If I may interject, it seems it is God who sustains. Without God, sustenance is impossible. For Hell to exist, God must in some small measure be present, otherwise Hell dissipates like a fleeting dream upon awakening.
in the tomb
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once again i am straight to the point .probably with few rabbit chases . i been preaching messages for close to 25 years i make a point and move on until i run out of oil
please get back to the o.p or start a new one thanks
This is a great reminder for all of us to brush up on...
Rule 2.3 Members starting threads on specific topics expect that the threads will stay essentially on topic. Any member, other than the person starting the thread, who takes a specific thread way off topic and derails the content of the thread will be given a friendly staff notice. A second derailment or continuation of the off topic direction by that member will result in a warning and all non topical posts in that thread will be eliminated. A third off topic hijacking by that member will result in a 1 week time out and all non topical posts in that thread will be eliminated. A fourth offense will result in a permanent ban and all posts by that member will be removed from CFS.
I am not sure this is on the OPS topic of the thread....it seems to be close so I will chance an answer. If not, I am sure the mods can delete my post here.
Rev.14:10 gives the impression that the Lamb of God may be present in hell, and says that those who worship the beast “will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.”
That does not mean that Christ is IN hell. With all Scripture, we must do the diligence of the originals to have the proper meaning.
So when it refers to the torments of hell in the presence of the Lamb, the term “in the presence of” means “in the sight of,” not “in the same space as.”
The Greek word used literally is “before the Lamb”; they will be tormented “before the Lamb.”
The same word is used in Revelation 3:2 like this: .......
“I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.”
That’s the same exact construction: “in the sight of my God,” “in the presence of my God.” He can see. It’s before him in that sense.
So, to answer your question/thought, I for one would say that hell would have no existence if God were not keeping it in existence.
And second, hell is described as punishment and judgment — as not just consequence, but punishment. And so there will be an awareness of those in hell of God’s righteous disapproval present. His disapproval, his judgment, his punishment — that will be present to their minds forever.
Always a blessing to talk with you!!!
That's an interesting thought. I like it.
So, given that in this universe alone is it stated in scripture is held together by His power, and His power alone, and that without it nothing would consist, I don't think we can transplant that over into Hell. We don't know where Hell is located, and there is nobody in that place as of yet. If Hell were in the created realm, then perhaps your observation would hold true, but given that this universe is going to be burned away, I doubt this is where Hell is located, and therefore not bound by any required presence of the Lord.
Does that make sense?
MM
Post #1 was deleted, so I'm not sure what the actual object topic was. The "tomb" I assume is Hell...? Can someone elighten me?
MM
Thread is reopened after slight staff moderation.
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Let's get back to the tomb.
Here's a thought.
Since Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were the first humans to meet Jesus after 3 days in the tomb, why were they chosen? My theory is, (except for John,) because they didn't scatter like the knucklehead disciples.
I'd like to invite more of our sister members at Christian Forum Site to chime in. (Who did Paul give in particular, thanksgiving to in Romans 16?)
God bless everyone.
Bob
I have the same understanding as crossnote - that during his time in Hades/Hell, Jesus went and proclaimed salvation to those who had previously died during the flood.
It's only I'm not too sure it's salvation or His victory he preached in the light of-
Hebrews 9:27 LSB
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
It seems according to this verse (and others) there are no second chances.
I agree! The text says nothing about salvation.
Hi crossnote,
1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared...
The above passage is the message of the cross, the message of salvation which reconciles us back to God through Christ's death and resurrection. Why would Jesus proclaim to them anything else? How would proclaiming victory help them out of prison?
The law was not in existence at the time these spirits were kept prisoner, yet death reigned from Adam to Moses. So mankind still died even when the law was not counted against them. However, after his death and resurrection, the bible tells us in -
Revelation 1:8
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
Romans 5: 12-14
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam,
Romans 4:15-16 says:
15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring...
....and the very reason why I believe the Jesus had to proclaim his salvation message to these specific spirits...so that they have the opportunity to believe in his message and recieve him as their personal Lord and Savior by faith. They were not under the law yet death still reigned...
Galatians 3:22
22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
JM2C
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you are %199 correct there is No 2nd chance salvation . get right before leaving this world or get left out
your welcome to that.. but i cant agree to be fair we simply dont know for sure. for the true correct interpretationSecond chances usually mean there was a first chance. No such situation occurred for those who died during the flood because the law did not exist then and neither did the promise of eternal life through Christ.
and i as well its all goodAnyone is more than welcome to disagree however, I will stick to my understanding of these things until proven otherwise.
Blessings and Peace!