Adam, A Living Soul

Abdicate said:
That's why I love my PC! I hate the autocorrect and small keyboards. I thought it was really funny though. :D

I tried to think of why you would put that and how God is a turtle. The only thing that came to mind was, wherever God is, He's at home and patient. :)
Click to expand...

Yes, or maybe slow to answer (in our time turtle) but seems always to be the right time. I wonder how He does that, amazing. I'm going to ask Him that one day.
 
H
Complete said:
* Death is the absence of life, @geralduk, Where, the breath of life has returned to God who gave it, and the body has gone back to the dust from whence it came. (Eccl. 12:7) That is the death I speak of in my entry.

* The story of the rich man and Lazarus, is just that - 'a story' - used to illustrate the hypocrisy of the doctrine of the Pharisees. For the testimony of Scripture is that there is no consciousness in death, and that a dead body, has none of the faculties of reason, or the means of utterance. The spirit (or 'breath of life') of the dead go back to 'the Father of Spirits' - 'Who gave it', and the body goes back to the dust.

There is no life apart from resurrection.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...

Hello Mrs Chris
 
Complete said:
Hello @Noblemen

Seems a long time since we spoke to each other.

:)
Click to expand...
Yes it has, hope your Holidays went well. I've been busy but have managed to squeeze in a little writing time. I have a real HumDinger of a message well not really but I'm going to print it anyway. It's a fun one. "Third and Fourth Dimension."
 
Complete said:
* Death is the absence of life, @geralduk, Where, the breath of life has returned to God who gave it, and the body has gone back to the dust from whence it came. (Eccl. 12:7) That is the death I speak of in my entry.

* The story of the rich man and Lazarus, is just that - 'a story' - used to illustrate the hypocrisy of the doctrine of the Pharisees. For the testimony of Scripture is that there is no consciousness in death, and that a dead body, has none of the faculties of reason, or the means of utterance. It cannot think, perceive, remember or desire, let alone suffer torment. The spirit (or 'breath of life') of the dead go back to 'the Father of Spirits' - 'Who gave it', and the body goes back to the dust.

There is no life apart from resurrection.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...

There is the death of the body and it is buried. But if that was all there is .You have to consider that so was Jesus dead and buried .
But that was not all there was to it . For he descended into hell and" took the keys of death and hell"
I am not saying that if a man finds himself in hell he is 'alive' in the sense of life . But you are mistaken when yolu think it was just a story .
When Jesus spoke in parables he said it was "LIKE unto"
In this case he said "There was a certain man...."
If a person suffers torment then he is not as 'dead' then as you suppose as it were.
The scriptures say there is a resurrection unto death and a resurrection unto life .
There is a resurrection of the BODY that is redeemed .For that is "the purchased possession yet to be revealed"
You say the testimony of scripture says there is no concsiousnes in death? Yet you do not give any of that testimony.
The only one/s I can think of is that there is no work in the grave or repentance . That I would not nor wish to deny.
But that is not the same thing at all as having memory etc.
Indeed much of the torment will be that you can now do nothing nor change , For as a tree leans so it will fall and where it falls there it will stay .
What a man is whatever he was when he dies he will be forever .
Samuel was still a prophet when he was brought forth by the witch of Endor .
and Moses was all that Moses was when he stood with the Lord on the mount of transfigueration .
That too would suggest that death is not all that you think it is . For was not Moses buried?before and could not enter into the promised land
Yet there he is alive and recognisable as Moses in the promised land!

in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
There is the death of the body and it is buried. But if that was all there is .You have to consider that so was Jesus dead and buried .
But that was not all there was to it . For he descended into hell and" took the keys of death and hell"
I am not saying that if a man finds himself in hell he is 'alive' in the sense of life . But you are mistaken when yolu think it was just a story .
When Jesus spoke in parables he said it was "LIKE unto"
In this case he said "There was a certain man...."
If a person suffers torment then he is not as 'dead' then as you suppose as it were.
The scriptures say there is a resurrection unto death and a resurrection unto life .
There is a resurrection of the BODY that is redeemed .For that is "the purchased possession yet to be revealed"
You say the testimony of scripture says there is no concsiousnes in death? Yet you do not give any of that testimony.
The only one/s I can think of is that there is no work in the grave or repentance . That I would not nor wish to deny.
But that is not the same thing at all as having memory etc.
Indeed much of the torment will be that you can now do nothing nor change , For as a tree leans so it will fall and where it falls there it will stay .
What a man is whatever he was when he dies he will be forever .
Samuel was still a prophet when he was brought forth by the witch of Endor .
and Moses was all that Moses was when he stood with the Lord on the mount of transfigueration .
That too would suggest that death is not all that you think it is . For was not Moses buried?before and could not enter into the promised land
Yet there he is alive and recognisable as Moses in the promised land!

in Christ
gerald
Click to expand...
'For in death there is no remembrance of thee:
in the grave who shall give thee thanks?'
Psa 6:5

@geralduk,
This is just one Scripture which indicates that in death there is no remembrance, and in the grave no means of thanksgiving. I shall look through my notes on this subject and find more for you. Here are one or two more:-

'Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might;
for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge,
nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.'
(Ecc 9:10)

'For the grave cannot praise thee,
death can not celebrate thee:
they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
The living, the living, he shall praise thee,
as I do this day:
the father to the children shall make known thy truth.'
(Isa 38:18,19)

'What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit?
Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?'
(Psa 30:9)


See also: Gen 6:3, Job 7:21, 10:9, 17:16, 20:11.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Last edited:
'Thy dead men shall live,
together with my dead body shall they arise.
Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust:
for thy dew is as the dew of herbs,
and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers,
and shut thy doors about thee:
hide thyself as it were for a little moment,
until the indignation be overpast.
For, behold, the LORD cometh out of His place
to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity:
the earth also shall disclose her blood,
and shall no more cover her slain.'
(Isa 26:19-21)

'And many of them that sleep
in the dust of the earth
shall awake,
some to everlasting life,
and some to shame and everlasting contempt.'
(Dan 12:2)

'For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts;
even one thing befalleth them:
as the one dieth, so dieth the other;
yea, they have all one breath;
so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast:
for all is vanity.
All go unto one place;
all are of the dust,
and all turn to dust again.
Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward,
and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?'
(Ecc 3:19)

See also Eccl. 12:7; psalm 104:29 and Job 34:14,15
 
Last edited:
geralduk:
'When Jesus spoke in parables he said it was "LIKE unto"
In this case he said "There was a certain man...."'
Click to expand...

@geralduk,

In the Bible a narration or parable told for the purpose of pointing out an important truth can begin with the words, 'There was' without the speaker actually vouching for its literality. Several parables begin with these words, as can be seen in Matt. 21:33, and Luke 18:2. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a suppositional story told by our Lord in order to indict, expose Pharisees and all in league with them.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Complete said:
@geralduk,

In the Bible a narration or parable told for the purpose of pointing out an important truth can begin with the words, 'There was' without the speaker actually vouching for its literality. Several parables begin with these words, as can be seen in Matt. 21:33, and Luke 18:2. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a suppositional story told by our Lord in order to indict, expose Pharisees and all in league with them.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction .I was only thinking of the parables of the seed and the sower.
But have you ever considered that actual events can be used as a parable?
For the two you mentioned one started as you said "There was ...." Pointing to a past event that the Lord used .
You suggested that the account of the rich man who was a 'certain' rich man .
was but a parable to reveal the hipocracy of the religious leaders? a story and simply that .
Yet that does not explain the very detailed account of it .
Given that there is a hell and there is torment why should it not be anything less that the truth? Rather than a 'parable as it were.

in Christ
gerald
 
Complete said:
the breath of life has returned to God who gave it, and the body has gone back to the dust from whence it came.
Click to expand...
And were does the soul go? Man is NOT soul, and body, he is spirit, soul, and body!! There is no such a thing as man just being soul and body.

1Th 5:23.. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb 4:12.. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 
CCW95A said:
And were does the soul go? Man is NOT soul, and body, he is spirit, soul, and body!! There is no such a thing as man just being soul and body.

1Th 5:23.. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb 4:12.. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Click to expand...
Hello @CCW95A,

We know that in God's eyes, those who have died, 'in Christ', are 'asleep' in Him (1 Cor. 15:18). I believe that we will awake on the day of resurrection, with no consciousness of the passage of time. We will awake with His likeness and be satisfied (Psa. 17:15).

* The soul (or whole man) is not immortal: it needs 'the breath of life' (or spirit) to become a living soul. When the breath of life enters our resurrection bodies, mortal will have put on immortality. (1 Cor. 15:53,54).

'And the very God of peace
sanctify you wholly;
and I pray God your whole spirit
and soul and body
be preserved blameless
unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.'

* Thank you for quoting 1 Thess. 5:23: here the Apostle is not aiming to set forth a tripartite nature. His object is clear; he is desiring that each believer should be preserved alive and blameless to the Lord's Coming back to the earth. That being the case the whole being would remain intact as a living soul at the coming of our Lord, there being no separation of spirit and body in death. The soul representing the life which the body and spirit comprises.

* In Hebrews 4:12, the word of God, as 'the Spirit's sword' is able to discern, and reveal what is of the whole man (soul), and what is of his spirit, the joints that hold him together and the marrow which nourishes him. The thoughts and intents of his very heart are exposed to the Spirit's view. That enables Him to help us in our infirmities, and intercede for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. (Rom. 8:26.27)

Praise God!

Thank you, CCW95A
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Complete said:
We know that in God's eyes, those who have died, 'in Christ', are 'asleep' in Him
Click to expand...
Sister, there is no such a thing as "soul sleep". The body when it is dead looks like it is sleeping, but that person that was living in that body is not dead!! Man was created in the image of God who is also a triune being, and man was created the same with a spirit, soul, and body. When Jesus Christ comes back he is bringing all of his saints with him who have died.

1Th 3:13.. so that your hearts are strengthened in holiness to be blameless before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.
 
geralduk said:
Thanks for the correction .I was only thinking of the parables of the seed and the sower.
But have you ever considered that actual events can be used as a parable?
For the two you mentioned one started as you said "There was ...." Pointing to a past event that the Lord used .
You suggested that the account of the rich man who was a 'certain' rich man .
was but a parable to reveal the hipocracy of the religious leaders? a story and simply that .
Yet that does not explain the very detailed account of it .
Given that there is a hell and there is torment why should it not be anything less that the truth? Rather than a 'parable as it were.

in Christ
gerald
Click to expand...

'Praise ye the LORD.
Praise the LORD, O my soul.
While I live will I praise the LORD:
I will sing praises unto my God
while I have any being.
Put not your trust in princes,
nor in the son of man,
in whom there is no help.
His breath goeth forth,
he returneth to his earth;
in that very day his thoughts perish.'
(Psa 146:1)

Hi @geralduk,

'In that very day his thoughts perish'
This verse alone makes it necessary to look upon the Lord Jesus Christ's story of, 'The rich man and Lazarus', as a masterpiece of Divine irony. No stronger rebuke could have been spoken to the Pharisees. For the detail of this story exposes the ridiculous nature of their doctrines, as a comparison of the verses already quoted in previous entries, as well as these now quoted, will show.

'For the living know that they shall die:
but the dead know not any thing,
neither have they any more a reward;
for the memory of them is forgotten.'
(Ecc 9:5)

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Last edited:
CCW95A said:
Sister, there is no such a thing as "soul sleep". The body when it is dead looks like it is sleeping, but that person that was living in that body is not dead!! Man was created in the image of God who is also a triune being, and man was created the same with a spirit, soul, and body. When Jesus Christ comes back he is bringing all of his saints with him who have died.

1Th 3:13.. so that your hearts are strengthened in holiness to be blameless before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.
Click to expand...

Hello @CCW94A,

1 Thess, 3:13, which you quote, 'at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints', see also,:-

'But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
concerning them which are asleep,
that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord
shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven
with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.'
(1Th 4:13-18)

* Is this not a description of the 'coming' of 1 Thess. 3:13? If so, please note, that those who are 'asleep in Christ' rise to meet the Lord first, and then those who are alive and remain also rise to meet Him. Are they not the 'saints' of (1 Thess. 3:13) who will be with Christ Jesus at His coming?

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Complete said:
* The soul (or whole man) is not immortal: it needs 'the breath of life' (or spirit) to become a living soul. When the breath of life enters our resurrection bodies, mortal will have put on immortality. (1 Cor. 15:53,54).
Click to expand...

The soul of man is forever, just as his spirit is. The soul is the seat of the mind, will, and emotions, and contains the personality of the person. The soul and spirit of a Christian person whose body has died go to God to be with Him until he receives his new, resurrected, glorified body at the first resurrection, or commonly called, The Rapture of the Church.
 
Complete said:
Hello @CCW94A,

1 Thess, 3:13, which you quote, 'at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints', see also,:-

'But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
concerning them which are asleep,
that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord
shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven
with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.'
(1Th 4:13-18)

* Is this not a description of the 'coming' of 1 Thess. 3:13? If so, please note, that those who are 'asleep in Christ' rise to meet the Lord first, and then those who are alive and remain also rise to meet Him. Are they not the 'saints' of (1 Thess. 3:13) who will be with Christ Jesus at His coming?

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...
Obviously sister you are totally unaware of the fact that when Jesus rose from the dead, he also raised us up with hims, and right now we are sitting in heavenly places in Christ!!! Do you believe this? I don't think so. Why?

Eph 2:5.. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Eph 2:6.. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Col 3:1.. If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Col 2:12.. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
 
Last edited:
CCW95A said:
Obviously sister you are totally unaware of the fact that when Jesus rose from the dead, he also raised us up with hims, and right now we are sitting in heavenly places in Christ!!! Do you believe this? I don't think so. Why?

Eph 2:5.. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Eph 2:6.. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Col 3:1.. If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Col 2:12.. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Click to expand...

Hello @CCW95A,

You do me a disservice my friend in making this judgement. For I do hold these blessed truths, and rejoice in them, in anticipation.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Last edited:
'For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
THEN shall ye also appear with Him in glory.
(Col 3:3,4)

This sums up everything perfectly.

Praise God!
 
Complete said:
'For in death there is no remembrance of thee:
in the grave who shall give thee thanks?'


@geralduk,
This is just one Scripture which indicates that in death there is no remembrance, and in the grave no means of thanksgiving. I shall look through my notes on this subject and find more for you. Here are one or two more:-

'Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might;
for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge,
nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.'
(Ecc 9:10)

'For the grave cannot praise thee,
death can not celebrate thee:
they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
The living, the living, he shall praise thee,
as I do this day:
the father to the children shall make known thy truth.'
(, )

'What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit?
Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?'
()


See also: , ; ; ; .

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...

I have just noticed that all the scriptures you quoted (which I had not 'seen' before) speak of TOWARDS God as it were.
If you look at what the rich man remembered .
As the wicked does not keep the knowledge of God in his own mind (romans) what memory then has he of God? For he has no knowledge of God . If he never praised God before how will he praise him for eternity?
If he did not repent in life how will he repent in death? etc
The state a man dies in is the state he is forever .
As a tree leans so it will fall and where it falls there it stays.

I shall be interested in the other scriptures you present .
But I have to say that the account the Jesus spoke of is too detailed and what of the bosom of Abraham? and what of paradise ? expecialy if you consider the repentant thief .
and the phrase "There was a certain man " is beyond dispute speaking of a specific man!

What then do you object about this hell that Jesus speaks of?
Where he found himself and in torment?

in Christ
gerald
 
Complete said:
Hello @CCW95A,

You do me a disservice my friend in making this judgement. For I do hold these blessed truths, and rejoice in them, in anticipation.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...
Sister, sometimes the truth hurts especially when you do not take into account all the scriptures, and come up with a theology that is not true.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top