Order of Events in the Gathering?

Hello crossnote;

Years ago I struggled with the pharisaic and legalistic teachings of the Sabbath. It is so that God commanded us to keep the Sabbath but more important, keep it Holy in Exodus 20:8-11 - KJV

The exegetical points shared in my previous post only confirms my desired obedience of the Sabbath. Between God and my family, I labor 6 days and keep the Sabbath to worship Him, reflect on all He has done, and then get refreshed for the next day.

I'm blessed by this command.
Bob,
That reminds me of Luther's Small Catechism (spent a few years there). Luther had a knack for turning the '10' from that which are 'no-nos' to that which we ought 'lovingly do'....

The Third Commandment​



05 Thou shalt sanctify the holy-day.

06 What does this mean? — Answer.
We should fear and love God that we may not despise preaching and His Word, but hold it sacred, and gladly hear and learn it.

(Of course the Lutherans have a wee bit different numbering of the '10'. lol)
 
Correct amondo! We missed your input and I am glad to see you back. I hope your trip was a good one!

If what you just said was not true.......then why do so many Christians accept the tradition of bunny rabbits, candy and chickens at Easter.

They have no clue and do it because mom and dad did it and I did with my children and mom and dad could not be wrong.

The very same thing applies to Santa!

Those things speak to the flesh of man and we love it!!!!!

Major, I missed all of you too. It's good to be back.

MM

Welcome back, MM. I do feel your business trip to lala land will expand your horizons, create new Biblicist discussions and lead you and your family to move there. You can become neighbors with crossnote. lol!

And maybe, just maybe, if you guys buy me lunch I'll fly down. 😎 👍
 
I don't see how it is a blessing, when breaking one point of the law brings a curse.

James 2:10 (KJV) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Galatians 3:10 (KJV) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

And of course......when we actually read the Bible....isn't it wonderful what we learn????
 
In Exodus 20:8 I was focusing on that they were commanded to keep the 7th day holy.Specifically on the word keep.Which would mean that from creation to Exodus the 7th day was still holy because they were asked to keep it that way.
So my question is,if from creation to the time of Exodus the 7th day was holy.At what point in history did it cease to be holy.Did God remove the blessing from the day?

To your other points..

Are we not spiritual isrealites,did God not take us out of bondage through his son Jesus Christ?Are we not heirs of the promises?


Im not saved by obedience..Im saved by faith and faith alone..obedience is just an expression of my faith.

NO! You can not take the word "HEIR" and use it to fill your idea of obedience.

The literal meaning of heir is “someone who has been appointed to receive an inheritance.”
It is impossible to quote Exodus 20:8 and state that because of that we are to obey the Sabbath Law.

The promises made to the Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the Israelites were made to them and TJ+HEY are the "heirs" not We who born again believers are not "heirs" to those promises.

Believers are co-heirs with Christ. Meaning, believers have been given the privilege of sharing Christ’s inheritance. As adopted sons of God, Christians are treated as firstborn heirs. Our inheritance includes salvation, eternal life, and even a measure of the throne of Christ.

The promises made to Abraham and that group are yet still in the future.
 
In Rom 7 where Paul deals with our death to the Law, he uses as an example, the 10th Commandment, "Thou shalt not covet" Rom 7.7, thus poking a hole in your theory that Col 2:14 only applies to the ceremonial law.
Like I said..depending on contexts Law could mean ten commandments or Moses law.

Now indeed the contexts of Romans 7:7 is referring to the ten commandments.

We also have mention in this chapter of the law of God ,law of sin ,law of marriage.

Romans 7:3- So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

The ten commandments was a marriage covenant between God and Isreal.

Jesus died for our sins.But he also died to to set Isreal free from their marriage ,to the intent that they might remarry into the new covenant.

Colossians2:14 is referring to Moses law which ofcourse includes ceremonial laws and a bunch of other laws.
 
Hello crossnote;

Years ago I struggled with the pharisaic and legalistic teachings of the Sabbath. It is so that God commanded us to keep the Sabbath but more important, keep it Holy in Exodus 20:8-11 - KJV

The exegetical points shared in my previous post only confirms my desired obedience of the Sabbath. Between God and my family, I labor 6 days and keep the Sabbath to worship Him, reflect on all He has done, and then get refreshed for the next day.

I'm blessed by this command.

Now that very may well be the case but do you "keep" the Sabbath???? It is easy for some people to say that they keep the Sabbath when in reality they do not know what that means. I would say that there are very people who are able to "keep" the Sabbath as
As based on the Mishnah Tractate Shabbat 7:2, the 39 activities that are prohibited are:

Sowing
Plowing
Reaping
Binding sheaves
Threshing
Winnowing
Selecting
Grinding
Sifting
Kneading
Baking
Shearing wool
Washing wool
Beating wool
Dyeing wool
Spinning
Weaving
Making two loops
Weaving two threads
Separating two threads
Tying
Untying
Sewing stitches
Tearing
Trapping
Slaughtering
Flaying
Tanning
Scraping hide
Marking hides
Cutting hide to shape
Writing two or more letters
Erasing two or more letters
Building
Demolishing
Extinguishing a fire
Kindling a fire
Putting the finishing touch on an object
Transporting an object between a private domain and the public domain,
or walking for a distance of 4 cubits within the public domain.

Notice.......
Writing two or more letters
Erasing two or more letters
Extinguishing a fire
Kindling a fire............(turning on an oven would be the same thing)
Transporting an object between a private domain and the public domain
walking for a distance of 4 cubits within the public domain.
 
Now that very may well be the case but do you "keep" the Sabbath???? It is easy for some people to say that they keep the Sabbath when in reality they do not know what that means. I would say that there are very people who are able to "keep" the Sabbath as
As based on the Mishnah Tractate Shabbat 7:2, the 39 activities that are prohibited are:


Hello Major;

Oh boy.
Yes, I can say honestly that we uphold "keep" the Sabbath within our capabilities except once for sewing stitches, and tanning.

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NO! You can not take the word "HEIR" and use it to fill your idea of obedience.

The literal meaning of heir is “someone who has been appointed to receive an inheritance.”
It is impossible to quote Exodus 20:8 and state that because of that we are to obey the Sabbath Law.

The promises made to the Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the Israelites were made to them and TJ+HEY are the "heirs" not We who born again believers are not "heirs" to those promises.

Believers are co-heirs with Christ. Meaning, believers have been given the privilege of sharing Christ’s inheritance. As adopted sons of God, Christians are treated as firstborn heirs. Our inheritance includes salvation, eternal life, and even a measure of the throne of Christ.

The promises made to Abraham and that group are yet still in the future.
Wow,you seem hell bent on apposing me😢...we are heirs and co heirs with Christ.

Romans 8:16- The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29- And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
In Exodus 20:8 I was focusing on that they were commanded to keep the 7th day holy.Specifically on the word keep.Which would mean that from creation to Exodus the 7th day was still holy because they were asked to keep it that way.
So my question is,if from creation to the time of Exodus the 7th day was holy.At what point in history did it cease to be holy.Did God remove the blessing from the day?

To your other points..

Are we not spiritual isrealites,did God not take us out of bondage through his son Jesus Christ?Are we not heirs of the promises?


Im not saved by obedience..Im saved by faith and faith alone..obedience is just an expression of my faith.

Your question seems to assume some things that I never said, nor implied. Nowhere did I state or imply that the sabbath where the Lord rested from His creation work ever became unholy, ceased to be holy, or anything else along that line.

What I will ask of you is this: Were the translators wrong, and you are right...or whomever taught you this stuff? Please read the text for what it says:

Genesis 2:2-3

2 And on the seventh day (singular) God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day (singular) from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day (singular), and sanctified it (singular): because that in it (singular) he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Nowhere in that context does it demand nor intimate a continuance of that day's hallowedness being carried on into all other seventh days to come. All days are holy for we who are His. If one chooses to observe that day of rest the Lord chose for Himself, then I have no problem with that.

Then we see the Lord commanding the Israelites to observe the Sabbath and keep it holy, and then later He had Moses write down even more detailed layout so that they would understand that they and their household were to rest from all their labors.

So, please show to me where I have misrepresented what's written, if at all. Your amusement at this stark, glaring singularity in the language is itself somewhat striking. Why would you not accept what's written? If you have reason to believe that it is the Lord's intent that Gentiles be bound to some alleged obedience to sabbath observance, then by all means, enlighten me.

John 5:16-17

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

Someone is bound to point out that Jesus wasn't working in a trade or job, and so His and the Father's labors are not the same thing. Isn't it interesting; the convenient and fine lines of distinction some will draw in order to be right at all costs?

What I would ask of them about this is the authority behind drawing such lines of distinction. Labor is labor, and yet God did no labor at all (so far as we know) on that one sabbath day in the creation week. There's no mention of His having done anything at all akin to the "work of the ministry" or anything else, as some might point out as their distinction authority.

Some have asked me why Jesus would break His own Law by laboring on the sabbath contrary to the Law. As it's written, the Law was UNTIL JOHN, as I have quoted already. He was/is the fulfillment of all the Law as the Law Giver. That's the power of His mission here on earth...to have fulfilled ALL the Law.

So, please explain how I'm wrong. Questions don't explain your position as fully as you may seem to think. Discussion is what I seek so that I can understand why or if I'm wrong.

MM
 
Now that very may well be the case but do you "keep" the Sabbath???? It is easy for some people to say that they keep the Sabbath when in reality they do not know what that means. I would say that there are very people who are able to "keep" the Sabbath as
As based on the Mishnah Tractate Shabbat 7:2, the 39 activities that are prohibited are:


Notice.......
Writing two or more letters
Erasing two or more letters
Extinguishing a fire
Kindling a fire............(turning on an oven would be the same thing)
Transporting an object between a private domain and the public domain
walking for a distance of 4 cubits within the public domai
Your question seems to assume some things that I never said, nor implied. Nowhere did I state or imply that the sabbath where the Lord rested from His creation work ever became unholy, ceased to be holy, or anything else along that line.

What I will ask of you is this: Were the translators wrong, and you are right...or whomever taught you this stuff? Please read the text for what it says:

Genesis 2:2-3

2 And on the seventh day (singular) God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day (singular) from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day (singular), and sanctified it (singular): because that in it (singular) he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Nowhere in that context does it demand nor intimate a continuance of that day's hallowedness being carried on into all other seventh days to come. All days are holy for we who are His. If one chooses to observe that day of rest the Lord chose for Himself, then I have no problem with that.

Then we see the Lord commanding the Israelites to observe the Sabbath and keep it holy, and then later He had Moses write down even more detailed layout so that they would understand that they and their household were to rest from all their labors.

So, please show to me where I have misrepresented what's written, if at all. Your amusement at this stark, glaring singularity in the language is itself somewhat striking. Why would you not accept what's written? If you have reason to believe that it is the Lord's intent that Gentiles be bound to some alleged obedience to sabbath observance, then by all means, enlighten me.

John 5:16-17

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

Someone is bound to point out that Jesus wasn't working in a trade or job, and so His and the Father's labors are not the same thing. Isn't it interesting; the convenient and fine lines of distinction some will draw in order to be right at all costs?

What I would ask of them about this is the authority behind drawing such lines of distinction. Labor is labor, and yet God did no labor at all (so far as we know) on that one sabbath day in the creation week. There's no mention of His having done anything at all akin to the "work of the ministry" or anything else, as some might point out as their distinction authority.

Some have asked me why Jesus would break His own Law by laboring on the sabbath contrary to the Law. As it's written, the Law was UNTIL JOHN, as I have quoted already. He was/is the fulfillment of all the Law as the Law Giver. That's the power of His mission here on earth...to have fulfilled ALL the Law.

So, please explain how I'm wrong. Questions don't explain your position as fully as you may seem to think. Discussion is what I seek so that I can understand why or if I'm wrong.

MM
Ok..so your position is that the holiness of the 7th day in creation week did not continue into the following 7th days thereafter?

If Im correct about your position,then, why did God command the Isrealites to keep the 7th day holy if the holiness did not continue to the time of the command.

God did not command them to make a holy day but to keep it holy..Implying that it is already holy .So Im assuming it would be holy from creation?

It was custom for Jesus to preach and teach in the synagogues on the sabbath days..He was doing his Father's work.If im teaching God's word at a gathering on the sabbath day I would consider myself to be doing the Lord's work,Labouring in the Lord.It is the Lord's day.

Jesus was not breaking his own laws..he was breaking the laws christian leaders made.

The priests did the same in old covenant and were found blamless..they were doing the Lords work.

Matthew 12:5- Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

You are focused on the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law.

What is your definition of fulfill?
 
Now that very may well be the case but do you "keep" the Sabbath???? It is easy for some people to say that they keep the Sabbath when in reality they do not know what that means. I would say that there are very people who are able to "keep" the Sabbath as
As based on the Mishnah Tractate Shabbat 7:2, the 39 activities that are prohibited are:


Notice.......
Writing two or more letters
Erasing two or more letters
Extinguishing a fire
Kindling a fire............(turning on an oven would be the same thing)
Transporting an object between a private domain and the public domain
walking for a distance of 4 cubits within the public domain.
IOW, don’t get stuck on a broken down elevator on the 15th floor in Jerusalem on a Friday evening at 5:59 p.m..
 
Like I said..depending on contexts Law could mean ten commandments or Moses law.

Now indeed the contexts of Romans 7:7 is referring to the ten commandments.

We also have mention in this chapter of the law of God ,law of sin ,law of marriage.

Romans 7:3- So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

The ten commandments was a marriage covenant between God and Isreal.

Jesus died for our sins.But he also died to to set Isreal free from their marriage ,to the intent that they might remarry into the new covenant.

Colossians2:14 is referring to Moses law which ofcourse includes ceremonial laws and a bunch of other laws.
It doesn’t matter the context. We died to the law, which ever way you take the law…

Colossians 2:13-14 NASB
[13] When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, [14] having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Romans 7:4 NASB
[4] Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Galatians 2:19-20 NASB
[19] For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. [20] I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
 
Yes...the law can refer to either ten commandments or the book of the law/Moses law depending on contexts.

In Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions". The book of the law was added after the ten commandment because the people were transgressing the commandments.
In that book were ceremonial laws,a way for people to atone for the transgressions.Civil laws to govern them in their everday life etc etc.

But Christ nailed that book to the cross (col 2:14) as he is now our atonement.

If I may, I'd like to point out that the ten commandments (the Law) also were given because of transgressions. The Lord knew about the grumblings of the Israelites, and He also knew about their idolatry at the base of the mountain when He was giving His Law. So, I really don't understand your point.

MM
 
Welcome back, MM. I do feel your business trip to lala land will expand your horizons, create new Biblicist discussions and lead you and your family to move there. You can become neighbors with crossnote. lol!

And maybe, just maybe, if you guys buy me lunch I'll fly down. 😎 👍

Uh, I don't think I could afford living there. The people I met there all complained about the outrageously high taxes and high prices of everything. Gas was over $4/gal. Food is way too high. Everything is high there...

MM
 
Uh, I don't think I could afford living there. The people I met there all complained about the outrageously high taxes and high prices of everything. Gas was over $4/gal. Food is way too high. Everything is high there...

MM
We are happy here, taxes low good prices for food and gas, our Governor treats us real good, we clap every time he appears. clap clap clap clap.
 
Maybe make a list.
Sorry I have no idea what anyone's talking about here any more.

Number the order of events YOU think a church gathering should be in.

I would go

1. pray
2. sharing time or memory verse
3. Act out Bible story
4. Snack/Communion
5. colouring in/silent reading
6. song
7. game
8. blessing to leave
 
If I may, I'd like to point out that the ten commandments (the Law) also were given because of transgressions. The Lord knew about the grumblings of the Israelites, and He also knew about their idolatry at the base of the mountain when He was giving His Law. So, I really don't understand your point.

MM
Romans 4:15- Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

The ten commandments(the law) was an agreement between God and Isreal..Israel transgressed the law and so a need arose for more laws,a separate set of laws to govern the people.

Ofcourse God already knew all this was going to happen.
 
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