the beginning God created the HEAVEN and the EARTH.
and it was ONLY the earth that was in darkness .
Not heaven."
In this exercise, we will assume Gen 1:1 is sky/space and the earth.
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.==God, Heaven and the angels exist already (Job 38:7) and here we see God creates outer space and the earth. No light has been created, so both the heaven and the earth are dark. This could also be viewed as a subject line of sorts for what is listed in the rest of the chapter. In the same way as I could say, “Tonight, I am making steak and potatoes and salad.” And then I go on to say how I create each item. One would not say that I created the steak and go on to say nothing about how later on. But I do go into detail about the potatoes and salad. No, you would expect description of the creation of the steak as well.
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.==Earth was covered in water and was empty with no land formation or any specific shape in general.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.==God creates a mass of light, maybe a ball of energy. Previous to this, outer space was dark, thus the heaven or heavens was/were dark.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.==Light is good and it is separate from darkness.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.==God names light and darkness, end of first day. As far as we know, there is a blob of light in outer space.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.==God puts a separation in the waters of the formless earth.
1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.==Now there is water above and below the separation.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.==God names the separation Heaven. This can only mean the sky or atmosphere, because the waters were divided above and below.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.==So, under the sky or atmosphere, gravity is created, since gravity holds water where it is under the sky, and land appears. The Earth now has form.
1:10-13 We will skip for lack of pertinence.
1:14-18 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.==Now God takes the light and creates the sun, stars and moon in the firmament of heaven, outer space. It could be said that this firmament of heaven is the same firmament of verse 7. This would mean that there is water spread throughout the universe because the firmament separated the water above from below.
So this can easily be understood that God’s Heaven is not spoken of in Genesis 1, and is the creation of everything we see.
If Gen 1:1 heaven is God’s Heaven then we don’t see outer space until verse 7 and light existed before this and therefore existed outside of the physical known universe. This makes no sense to me. It makes more sense that outer space was the “canvas” for which the creation of light was placed along with the earth.
Since God lights His Heaven, then why would He need to create light? He would be putting the cart in front of the horse, in that, outer space was not there yet to put light into. One would surmise that God would create outer space first then create light.
Your quote:
My argument ;which no one has addressed at all as to WHY it should be HEAVEN and not heavens is in my view odd . For it is both reasonable it does not violate biblical and sound doctrine nor contradict any other scripture .
I think no one addresses this is because it can be either. Others are saying it can be “heavens” and that they think this is the better version of the word. (Of course it seems to always need to be said that by “they think” we are saying that they have been convinced and convicted of this by the Holy Spirit. Too many times I see a critical response of , “that’s the problem, you think, you’re using your own understanding”.)
Im afraid I have said all I can or could say on the subject .Simply starting from a premise I have already argued against and suggest we start there runs counter to the scripture how can two walk together unless they agree.
The reason why it should be heaven in English is because the meaning is clear .That it is the ehaven of Gods throne that was created and the earth . or the earthly and the spiritual.
To suggest that God did not create it is absurd given John 1.
Concerning light .
There is spiritual light even as there is spiritual darkness .
God always gives light before he starts a work.
and again I say it was only the EARTH that was in darkness .
Not that heaven.
For the very heavens you wish to stick with of earth only is created AFTER gen 1:2.
What you accuse me of you is the very thing that the translators used in their oft mistaken translations.
People having swallowed it and leaned upon their understanding of Hebrew (flawed) simply refuse to believe what the Hebrew word can be be.
It is not I that either wrote the Bible or translated it.
I have found what I have found and havign come across the "student Bible " rendering of gen 1:1 as SKY and earth .
No one has faced that one yet .
Which by your own reasoning of heavens of chapter 1 would be a reasonable rendition.
But it is absurd and misleading at best .
I am faced with two Bibles purporting to be of the Holy Spirit .
Yet one has HEAVEN and the other HEAVENS .
Two very different concepts and presentation of truth .
I have argued my case as to why it should be heaven,
You and others by Hebrew (wrongly) says it can only be plural. Not true .
But also proved by your own reasoning to be wrong for none of you acknowledge or rather confess that God created ALL things that includes angels and all of heaven .
Indeed you also seem with the others seem to only see the earth being created .
Here I must confess . That until I was faced with that awful 'student bible' I thought much the same as you do.
But that awful 'bible' made me search a bit more ALL the bibles in the book shop and by all I mean all the prevailing modern versions of the Bible.
I have also read a number of books on them by authors who challenge some grave errors in them both in denial and addition to .
A long journey starts with the first step.
The purpose of this post was about WORDS and the nature of them and what they can do .or dont do .How they can build and they can destroy.
Some one took my post personally and said I was challenging their bible notation. As if we should reduce all these things to our personal likes and dislikes.
This is not about that at all.
Its about words "that proceedeth from the mouth of God " that gives life to all that receive them.
I reject utterly and completely the idea that God needs a multitude of versions of the Bible.
I cannot force or compel anybody to conform to me .Nor would I wish to .
But do not expect me to conform to something I know to be false .
You start answering my post by quoting me then say we should start in the very place I have already rejected .(with good reason)
I make no claim to infallibility .
But please , do not answer my objections by simply ignoring them .If Im wrong then show me .But you will not nor can by simply stating what you see is the truth then accusing me of leaning upon my own reasoning when you simply apply your own .
Before absolutlely anything there was ONLY God.
God does not need heaven he does not need the earth .
He did however create them.
if you ask me to fathom why . I know nothing save that He is the creator of all things and hew created all things by the council of his own will and by the Word of God.
I draw your attention to jerimiah which I have already mentioned and no one as far as I can tell has faced that one either .
What it all boils down to is that you and others believe that Hebrews "is always plural"
This is not so .
perhaps then before you can go any further you need to find that truth first .
I have again said more than I wanted to. perhaps should have,
It is enough and until someone adresses or 'asnwers' my post or objection .I intend to say nothing more on the matter.
Though I will say something more about words.
in Christ
gerald