Adam, A Living Soul
- Thread starter Noblemen
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You talk about "soul" sleep, which is not Biblical. That there is no life without the "resurrection " which is totally no true on any level.
Hello @geralduk,
* I have presented a great many Scriptures already on this subject, so I will not quote any more.
* I do not object to what our Lord Jesus Christ has to say on any subject, Gerald.
'There was a certain rich man,
which was clothed in purple and fine linen,
and fared sumptuously every day:'
(Luk 16:19)
The Rich Man - is representative of the ruling class in Israel. Composed of Pharisees, Sadducees, priests, and scribes. 'Rich' in Scripture does not refer exclusively to those who had money. It described a class of men, whose place within it was usually hereditary. See James 2:5,6 and 5:1-6.
'Hearken, my beloved brethren,
Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith,
and heirs of the kingdom
which He hath promised to them that love Him?
But ye have despised the poor.
Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
(Jas 2:5-7)
'Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
Your gold and silver is cankered;
and the rust of them shall be a witness against you,
and shall eat your flesh as it were fire.
Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields,
which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth:
and the cries of them which have reaped
are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton;
ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
(Jas 5:1-6)
Purple: the word purple describes a cloth which was customarily worn by kings.
The kingly claims of our Lord were mocked by clothing Him in purple (John 19:2)
The aristocratic class in Israel had assumed the place of kings.
They had assumed the authority while disregarding the responsibilities that God had laid upon rulers in Israel. (2 Sam. 23:3) . They were tyrannical and oppressive. They were not just.
They did not rule in the fear of God, or have the characteristic 'shepherd' quality
that God expected of those who governed His people.
Fine Linen: This was worn by the priests in Israel. It points to the fact that a a clique in Israel controlled the priesthood and had assumed the chief prerogative of the priests: that of teaching the people. (Matt. 23:2). These men sat in Moses' seat, as self-appointed usurpers and acted as though their pronouncements were as binding as the revelations God gave to Moses. They taught precepts and bound them upon others but would not apply them to themselves. (Matt 23:3).
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Ref: http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/richmanandlazarus.htm
Thank you, @CCW95A.
* I say nothing about 'soul sleep', it is not a phrase which I have used. What I do say is that the Bible speaks of those who are 'asleep in Christ' (1 Cor. 15:18; 1 Thess. 4:14)
* Our life is hid with Christ in God, and when He is manifested (appears) [Col. 3:4] in glory, so will the members of the Body of Christ. Mortality must put on immortality, and corruption put on incorruption (1 Cor. 15:42). When does this happen but at the resurrection of the dead?
In Christ Jesus
Chris
When you say there is no life until the resurrection that is not true. When a person becomes "born again" they receive eternal life right at that moment, not some day in the future. Even though you might have mentioned the words "soul sleep" that is exactly what you are inferring. You do not believe a person receives life at the new birth which why you say there is no life until the resurrection, which is not true. We have eternal life right now not some day.
The body dies, so what, no big deal, because I am not body, I am a spiritual being that can never die. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This you do not believe because of some false doctrine that you learned somewhere in your life. Even after someone shows you the error of your ways you still stay believing things not true. Why?
'Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,'
(2 Tim. 1:1)
Hello again, @CCW95A,
You presume a lot, don't you?
I have heard the term, 'soul sleep' spoken by others, in a forum situation, but I neither use it myself, or associate myself with any doctrine that may be part of it. I speak of those who 'sleep in Christ', or are spoken of as being 'asleep in Christ', as spoken of in Scripture.
* We have 'the promise of life', which is in Christ Jesus.
'Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that heareth My word,
and believeth on Him that sent Me,
hath everlasting life,
and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from death unto life.'
(Joh 5:24)
'And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me,
that of all which He hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of Him that sent me,
that every one which seeth the Son,
and believeth on Him,
may have everlasting life:
and I will raise him up at the last day.'
(Joh 6:39,40)
'It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you,
they are spirit, and they are life.'
(Joh 6:63)
'Jesus said unto her,
I am the resurrection, and the life:
he that believeth in me,
though he were dead,
yet shall he live:'
And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me
shall never die.
Believest thou this?
(Joh 11:25,26)
"Yes, Lord, I believe"
Praise God!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Yes you did and I pointed out that the scriptures you quoted are in realation to God .Where as if you read carefully his torment memory etc was not relating to God but because God was absent .
So you do not believe that lost souls suffer torment in hell then?
In Christ
gerald
Hello @geralduk,
I do not understand what you say in your first paragraph, I'm afraid, so I shall have to leave that. As to your question concerning the unbelieving dead, and where they are. They are in their graves, awaiting judgement.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
That means those who are dead Christians, whose bodies are here, turning to dust and their spirits are alive forever and with Christ.
Yes! Because when Jesus comes, we, His Bride, who goes everywhere He goes, will be with Him.
Yes, at the Rapture of the Church, who are called to come to be married to the Bridegroom.
Man is a tri-part being if the saved are absent with the body and present with the Lord .
Then the unsaved are also absent from the body and in hell awaiting judgment .
It is the body that is buried ,Not the soul.
in Christ
gerald
"Soul" also refers to the personhood. I is not a reference to the spirit of man, and not always to the actual soul. The soul is the second part of man's make-up: the seat of the mind, will and emotions, the personality---what makes him a person. It is eternal and goes when the spirit goes.
Soul: The Whole Man
* With respect,[B]@Euphemia[/B], this refers to 'the whole man': (body and spirit combined) which makes man 'a living soul'. I agree that Soul does sometimes refer to the life of the man and all that evidences that life, in the form of mind, will and emotion, or personality (as you say) but it is not a separate entity, it is what the whole man IS, when the breath of life enters into him.
* The only thing that we read goes back to God, is the breath of life (or spirit).
* Our Lord, on the cross, said, '"Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit": and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.' (Luk 23:46)
* Stephen, just before he died, calling upon God, said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." And kneeling down cried out, "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge". And when he had said this, he fell asleep.' (Acts 7:59,60)
* Our Lord's resurrection body, was not 'spirit', but 'flesh and bones', (Luke 24:39) the spirit which He had commended to God prior to His death upon the cross, was reunited with His Body. A whole man (although blood isn't mentioned).
* In Philippians 3:21 we are told that our resurrection bodies will be 'like unto His glorious body'.
Praise His Holy Name!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
* With respect,[B]@Euphemia[/B], this refers to 'the whole man': (body and spirit combined) which makes man 'a living soul'. I agree that Soul does sometimes refer to the life of the man and all that evidences that life, in the form of mind, will and emotion, or personality (as you say) but it is not a separate entity, it is what the whole man IS, when the breath of life enters into him.
* The only thing that we read goes back to God, is the breath of life (or spirit).
* Our Lord, on the cross, said, '"Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit": and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.' (Luk 23:46)
* Stephen, just before he died, calling upon God, said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." And kneeling down cried out, "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge". And when he had said this, he fell asleep.' (Acts 7:59,60)
* Our Lord's resurrection body, was not 'spirit', but 'flesh and bones', (Luke 24:39) the spirit which He had commended to God prior to His death upon the cross, was reunited with His Body. A whole man (although blood isn't mentioned).
* In Philippians 3:21 we are told that our resurrection bodies will be 'like unto His glorious body'.
Praise His Holy Name!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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In modern English, and as far back as old King James and his Elizabethan English, when the word "soul" is used, it refers to the person. But we must differentiate based on the actual Hebrew or Greek that is used in the scriptures, and take note of the understanding that we are body, soul and spirit, and that the reference could be only to do with the person in general.
When scriptures speak of a a person dying, it is often said that a person "sleeps" or is "Asleep", but that is the ancient use of a word to denote death, simply because a dead person looks and acts like he is asleep. It is only metaphoric.
It is said that when a body dies, his soul and spirit leave, but the truth really is that when the soul and spirit vacate the body---it dies.
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When scriptures speak of a a person dying, it is often said that a person "sleeps" or is "Asleep", but that is the ancient use of a word to denote death, simply because a dead person looks and acts like he is asleep. It is only metaphoric.
It is said that when a body dies, his soul and spirit leave, but the truth really is that when the soul and spirit vacate the body---it dies.
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That's why I love my PC! I hate the autocorrect and small keyboards. I thought it was really funny though.
I tried to think of why you would put that and how God is a turtle. The only thing that came to mind was, wherever God is, He's at home and patient.
Yep........I LOL!
I agree @Euphemia. Except that I believe that it is the spirit only which goes back to God who gave it, for the soul does not exist without the life that 'the breath of life' (or 'spirit') gives. It was the introduction of 'the breath of life', that made the man 'a living soul'.
The believer only is spoken of as being 'asleep', in Scripture, for only the believer has the promise of life in Christ Jesus. The unbeliever has no expectation of resurrection life, so is spoken of as having died.
I agree @Euphemia. Except that I believe that it is the spirit only which goes back to God who gave it, for the soul does not exist without the life that 'the breath of life' (or 'spirit') gives. It was the introduction of 'the breath of life', that made the man 'a living soul'.
The believer only is spoken of as being 'asleep', in Scripture, for only the believer has the promise of life in Christ Jesus. The unbeliever has no expectation of resurrection life, so is spoken of as having died.
When we die and go to be with God and with our loved ones who have gone before, we will know and be known, because we will be "us". Who we are is recognizable not for what we look like, but by the personhood, our personalities. That is located int he soul of man. It is the soul that communicates and reasons. It is the soul that wills, imagines and emotes. Our souls are an intricate part of our spirits, and so, when our spirits vacate the body, the soul doesn't stay with the body---it goes, too!
Yes the breath of life made us living BEINGS. The soul of man is the seat of the mind, will and emotions, and is what makes us the individuals we are.
Any Christian who dies is alive forevermore, but their body is dead as a door nail in the ground. It will be resurrected to glory when Jesus calls with a shout, and the body of the believer will rise up and be reunited with the spirit and soul of the former occupant and be changed into eternal, glorious flesh, ready to marry her Beloved and to rule and reign with Him here on earth.
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I have heard this line of thinking before, but I always come back to: "Why would Jesus use a false premise for a parable?"
I just don't believe Jesus would use an untruth to teach a truth.
All of Jesus' parables have truth to them. Meaning that if a rich man died in these circumstances, then this would happen just as He says it would.