Yes, yes, but more than that, it is the exercise of faith in doing the works. Now I have to mull over that statement, to see if even I know what I mean by it and, if I do, how best to articulate that thought.
Abraham Saw An Angel, And Stopped.
- Thread starter tjon
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Yes, yes, but more than that, it is the exercise of faith in doing the works. Now I have to mull over that statement, to see if even I know what I mean by it and, if I do, how best to articulate that thought.
Yes, yes, but more than that, it is the exercise of faith in doing the works. Now I have to mull over that statement, to see if even I know what I mean by it and, if I do, how best to articulate that thought.
Yes, yes, but more than that, it is the exercise of faith in doing the works. Now I have to mull over that statement, to see if even I know what I mean by it and, if I do, how best to articulate that thought.
LOL..........I think you agreed with me. I think.
There never was any "magical power" in an animal sacrifice in Old Test. economy because nothing could erase sins. The Blood "covered" the sins because sins were not forgiven and the Law was not given to save, but to convict.
I see faith and works as being inseparable. They are not two different pathways to salvation, IMHO. One's behavior is a direct reflection of the nature of their faith. If one believes that acknowledging the Cross is a get-out-of-Hell card, they will be happy to sign their name to that card and continue a life of self-interest and self-preservation. If one comes to understand the profoundly vile nature of sin and the profound holiness and glory of God, they will not only come running to the Cross, but their lives will be marked by a continual seeking of God's power in their lives to partake, to enter into, that holiness and righteousness. They will seek to do right and to put away that which hinders them from walking in glory.
I thought I was on another thread 
. Abraham talked with God - could that be called Faith? or Knowledge? Actually, isn't he the only one whoever negotiated with God regarding Sodom and Gommorah? I always expect that to end with one good man would save the city but it only went to 10 didn't it?
. Abraham talked with God - could that be called Faith? or Knowledge? Actually, isn't he the only one whoever negotiated with God regarding Sodom and Gommorah? I always expect that to end with one good man would save the city but it only went to 10 didn't it? Exactly. Real saving faith will lead to the saved person having a desire to do the things that are pleasing to the Lord.
But those "things" we do can not save us and can not keep us saved and they come after salvation not before as some have written.
That is the question, isn't it?
Is their faith a dead faith? I only have five minutes to pursue that question. Let me simply say this: if they realize that there is a God who hates the sin in their life and they are afraid of that angry God and don't want to suffer His wrath, and they believe and fully rely upon the atonement of Christ on their behalf, that may well be enough for them to be saved, but there is a huge deficit in their understanding of Who God is and what sin is and it is a great pity that their lives should continue to be invested in futility ala I Cor 3:10-17.That is the question, isn't it?
I think belief in Christ, as our Savior, is the foundation. Corinthians seems to warn that if you fail to build on that foundation with sturdy material that oh -say - using hay - that the hay can be burned but it still leaves the foundation, does it not? But more, I would agree that using faulty materials in building your faith would leave you open to say - taking the mark of the beast - then you're really up the creek.
The birth of Faith in Christ is an attitude (moral/ethical) adjustment towards the Lord's will away from our own (and the world's) which produces fruit for the Glory of God's purposes. This stems from the realization (humility) of how insignificant we really are in the grand scheme of things and how terrible (awesome/ powerful) God is as we approach Him with 'fear & trembling'. There has to be a change (repentance) away from our worldly (carnal/fleshly) 'selfs' to claim salvation. When we understand the notion of GRACE for the first time-I think that most people start to turn their minds eye towards God.
So-what is God's Grace?
It is God giving us the gift of eternal life with Him in heaven; which we do not deserve nor can we 'work' our way into because of our uncleanliness and unrighteousness. What God asks for in return is our allegiance to what is good and holy-to believe in Him-the God of Love. In following Him, we MUST fight to stay aligned with God's will while living on this earth. The battle is spiritual; we rely on Godly attributes as our weapons-and these characteristics come from God as it was when man was formed at the beginning:
Humility
Compassion
Love
Wisdom
Kindheartedness
Tenderness
Gentleness
Mercy
Thanksgiving
Righteousness
Honor
Integrity
Patience
etc....
All things GOOD come through the Holy Spirit of God. We must 'work' against the forces of darkness to be the lights of the world. But we are incapable without the fruits of God being delivered to us through the Spirit. In order to truly access these gifts without fooling ourselves, God will grant them to us AFTER we accept what He has done AND show our allegiance through OBEDIENCE. When we acknowledge God as our Creator, Savior and all things Good, then God gladly welcomes us home as His children.
Quite simply put: when you truly enlist in the Lord's Army-you become an agent against the darkness of this world. Act and train appropriately.
So-what is God's Grace?
It is God giving us the gift of eternal life with Him in heaven; which we do not deserve nor can we 'work' our way into because of our uncleanliness and unrighteousness. What God asks for in return is our allegiance to what is good and holy-to believe in Him-the God of Love. In following Him, we MUST fight to stay aligned with God's will while living on this earth. The battle is spiritual; we rely on Godly attributes as our weapons-and these characteristics come from God as it was when man was formed at the beginning:
Humility
Compassion
Love
Wisdom
Kindheartedness
Tenderness
Gentleness
Mercy
Thanksgiving
Righteousness
Honor
Integrity
Patience
etc....
All things GOOD come through the Holy Spirit of God. We must 'work' against the forces of darkness to be the lights of the world. But we are incapable without the fruits of God being delivered to us through the Spirit. In order to truly access these gifts without fooling ourselves, God will grant them to us AFTER we accept what He has done AND show our allegiance through OBEDIENCE. When we acknowledge God as our Creator, Savior and all things Good, then God gladly welcomes us home as His children.
Quite simply put: when you truly enlist in the Lord's Army-you become an agent against the darkness of this world. Act and train appropriately.
I think God's Grace is equal to His Unconditional Love for Each and Every one of us. He considers each of us precious in his sight. This is truly awesome but it does not make us nothing in His sight. Faith does indeed grow as we journey, each to the level they can reach - no more, no less. The Faith IS belief in God and Christ is our Savior. God asks us to come to him freely - with love. Individually, we have to stuggle with just what God's Will is and the Holy Spirit does help us there. My only hint to others is to struggle with Joy, not work as he makes all things understandable if you truly seek it. I do not doubt my salvation, altho someone else might. Someone who doubts their own salvation, or that they can lose it, once accepted - is being confused by the devil/Satan/Whatever Evil. He wants you to doubt your foundation, as the whole structure becomes unstable. I'm sorry to continue to argue this but the point is important to me. Obedience sounds like a whole lot of work as opposed to following truth because you see it clearly. And God wants us to be sure, not following any false doctrine, because we don't know the truth.
I thought I was on another thread
No one thinks this is worth a response? Humpph. And Rumely asked whether works and salvation was the same path. Can someone who is moral, does good, and abides by the "10 comandments" but does not believe that God exists, achieve salvation?
He can hardly abide by the ten commandments if he doesn't believe in God, can he? Look at the first ones.
Anyway, my point earlier was that one's behavior (works) is a direct reflection of their faith. Abraham obeyed God because he loved and trusted God. If we go to Hebrews, we see a repetition: "By faith." By faith Abel, by faith Noah, by faith Abraham, by faith Sarah, and so on. In each case, it was manifested in an action. A sacrifice, an ark, a conception, an offering, etc. Faith and works go hand in hand.
Salvation is from God. Neither our faith nor our works died on the cross and shed their blood for our sins. Jesus did that. We enter into that salvation by faith, and our behavior follows according to faith. A person who is weak in the faith will be weak in their works.
Works without faith, to directly address your question, do not save. They are as ineffective for salvation as was all the blood sacrificed to the Baals of pagan religions. Works with faith do not save, either, but works are the pulse of faith.
I don't know if I'm making my point clearer or more confusing. I'm trying to articulate it as simply and concisely as I can
Rumely Posts: Works without faith, to directly address your question, do not save. They are as ineffective for salvation as was all the blood sacrificed to the Baals of pagan religions. Works with faith do not save, either, but works are the pulse of faith.
Rofl - I forgot about those first few commandments. Dang. But, I think people who always choose good in their behavior to the world and don't believe in God, if they are no saved - then faith alone saves, does it not? I love the statement you made above, unforunately, it always seems to be others taking the pulse - to tell if others are saved or not. Just saying
Rofl - I forgot about those first few commandments. Dang. But, I think people who always choose good in their behavior to the world and don't believe in God, if they are no saved - then faith alone saves, does it not? I love the statement you made above, unforunately, it always seems to be others taking the pulse - to tell if others are saved or not. Just saying
Grace saves-We are saved by grace THROUGH faith in Christ-God-Creator-Savior. People can have 'faith' in lots of things that don't provide salvation. I have 'faith' (I believe) my gas lines won't explode the house while we are in it. If I didn't have that 'faith' in my gas lines, would I be in the house? 
Rumely Posts: Works without faith, to directly address your question, do not save. They are as ineffective for salvation as was all the blood sacrificed to the Baals of pagan religions. Works with faith do not save, either, but works are the pulse of faith.
Rofl - I forgot about those first few commandments. Dang. But, I think people who always choose good in their behavior to the world and don't believe in God, if they are no saved - then faith alone saves, does it not? I love the statement you made above, unforunately, it always seems to be others taking the pulse - to tell if others are saved or not. Just saying
Yes. I prefer to put it out there as an encouragement for people to examine their own faith, not to judge others. I don't think God will not be consulting me on judgement day, so there is no point in my making such a judgement. It is a good subject for every professing Christian to examine for him or her self.
Yes, I can totally agree with that - it puts me in mind of the old (was it a song or poem?) If Jesus came to your house, to spend a day or two...I don't have a problem with each Christian examining the weak spots in their own path to God. It just seems to be one of the worst uses to try and judge others. God doesn't want you (rhetorical) to try to get to him on the broken backs of other believers. Yanno, the old mote in someone else's eye...
Yanno= You know in net speak
. Or I otherwise meant that one should examine one's own motes, so to speak. I just have a problem with Believers trying to down other Believers. And I was using that in this sense in my post.