You Are The Healed: Reason 02

My dear brother, you statement is not completely accurate, I hope you don't mind if I insert what you left out.

To be an Apostle of Jesus Christ meant that one had to have a personal visitation from Jesus Christ.


Because the Father had an Apostle whom He sent,

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Heb 3:1

Jesus Christ had 11 + 1apostles that He ordained and sent.

And the Holy Spirit has apostles that He ordains and sends, there are true or real apostles and there are false apostles present with us today, I think we need to define what an apostle is, I'm sure you will agree the New Testament definition of an apostle is simply 'sent one,'...one who was sent, so in searching the Word we find in Acts 14:4, 14 Barnabas (not one of the 11 + 1) was called a apostle by Divine inspiration, and then again in Eph 4:11 we find apostles are given to the church for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Chris, which is evident by just reading the threads in this forum alone the church is not yet perfect, and, ...and, .......are you ready, ............YOU, by your own admission, were an apostle, a sent one, sent to the battlefield to announce the Gospel. BOOM!!! sorry bro, couldn't resist, ...luv ya

Blessings,

Gene

You are indeed a sneak. Thanks for the compliment.

I guess we are really talking about the meaning of the word, not nessacerily its application.

If we follow your thinking......then wouldn't all missionaries be apostles?

My explanation was the identification of the original 12 Apostles. Each one of them had that meeting with Jesus and was alive to see Him crucified. If we do not follow the Biblical explanation we will have apostles popping up every where claiming authority and the same ability those 1st twelve had...........wait, that is exactly what we have going on now.
 
You are indeed a sneak. Thanks for the compliment.

I guess we are really talking about the meaning of the word, not nessacerily its application.

If we follow your thinking......then wouldn't all missionaries be apostles?

My explanation was the identification of the original 12 Apostles. Each one of them had that meeting with Jesus and was alive to see Him crucified. If we do not follow the Biblical explanation we will have apostles popping up every where claiming authority and the same ability those 1st twelve had...........wait, that is exactly what we have going on now.

Here I am Major.. With more questions to trouble you! Well, you never get troubled by any questions :) These are my questions.. Are you rightly said, today we have many many self proclaimed apostles.. And in fact most of them claim face to face encounter with Jesus.. They have healing power.. They can cast away demons.. They prophesise.. They give prophesies at the beginning of year.. They bring extra biblical revelations.. They have to be apostles rite :) But my question is not on this.. My question is, what really sets the "true" apostles apart from other servants sent out? The Apostles (the twelve) had authority from Jesus. What is the authority we are talking about? Is it penning down Scripture? Then how about James? Well, assuming it is written by brother of Jesus.. Is it the authority to perform signs and wonder? How about the seventy two sent out by Jesus?

The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”

Or is it just that they had to be chosen by Jesus personally to be an Apostle? This is the only factor which I clearly see separating apostles from disciples. Twelve were chosen.. Judas was gone.. He was replaced. But Mathias was not the 12th apostle. It was Paul. Mathias was chosen by men and Paul was chosen by Jesus himself. He ordained Paul to preach among the gentiles.. Your thoughts?
 
(Hey Ravindran :)). I think many are called to God's service. It becomes a distraction when people call themselves "Apostles" or "Disciples" nowadays because they are claiming authority that compares to the likes of the original 11 or those who came at the beginning. Is anyone calling themselves that these days? As for "Prophets" - who would know, amidst the din we live in, if there are any about? I think all 3 titles, are just that - a clamor for attention and a demand that folks believe whatever it is that they are saying. Is not being a " child of God" good enough? There seems to be a demand for "miracles" these days and I do not think it is a good ground to base anyone's faith on. Doesn't it say somewhere that false prophets will do wonders?
 
(Hey Ravindran :)). I think many are called to God's service. It becomes a distraction when people call themselves "Apostles" or "Disciples" nowadays because they are claiming authority that compares to the likes of the original 11 or those who came at the beginning. Is anyone calling themselves that these days? As for "Prophets" - who would know, amidst the din we live in, if there are any about? I think all 3 titles, are just that - a clamor for attention and a demand that folks believe whatever it is that they are saying. Is not being a " child of God" good enough? There seems to be a demand for "miracles" these days and I do not think it is a good ground to base anyone's faith on. Doesn't it say somewhere that false prophets will do wonders?
Hello Silk! I completely agree.. But I am still trying to understand what authority did the original twelve has in addition compared to other disciples? The only thing I see is, they were personally chosen by Jesus
 
Here I am Major.. With more questions to trouble you! Well, you never get troubled by any questions :) These are my questions.. Are you rightly said, today we have many many self proclaimed apostles.. And in fact most of them claim face to face encounter with Jesus.. They have healing power.. They can cast away demons.. They prophesise.. They give prophesies at the beginning of year.. They bring extra biblical revelations.. They have to be apostles rite :) But my question is not on this.. My question is, what really sets the "true" apostles apart from other servants sent out? The Apostles (the twelve) had authority from Jesus. What is the authority we are talking about? Is it penning down Scripture? Then how about James? Well, assuming it is written by brother of Jesus.. Is it the authority to perform signs and wonder? How about the seventy two sent out by Jesus?

The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”

Or is it just that they had to be chosen by Jesus personally to be an Apostle? This is the only factor which I clearly see separating apostles from disciples. Twelve were chosen.. Judas was gone.. He was replaced. But Mathias was not the 12th apostle. It was Paul. Mathias was chosen by men and Paul was chosen by Jesus himself. He ordained Paul to preach among the gentiles.. Your thoughts?

Hey Rav!

I am never troubled by anyones questions. That is the reason to be here and if we fail to that, what's the point of doing this?

You have already answered your own question when you said........... "today we have many many self proclaimed apostles".

In order to sound more spiritual and able to be authoritarian, these self proclaimed apostles believe that they can draw more attention and money from those who are not educated Biblically to remove them.

The original 12 apostles had the same "sign gifts" as did the Lord Jesus Christ. They were His represenitives here on the earth to finish the mission which was to spread the gospel to all lands. There authority came from Jesus Himself when He commissioned the Eleven in Matthew 28 and Mark 16.

This is the error from those who believe that they have the gift of tongues, healing, drinking poison and such. Those things were the "SIGN GIFTS". They were given to the ELEVEN not to anyone today. Read the exact words in Mark 16:15-16........"He said unto the "ELEVEN". We definitely have the gifts of the Holy Spirit which are peace, love, joy, compassion etc. but not the "sign gifts". They were given to a certain group for a certain time and purpose and when the last apostle died, the "sign gifts" died as well.

Yes, I know that there will be people who will jump on that and claim that they speak in tongues and drink poison and raise the dead. They will say that especially the tongues thing because it is easy to fake it. It is just that simple Rav.

THEY wrote the New Testament. Jesus appeared to James following his resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:7).

I would have to look the Seventy Two up, but I believe it was Seventy not Seventy Two. I don't know what you are using them for but IMO they tell us that even demons are subject to these disciples. Remember, Jesus saw these men face to face and it was Jesus who commissioned them. That is the Bible requirement for being an apostle and no has seen Jesus today. I do not care who tells you they have seen God or the Lord Jesus they are lieing! It is just that simple. It is impossible for man today to stand in the presence of almighty God and live.

A long time ago, someone whom I respect greatly for his Bible knowledge and wisdom told me.......
"When someone tells you that God just spoke to them and said............." Grab your wallet and RUN from them as quick as you can.

Secondly, when some says to you............"I have seen Jesus. I went to heaven and saw God and He told me to tell you.................."
Grab you wallet, and RUN as fast as you can!!!!

It is very easy for un-scrupulous, n-saved people to use such a claim so as to obtain more money from people, especially the weak, sick and elderly.
 
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Hello Silk! I completely agree.. But I am still trying to understand what authority did the original twelve has in addition compared to other disciples? The only thing I see is, they were personally chosen by Jesus

The disciples Rav, became the Apostles after the death of Jesus. That is the catalyst that prompted Jesus to personally commission them as His spokesman just in the same way the God did it in the Old Test.
 
Well Major, I don't agree about the "no one" has spoken or seen God (but then I never asked for money or authority either :)). If you have felt the presence of the Holy Spirit, have you not felt God? But, in general, I agree with your points about the many claims of people and what motivates what seems like many. I was told 2 things that I use for a guidline on what is preached 1) You will know them by their acts 2) Accept no donations for His Work - He will provide.
 
Well Major, I don't agree about the "no one" has spoken or seen God (but then I never asked for money or authority either :)). If you have felt the presence of the Holy Spirit, have you not felt God? But, in general, I agree with your points about the many claims of people and what motivates what seems like many. I was told 2 things that I use for a guidline on what is preached 1) You will know them by their acts 2) Accept no donations for His Work - He will provide.


Whoaaa there lady. I did not say that no has "FELT" the presence of the Holy Spirit. Absolutely that has been done over and over and over!

I said SEEN God or the Lord Jesus. Big difference between those two.

1 Tim. 6:16
"Who only hath immortality dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen nor can see, to who be honor and power everlasting."
 
I'd be lying if I didn't say I haven't "seen" an aspect of God or had a conversation with Him. One of the clear things I heard was that I was to not accept any monies for anything He asked of me - that too many had used His name in this way. Learning about things of God, I would probably pay more for. Take this forum - it is free. Take the company of Posters - all good stuff, even when we disagree. :) Salvation, too, is free.
 
You got it Major!

Now I'm going to stretch you a little more, ...all missionaries sent by the Holy Spirit, like you and me for instance, can be called, and in the sense of the New Testament, are apostles, ...what is the commission of an apostle, to preach the Gospel and to teach from the Word, baptize the new converts and make disciples out of them, isn't that what the Father's Apostle did, isn't that what the apostles of Jesus did, isn't that what you did and I'm doing?

Now, what are the signs that will follow the apostles ordained and sent by the Holy Spirit, exorcisms (fortunately we haven't had to do that, but there are many missionaries that have too), speak in new tongues (glōssa), you didn't have to, but I do, French, take up serpents, or won't be hurt by venomous insects, bugs or the like, were there scorpions where you were, were you stung by any (however I remember you saying you are certain you have been protected from bullets rearranging your lovably mug), we have centipedes, up to 6" long, I've stepped on them with my bare feet at night and have never been bit, ingest poisonous food, I don't know about you, but refrigeration isn't an important thing here, for instance, mayonnaise is never refrigerated, I'm certain I've eaten food filled with salmonella so as to not hurt the feelings of the person giving it to me, and haven't become sick, I have felt the impression in my heart several times to lay hands on someone to heal them, but I reasoned it out of my head, however my bride was healed by the laying on of the hands from a fish poisoning by a visiting Chinese missionary. Most important I did and I'm certain you did too, tarry in Jerusalem (our home churches) until we were indued (clothed) with power from on high.

My tarrying in Jerusalem went like this, during a time of worship, the pastor told us the Holy Spirit would call us up front and he would whisper in our ear what gift/gifts the Holy Spirit was giving us and then we were to go to the assistant pastor, on the other side of the room for a confirmation, yeah right, I'm the world's biggest skeptic (I think by now you know I'm not a pentecostal and neither is my home church), but, the Holy Spirit did call me up and the pastor whispered in my ear the gifts given to me and the assistant pastor said the same things and I'm certain he hadn't heard what the first said, months pasted, we served our brothers and sisters in the church, then when it was time to leave, the elders layed hands on me for the power from the Holy Spirit to empower the gifts He has given me and to do the work He sent me here to do, ...it's been nothing miraculous (no calling fire down from the sky or raising someone from the dead), nothing to draw attention to myself, just following the command of my Lord who said, "I didn't come to be served, but to serve, ...what you have seen Me do you do also," ...and He has worked in my life in supernatural natural ways, unknown to the world, but like those that filled the pots with water, ...they knew where the wine came from.

I'm positive you went through the same preparation as I did (Jesus didn't send His apostles out without preparing them and neither does the Holy Spirit), but with different experiences, so you see my dear brother, we are apostles of the Holy Spirit, we have been sent out and I'm certain if you reflect back on your time as an apostle, you will see some, not all (because it wasn't necessary) of the signs in the ministry the Lord placed you in and how He supernaturally naturally, unknown to those around you, ...empowered you and worked in your life.


And then, like you said, there are false apostles, they are easily identified, there is always a big circus, lots of advance advertisement and they are always found in the center ring with the spotlights shinning on them!


Oh how good it is for us to live in the abundant, unending, fervent love, mercy, grace and Truth of our Heavenly Father, thank you for my brother major and the other true brethren here, bless them all my Lord, may their cups run over like you have blessed me!

Gene
 
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[QUOTEI'd be lying if I didn't say I haven't "seen" an aspect of God or had a conversation with Him.][/QUOTE]

Of course dear one, we, His children, have all experienced His love, or understood that special thing in our lives was a gift from Him and we, His children, all have conversed with Him, prayer is a two way conversation, but the red flag Major saw is probably the same one I saw, ...I've read on this forum how Jesus has come down from sitting on the right side of His Father on the Throne in Heaven and talked to someone in their front room, or in the bathroom, or at the park, or down by the river, or over at the crossroads (you get the idea) and that Jesus gave them some special revelation for the Church that always goes against what He wrote in His Word, ...NOT!!!

I don't doubt those people saw some supernatural being masquerading as an angel of light, back in the '60s we saw them too and talked with them and them with us, ....when I was on LSD.

Blessings,

Gene
 
Well - it was in my living room. :) And many things were said, too much of it was for proof for me that I wasn't going crazy and how to obtain that proof. It was about 2 hours long and God did most of the talking. I no sooner thought a word of a question and 1/2 the answer was already given. There were instructions for me, mainly - one answer to my many scarcely thought questions was : "Find My people". I googled for Christians and first pop up was here. I guess, when I first got here, I missed the part about learning and I was full of pride - I thought I knew everything. The first time I was here, I didn't learn much of anything. The 2nd time, I did learn. I left for awhile, because I had to move places. (still haven't finished the move from the 9th level of hell!!) and I was tired of the constant fighting. Third time is the charm?
 
You're always charming sis, and Father always meets us where we are at, and look at what you said, it wasn't some new revelation that goes against Scripture.

Father usually speaks to me when I'm driving and can't write down what He's saying because finding a place to pull over here is hard. LOL

I've just read, blew my mind, that the Lord is speaking to Muslims in their dreams, they are looking for their 12th Inman and Jesus is appearing in their dreams telling them He is the only Messiah, and record numbers are turning away from allah to the True and Living God, Praise the Lord!

Gene
 
What He told me wasn't against scripture but He did say we are approaching end times. It is time for truth.
 
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