The judgment seat of Christ: Dividing wheat from tares by works.

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In a nutshell first, I don't believe the Bible allows for any 'escape' from God's righteous judgment, where He judges all people by our work. The Bible does say that judgment begins with us His people before the unbelievers. I believe that is before Jesus Christ's seat at His second coming. He do as He promised and separate the wheat from the tares by judgment of our works.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

2Co 5:9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

There are several points, that can be made by an objective reading:

1. There is nothing exclusive to ministry in the words themselves. The judgment seat of Christ is only exclusive to those confessing God by Jesus Christ.

2. What we labor for is for us to be accepted of Him, not just our ministry.

3. The judgment is plainly of the things we do, whether good or bad. Once again, there is nothing about those things being exclusive to ministry alone.

4. And finally, it's the terror of the Lord we are warned of at His judgment seat, not just a deficiency of rewards.

Heb 10:29For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

The terror and vengeance the Lord's judgment, is reserved as a recompense of evil works. And it is specifically applied to His people.

Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

1 Peter {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

The warning once again is to we who name Christ, where we will also be judged by our work, without respect of persons. I.e. no person will be exempted from the righteous Lord's judgment according to every man's work.

Rom 2:3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

The warning can not be made clearer to the believers professing faith in Jesus Christ: If we are doing the same evil deeds of any man, then we are judged the same as any man doing the same evil.

The fear of the Lord is that He is not a respecter of persons, and He does judge all people equally by works. There is no 'escape clause' by faith alone.

Eze 9:6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

2 Peter{4:17} For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? {4:18} And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Finally, we see that the judgment of man by his works, begins with God's people. And that judgment is based upon obedience to the gospel, not to ministry alone. Also, if the judgment that begins with us at Christ's seat is only for ministry, then so is continues on with the rest of the world. I.e. either no man is judged by works unto life or death, and only by ministry, or all men are only judged by works beginning at the Lord's house.

Instead, what the Scriptures shows is that above all people, we that name His name are held more accountable for our deeds, than the unbeliever.

Lam 4:6 For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her.

The equality of God's justice, is that all are judged by works without respect of persons. If any man is judged guilty by evil works, then all men are judged guilty by the same works. If any person is excluded from judgment of works, to be tried by ministry alone, then so are all.

People can argue for one or the other, but not both at the same time. The reason being that the the Lord Jesus Christ the righteous, is not an unjust judge that plays favorites with His own house, while condemning only strangers that do the same things.

The judgment seat of Christ is the Lord's judgment His own people first, where He keeps His promise to separate by works the wheat from the tares.

Mat 13:28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 24:45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/24/48/s_953048

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming, And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken, The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


He is speaking of His second coming, and so that is when He judges His people from His seat. Only the wheat judged as righteous, will then receive few or many rewards for ministry and edification to the churches of God.
 
Hi Godhelpus,

The `Wheat and Tares` judgment is for Israel and the Nations. Jesus was speaking to the people of Israel and confirming the promises of God to them. (Rom. 15: 8)

As for us in the Body of Christ we are not at the Great White Throne judgment, (Jesus took our judgment) however, we will appear at Christ`s Bema seat of judgment for rewards. Our works will be judged as to what was done by the anointing of the Holy Spirit and not for self aggrandizement. This results in rewards or losses, but not of our salvation.

You are speaking of two different judgments - one for rewards ( 1 Cor. 3: 11 - 15) and one for salvation or punishment. (Rev. 20: 11 - 14)
 
Hi Godhelpus,

The `Wheat and Tares` judgment is for Israel and the Nations. Jesus was speaking to the people of Israel and confirming the promises of God to them. (Rom. 15: 8)

As for us in the Body of Christ we are not at the Great White Throne judgment, (Jesus took our judgment) however, we will appear at Christ`s Bema seat of judgment for rewards. Our works will be judged as to what was done by the anointing of the Holy Spirit and not for self aggrandizement. This results in rewards or losses, but not of our salvation.

You are speaking of two different judgments - one for rewards ( 1 Cor. 3: 11 - 15) and one for salvation or punishment. (Rev. 20: 11 - 14)
Yep.....correct again sister!
 
In a nutshell first, I don't believe the Bible allows for any 'escape' from God's righteous judgment, where He judges all people by our work. The Bible does say that judgment begins with us His people before the unbelievers. I believe that is before Jesus Christ's seat at His second coming. He do as He promised and separate the wheat from the tares by judgment of our works.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

2Co 5:9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

There are several points, that can be made by an objective reading:

1. There is nothing exclusive to ministry in the words themselves. The judgment seat of Christ is only exclusive to those confessing God by Jesus Christ.

2. What we labor for is for us to be accepted of Him, not just our ministry.

3. The judgment is plainly of the things we do, whether good or bad. Once again, there is nothing about those things being exclusive to ministry alone.

4. And finally, it's the terror of the Lord we are warned of at His judgment seat, not just a deficiency of rewards.

Heb 10:29For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

The terror and vengeance the Lord's judgment, is reserved as a recompense of evil works. And it is specifically applied to His people.

Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

1 Peter {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:


The warning once again is to we who name Christ, where we will also be judged by our work, without respect of persons. I.e. no person will be exempted from the righteous Lord's judgment according to every man's work.

Rom 2:3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

The warning can not be made clearer to the believers professing faith in Jesus Christ: If we are doing the same evil deeds of any man, then we are judged the same as any man doing the same evil.

The fear of the Lord is that He is not a respecter of persons, and He does judge all people equally by works. There is no 'escape clause' by faith alone.

Eze 9:6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

2 Peter{4:17} For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? {4:18} And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


Finally, we see that the judgment of man by his works, begins with God's people. And that judgment is based upon obedience to the gospel, not to ministry alone. Also, if the judgment that begins with us at Christ's seat is only for ministry, then so is continues on with the rest of the world. I.e. either no man is judged by works unto life or death, and only by ministry, or all men are only judged by works beginning at the Lord's house.

Instead, what the Scriptures shows is that above all people, we that name His name are held more accountable for our deeds, than the unbeliever.

Lam 4:6 For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her.

The equality of God's justice, is that all are judged by works without respect of persons. If any man is judged guilty by evil works, then all men are judged guilty by the same works. If any person is excluded from judgment of works, to be tried by ministry alone, then so are all.

People can argue for one or the other, but not both at the same time. The reason being that the the Lord Jesus Christ the righteous, is not an unjust judge that plays favorites with His own house, while condemning only strangers that do the same things.

The judgment seat of Christ is the Lord's judgment His own people first, where He keeps His promise to separate by works the wheat from the tares.

Mat 13:28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 24:45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/24/48/s_953048

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming, And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken, The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


He is speaking of His second coming, and so that is when He judges His people from His seat. Only the wheat judged as righteous, will then receive few or many rewards for ministry and edification to the churches of God.
You said......
"The judgment seat of Christ is the Lord's judgment His own people first, where He keeps His promise to separate by works the wheat from the tares."

Do you realize that you are mixing Two different and distinct events?

The Judgment Seat of Christ, also known as the Bema Seat. It is a significant event in Christian theology where Christ evaluates the lives and works of believers. It is not a judgment of condemnation but rather a time of rewards to be given.

Since the punishment in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares contains wailing and gnashing of teeth as well as fire, it’s reasonable to assume that it’s an overview of all four judgments from Matt. 24-25.
 
Well.... I have heard of this... I admit I am not familiar with it in regards to scripture... this word... Bema Seat... came out/was revealed... in your other post. I had never heard of it before... so there is the UNCHURCHED me coming out. HAHA.

I do not understand why we would receive REWARDS.... but if SCRIPTURE states it... I BELIEVE it.

I have often heard.... we get a mansion when we get to heaven... I can't seem to bring myself to think about REWARDS or mansions.

My reward is going to be.... GETTING to PRAISE and WORSHIP in the THRONE ROOM. That's all I want. HA.

I have to say.... I can't seem to put myself in the place of GETTING REWARDS.... HOWEVER... I am thinking about Joni Eareckson Tada.... and OH my goodness.... I see her dressed in ROYAL garments covered with precious gems. This thought fills my heart with SUCH JOY.
 
Well.... I have heard of this... I admit I am not familiar with it in regards to scripture... this word... Bema Seat... came out/was revealed... in your other post. I had never heard of it before... so there is the UNCHURCHED me coming out. HAHA.

I do not understand why we would receive REWARDS.... but if SCRIPTURE states it... I BELIEVE it.

I have often heard.... we get a mansion when we get to heaven... I can't seem to bring myself to think about REWARDS or mansions.

My reward is going to be.... GETTING to PRAISE and WORSHIP in the THRONE ROOM. That's all I want. HA.

I have to say.... I can't seem to put myself in the place of GETTING REWARDS.... HOWEVER... I am thinking about Joni Eareckson Tada.... and OH my goodness.... I see her dressed in ROYAL garments covered with precious gems. This thought fills my heart with SUCH JOY.
Its OK if you have not heard of it. I still love you anyway!

Well, the Judgment Seat of Christ is also referred to as the Bema Seat. The word "Bema" comes from the Greek orignal word for judgment. It is when Jesus will render His judgment on His church. It will be done to make a public manifestation of the character and motives of the individual Christian in order to determine whether their works were good or bad.
Think about the Olympics' where contestants are given rewards for their efforts in a contest.

The difference here is that ALL believers will receive a reward. Now you asked why?

It will be done so that God will give rewards in heaven in order to fulfill the law of sowing & reaping in Galatians 6:7-9 and make good on His promise that our labor in the Lord is not in vain in 1 Corth. 15:58.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=df7d...bGlldmVycy1pbi10aGUtZW5kLXRpbWVzLmh0bWw&ntb=1
Yes........Jesus promised all believers a mansion in heaven which will be our eternal home.
 
Well.... I have heard of this... I admit I am not familiar with it in regards to scripture... this word... Bema Seat... came out/was revealed... in your other post. I had never heard of it before... so there is the UNCHURCHED me coming out. HAHA.

I do not understand why we would receive REWARDS.... but if SCRIPTURE states it... I BELIEVE it.

I have often heard.... we get a mansion when we get to heaven... I can't seem to bring myself to think about REWARDS or mansions.

My reward is going to be.... GETTING to PRAISE and WORSHIP in the THRONE ROOM. That's all I want. HA.

I have to say.... I can't seem to put myself in the place of GETTING REWARDS.... HOWEVER... I am thinking about Joni Eareckson Tada.... and OH my goodness.... I see her dressed in ROYAL garments covered with precious gems. This thought fills my heart with SUCH JOY.
The word `mansion` in the Greek means an abode, or dwelling. For us as the Body of Christ we will be given `a house not made with hands,` a new body.

`For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven...` (2 Cor. 5: 1 & 2)

Also, the rewards are crown signifying what was done by the enabling of the Holy Spirit. Then we cast these before the Lord as we worship Him. (Rev. 4: 10)
 
I do not understand why we would receive REWARDS.
your rewards fall under the catagory of works aka things done for the lord.. what we build with paul called it a wise master builder tested by fire wood hay stubble can represent things we done of our own accord. these will burn up.. gold silver precious stones are all thing that came through the fire. stood the test of time .
 
St. Paul says we will judge men and angels. The bride of Christ has her judgement now and she has been accepted. She will go to meet her groom in the air. At the second resurrection all the others will come forth for judgement. The wheat are the nominal Christians the tares are otherwise. This is where deeds and actions are weighed out.
 
St. Paul says we will judge men and angels. The bride of Christ has her judgement now and she has been accepted. She will go to meet her groom in the air. At the second resurrection all the others will come forth for judgement. The wheat are the nominal Christians the tares are otherwise. This is where deeds and actions are weighed out.
Hi 2404,

I hear what you say however, I would phrase it as `the Body, the New Man is made ready by the Holy Spirit to meet the Lord.` (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13)
 
You said......
"The judgment seat of Christ is the Lord's judgment His own people first, where He keeps His promise to separate by works the wheat from the tares."

Do you realize that you are mixing Two different and distinct events?
I agree that the second coming of the Lord with power is distinctly before judging His people, but I wouldn't characterize the two events as being separate. According to the NT prophecies, the time of both appears nearly simultaneous.


True. It comes from the Roman governor's provincial seat, that represents the throne of Caesar in Rome, with all the authority of law and power of execution. The same can be said for an American lower court annex. The bema seats are more proximate to the people, and smaller in size, but just as authoritative and powerful.

The prophecy is that the Lord Himself will come to judge all people and nations on earth. Also by prophecy, we see that Jesus' own judgment seat given by the Father, is movable (as riding a white horse?). He proceeds from heaven seated with authority and power of the Father, first into the air to judge His people, and then upon His holy hill of Zion to judge the nations.



There seems to be some confusion here. You're speaking of our lives and works, and then of ministry? As though they are always the same thing? While it is true that all Christians are called to be daily servants and witnesses of Christ, it is not true that all are called to ministerial office. In 1 Cor 3, Christ's examination of our ministry for reward, is specific only to ministerial works in the body of Christ, not to our daily living.

1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

And I do understand the Christian tradition of excluding our Christian judgment to ministry alone, but there is no such exclusion in the Scriptures at the judgment seat of Christ. We must first all give account of ourselves to Christ, whether good or bad, not of our ministry alone.

As I see it, the two distinct and separate events being conflated here, is between the Lord's judgment of our works first, that all people are judged by, vs the evaluation of our ministry, that only faithful servants of Christ are rewarded for.





Since the punishment in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares contains wailing and gnashing of teeth as well as fire, it’s reasonable to assume that it’s an overview of all four judgments from Matt. 24-25.
Exactly, which perfectly fits the warning of the terror of the Lord at the judgment seat of Christ, as opposed to any such dire warning about ministerial loss or reward. It goes on to fit the warning of His vengeance, if we do the same things as the heathen.

As I see it in the Scriptures, the terror and vengeance of the Lord when judging His people, is only related to His judgment seat, where He separates the righteous wheat from the unrighteous tares. All them doing His will by faith in His name will be resurrected into the air with Him, and all those doing evil, while naming His name, will be left on earth with the hypocrites.

Luk 6:46And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Mat 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

2Ti 2:19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
 
I agree that the second coming of the Lord with power is distinctly before judging His people, but I wouldn't characterize the two events as being separate. According to the NT prophecies, the time of both appears nearly simultaneous.



True. It comes from the Roman governor's provincial seat, that represents the throne of Caesar in Rome, with all the authority of law and power of execution. The same can be said for an American lower court annex. The bema seats are more proximate to the people, and smaller in size, but just as authoritative and powerful.

The prophecy is that the Lord Himself will come to judge all people and nations on earth. Also by prophecy, we see that Jesus' own judgment seat given by the Father, is movable (as riding a white horse?). He proceeds from heaven seated with authority and power of the Father, first into the air to judge His people, and then upon His holy hill of Zion to judge the nations.




There seems to be some confusion here. You're speaking of our lives and works, and then of ministry? As though they are always the same thing? While it is true that all Christians are called to be daily servants and witnesses of Christ, it is not true that all are called to ministerial office. In 1 Cor 3, Christ's examination of our ministry for reward, is specific only to ministerial works in the body of Christ, not to our daily living.

1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

And I do understand the Christian tradition of excluding our Christian judgment to ministry alone, but there is no such exclusion in the Scriptures at the judgment seat of Christ. We must first all give account of ourselves to Christ, whether good or bad, not of our ministry alone.

As I see it, the two distinct and separate events being conflated here, is between the Lord's judgment of our works first, that all people are judged by, vs the evaluation of our ministry, that only faithful servants of Christ are rewarded for.






Exactly, which perfectly fits the warning of the terror of the Lord at the judgment seat of Christ, as opposed to any such dire warning about ministerial loss or reward. It goes on to fit the warning of His vengeance, if we do the same things as the heathen.

As I see it in the Scriptures, the terror and vengeance of the Lord when judging His people, is only related to His judgment seat, where He separates the righteous wheat from the unrighteous tares. All them doing His will by faith in His name will be resurrected into the air with Him, and all those doing evil, while naming His name, will be left on earth with the hypocrites.

Luk 6:46And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Mat 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven
Again, I find myself in disagreement with you. It is my understanding of the Scriptures that the 2nd Coming of Christ and the Bema Seat Judgment are two seperate events.

Over the years there have been several theories put forward on when they awill take place.

#1. Immediately After Death of the believer.
The idea is that when believers die, they are immediately with Christ. Therefore, it could be possible that believers stand before Christ immediately after death and receive their rewards. This option has no biblical support. Therefore, we believe it should be rejected.

#2. After The Rapture.
This idea says that the Bema Seat judgment might occur is after the rapture when Christ descends and raptures the church. Then during the tribulation, believers would stand before the Bema Seat judgment in heaven and receive their rewards. Again, This option has no biblical support. Therefore, it should be rejected.

*****#3. After The Second Coming.
Biblically, this option is the correct one for three reasons and It is the one I accept.
A. Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10 refer to the Bema Seat as a time of rewards.
B. 2 Corinthians 5:10 says that believers’ deeds will evaluated to determine if they are good or worthless.
C. 1 Corinthians 4:5 tells us the Bema Seat judgment will occur after Christ comes.

#4. During The Kingdom Age.
This means that the reward ceremony would be a continuing activity throughout the millennial kingdom as people continue to become Christians and some die.
As with option #1 and #2, This option has no biblical support. Therefore, this option should be rejected

#5. Before the Great White Throne Judgment
The fifth option is that the Bema Seat judgment will occur after the universe is destroyed and before or after the Great White Throne judgment. The difficulty with this option is that there are no supporting Bible references, whatsoever and IMHO it should be rejected.

Biblically, and it should be noted that there’s no specific scripture that reveals the actual time of this event.
But I believe a careful reading of 1 Corth. 3:10-15 and 2 Corth 5:10 leads me to accept the 3rd option above.
 
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Hi Godhelpus,

The `Wheat and Tares` judgment is for Israel and the Nations. Jesus was speaking to the people of Israel and confirming the promises of God to them. (Rom. 15: 8)
Hello Marilyn,

While I completely agree that Jesus was speaking to His Jewish servants at the time, He was prophesying to His NT servants at His second coming. And the apostles confirm in 1 Thess 5 and 2 Peter 3, that the promise of His coming as a thief in the night, is made to us.

Perhaps you are mistaking the judgment of His NT servants, both Jew and Greek, when He comes again, with giving the land he promised to Abraham the natural Jews alone.




As for us in the Body of Christ we are not at the Great White Throne judgment,
Amen, absolutely not. The body of Christ is already first resurrected at the Lord's return. He comes again as a thief in the night, with His judgment seat to judge His people and nations on earth. The GWT throne judgment in heaven is only for the rest of the dead that live again, after His thousand year reign on earth.

(Jesus took our judgment) however, we will appear at Christ`s Bema seat of judgment for rewards. Our works will be judged as to what was done by the anointing of the Holy Spirit and not for self aggrandizement. This results in rewards or losses, but not of our salvation.

You are speaking of two different judgments - one for rewards ( 1 Cor. 3: 11 - 15) and one for salvation or punishment. (Rev. 20: 11 - 14)
I understand this teaching and once believed it, but so long as the argument from the Scriptures I give are not corrected, then I'm compelled to no longer accept that common tradition.

The problem is that the Lord clearly warns all men and women must be judged by our works, without exception nor exemption. The righteous Lord cannot judge one person guilty for doing wrong, and not another doing the same thing.

Rom 2:3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Gal 6:7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Rom 2:19 For there is no respect of persons with God.

The warning inescapably applies to works we do unto life or death. This judgment of works cannot possibly be disannulled or 'sidestepped' based upon what we believe alone. Otherwise, the Lord is an unjust judge playing favorites with His people.

Lev 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

2Ch 19:7 Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.

1 Peter {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:


I can only say that 1 Cor 3's 'examination' of our ministerial works, says nothing of the judgment seat of Christ, and the Scriptures of His judgment seat, say nothing of being excluded to ministerial works alone. In 1 Cor 3, the words are plain enough, that they are only our ministerial labors of love. In 2 Cor 5, the words are equally clear that the judgment seat is of all our works, whether good or bad.

And finally, it's only the judgment seat of Christ that comes with the warning of terror and vengeance for doing evil. There is no terror of vengeance pertaining to ministerial errors.

Unless of course, I suppose, our ministering is so bad, that others are destroyed by giving heed to us.

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
 
Hello Marilyn,

While I completely agree that Jesus was speaking to His Jewish servants at the time, He was prophesying to His NT servants at His second coming. And the apostles confirm in 1 Thess 5 and 2 Peter 3, that the promise of His coming as a thief in the night, is made to us.

Perhaps you are mistaking the judgment of His NT servants, both Jew and Greek, when He comes again, with giving the land he promised to Abraham the natural Jews alone.





Amen, absolutely not. The body of Christ is already first resurrected at the Lord's return. He comes again as a thief in the night, with His judgment seat to judge His people and nations on earth. The GWT throne judgment in heaven is only for the rest of the dead that live again, after His thousand year reign on earth.


I understand this teaching and once believed it, but so long as the argument from the Scriptures I give are not corrected, then I'm compelled to no longer accept that common tradition.

The problem is that the Lord clearly warns all men and women must be judged by our works, without exception nor exemption. The righteous Lord cannot judge one person guilty for doing wrong, and not another doing the same thing.

Rom 2:3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Gal 6:7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Rom 2:19 For there is no respect of persons with God.

The warning inescapably applies to works we do unto life or death. This judgment of works cannot possibly be disannulled or 'sidestepped' based upon what we believe alone. Otherwise, the Lord is an unjust judge playing favorites with His people.

Lev 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

2Ch 19:7 Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.

1 Peter {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:


I can only say that 1 Cor 3's 'examination' of our ministerial works, says nothing of the judgment seat of Christ, and the Scriptures of His judgment seat, say nothing of being excluded to ministerial works alone. In 1 Cor 3, the words are plain enough, that they are only our ministerial labors of love. In 2 Cor 5, the words are equally clear that the judgment seat is of all our works, whether good or bad.

And finally, it's only the judgment seat of Christ that comes with the warning of terror and vengeance for doing evil. There is no terror of vengeance pertaining to ministerial errors.

Unless of course, I suppose, our ministering is so bad, that others are destroyed by giving heed to us.

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Actually God`s word tells us that the Lord`s coming as a thief is to the unbelieving world.

`For you (believers) know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night for when THEY (world) say, "Peace and Safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon THEM...` (1 Thess. 5: 2 & 3)

If we are judged by our works then what of the Lord`s sacrifice?
 
Again, I find myself in disagreement with you. It is my understanding of the Scriptures that the 2nd Coming of Christ and the Bema Seat Judgment are two seperate events.

Over the years there have been several theories put forward on when they awill take place.

#1. Immediately After Death of the believer.
The idea is that when believers die, they are immediately with Christ. Therefore, it could be possible that believers stand before Christ immediately after death and receive their rewards. This option has no biblical support. Therefore, we believe it should be rejected.

#2. After The Rapture.
This idea says that the Bema Seat judgment might occur is after the rapture when Christ descends and raptures the church. Then during the tribulation, believers would stand before the Bema Seat judgment in heaven and receive their rewards. Again, This option has no biblical support. Therefore, it should be rejected.

*****#3. After The Second Coming.
Biblically, this option is the correct one for three reasons and It is the one I accept.
A. Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10 refer to the Bema Seat as a time of rewards.
B. 2 Corinthians 5:10 says that believers’ deeds will evaluated to determine if they are good or worthless.
C. 1 Corinthians 4:5 tells us the Bema Seat judgment will occur after Christ comes.

#4. During The Kingdom Age.
This means that the reward ceremony would be a continuing activity throughout the millennial kingdom as people continue to become Christians and some die.
As with option #1 and #2, This option has no biblical support. Therefore, this option should be rejected

#5. Before the Great White Throne Judgment
The fifth option is that the Bema Seat judgment will occur after the universe is destroyed and before or after the Great White Throne judgment. The difficulty with this option is that there are no supporting Bible references, whatsoever and IMHO it should be rejected.

Biblically, and it should be noted that there’s no specific scripture that reveals the actual time of this event.
But I believe a careful reading of 1 Corth. 3:10-15 and 2 Corth 5:10 leads me to accept the 3rd option above.
Hi Major,

I see the rewards, the crowns given out after the Lord takes us to glory. It is there we see the 24 elders, (representative of the Body of Christ) with crowns and then casting them before the Lord in worship. (Rev. 4: 4 & 10)

The scriptures you have posted in #3 do not say any time except 1 Cor. 4: 5 which says that the Lord will reveal our hearts and then praise given after He comes. That is after the rapture.
 
The warning inescapably applies to works we do unto life or death. This judgment of works cannot possibly be disannulled or 'sidestepped' based upon what we believe alone. Otherwise, the Lord is an unjust judge playing favorites with His people.
Jesus died to take away our sins, He has removed them as far as the east is from the west. GOD said He will remember them no more. Since all this is true, what evil works are there to be judged? The people that go through the great white throne judgement have rejected salvation and thus they are judged for their sins. Yes, we will all be judged by the righteous judge, however, believers will not be condemned. The works that are not for God will be burned up and not accounted for anything. I refer you to John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him SHALL NOT PERISH, but have everlasting life. The bema seat of Christ is for the believers whose sins have been taken away, the great white throne is for nonbelievers and ends in the second death.
 
Jesus died to take away our sins, He has removed them as far as the east is from the west. GOD said He will remember them no more. Since all this is true, what evil works are there to be judged? The people that go through the great white throne judgement have rejected salvation and thus they are judged for their sins. Yes, we will all be judged by the righteous judge, however, believers will not be condemned. The works that are not for God will be burned up and not accounted for anything. I refer you to John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him SHALL NOT PERISH, but have everlasting life. The bema seat of Christ is for the believers whose sins have been taken away, the great white throne is for nonbelievers and ends in the second death.
These are such BEAUTIFUL WORDS.... filled with such HOPE. I don't know any other response to what you have said other than
OVERWHELMING GRATITUDE.... THANKSGIVING and PRAISE.
 
Hi Major,

I see the rewards, the crowns given out after the Lord takes us to glory. It is there we see the 24 elders, (representative of the Body of Christ) with crowns and then casting them before the Lord in worship. (Rev. 4: 4 & 10)

The scriptures you have posted in #3 do not say any time except 1 Cor. 4: 5 which says that the Lord will reveal our hearts and then praise given after He comes. That is after the rapture.
Yes mam we agree and in post #14 I said..........

"Biblically, and it should be noted that there’s no specific scripture that reveals the actual time of this event.
But I believe a careful reading of 1 Corth. 3:10-15 and 2 Corth 5:10 leads me to accept the 3rd option above."
 
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