Afterlife

What is your belief about Hell?

  • Eternal Torment

    Votes: 12 50.0%

  • Annihilation

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • Universal Salvation/Reconciliation

    Votes: 1 4.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • Total voters
    24
Major said:
It is a mystery to me as well.

By the way, I just saw in Time magzine that the RCC has so far paid out almost $3 Billion dollars in lawsuits to settle claims due to the sexual misconduct of thier priests/bishops. I wonder if those men were married the RCC would then be able to save a few bucks???
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The mods have asked us to avoid discussing the catholic faith.

I get your post. But what I still wonder, would someone who believed in God but who was not in the Jewish or then christian faith still obtain salvation?
 
MMurphy said:
The mods have asked us to avoid discussing the catholic faith.

I get your post. But what I still wonder, would someone who believed in God but who was not in the Jewish or then christian faith still obtain salvation?
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I've wondered this about this quite frequently. If you have faith in a Creator but don't have access to the Bible then you did the best you could in your lifetime. Most cultures believe in a creator, so maybe through that faith they can be accepted, or at least given a chance after death.
 
Huntingteckel said:
I've wondered this about this quite frequently. If you have faith in a Creator but don't have access to the Bible then you did the best you could in your lifetime. Most cultures believe in a creator, so maybe through that faith they can be accepted, or at least given a chance after death.
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Well, this is one mistake I feel is made with the assumption that Hell is eternal separation from God. The Orthodox opinion is that it is the eternal presence of God, and ultimately I feel like it comes down to arrogance v. humility whether that presence is pleasant or not.
 
MMurphy said:
Well, this is one mistake I feel is made with the assumption that Hell is eternal separation from God. The Orthodox opinion is that it is the eternal presence of God, and ultimately I feel like it comes down to arrogance v. humility whether that presence is pleasant or not.
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This is not the orthodox understanding.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 (NLT)
in flaming fire, bringing judgment on those who don’t know God and on those who refuse to obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.
 
MMurphy said:
Well, this is one mistake I feel is made with the assumption that Hell is eternal separation from God. The Orthodox opinion is that it is the eternal presence of God, and ultimately I feel like it comes down to arrogance v. humility whether that presence is pleasant or not.
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I can't imagine God being a bad presence for eternity since He is love. That seems strange to me.
 
Huntingteckel said:
I can't imagine God being a bad presence for eternity since He is love. That seems strange to me.
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Well, if you imagine, if you were really arrogant and thought yourself to be god-like, being in the presence of the real God would be quite unpleasant.
 
MMurphy said:
Well, if you imagine, if you were really arrogant and thought yourself to be god-like, being in the presence of the real God would be quite unpleasant.
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I suppose that's true. That's one of the cases against Annihilationism, that we are immortal and god like because we were created in the image of God. I don't believe that and don't feel the Bible teaches it, but to each his own.
 
Huntingteckel said:
I suppose that's true. That's one of the cases against Annihilationism, that we are immortal and god like because we were created in the image of God. I don't believe that and don't feel the Bible teaches it, but to each his own.
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So, actually the Orthodox belief is that we are mortal, and that was the curse for the original sin (Orthodox don't believe that the guilt passes to the next generation though) but Christ died so that He could descend into Hades and resurrect the dead.

So, in a sense they believed in universal annihilation from Adam to Christ, and then eternity in the presence of God from Christ onward.
 
MMurphy said:
What about the non-Jews prior to Christ?
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That's easy:

Romans 2:11-16 (KJV)
For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
 
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MMurphy said:
The mods have asked us to avoid discussing the catholic faith.

I get your post. But what I still wonder, would someone who believed in God but who was not in the Jewish or then christian faith still obtain salvation?
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As I have stated.......All those who were saved in the Old Testament were saved by faith looking ahead to the time of Christ and the cross. It was less clear but it was still by faith.
Abraham’s faith was reckoned as righteousness. And this was before there were Jews and Gentiles.
The Holy Spirit was there to draw people. Gentiles could become proselytes and partake of the Jewish religion. This would be helpful in those days, but not necessary. What was necessary was faith in the true God, the kind of faith Abraham demonstrated.

Remember.........I was the one on the Catholic thread who very early on asked that it be stopped. This was not my 1st rodeo and I knew what was coming.
 
I was the second entry in that thread and said the same thing. If you stick to the word of God you can't go wrong. Learn from the source, then you'll be able to judge ALL and see if they comply.
 
Major said:
As I have stated.......All those who were saved in the Old Testament were saved by faith looking ahead to the time of Christ and the cross. It was less clear but it was still by faith.
Abraham’s faith was reckoned as righteousness. And this was before there were Jews and Gentiles.
The Holy Spirit was there to draw people. Gentiles could become proselytes and partake of the Jewish religion. This would be helpful in those days, but not necessary. What was necessary was faith in the true God, the kind of faith Abraham demonstrated.

Remember.........I was the one on the Catholic thread who very early on asked that it be stopped. This was not my 1st rodeo and I knew what was coming.
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Forgive me, but I'm still not seeing the theological principle here. If Gentiles totally outside of the Jewish culture could be saved, what about non-Christians totally outside of Christian culture? After all Islam believes in the Judeo-Christian God also, they just don't believe Jesus was God.
 
MMurphy said:
Forgive me, but I'm still not seeing the theological principle here. If Gentiles totally outside of the Jewish culture could be saved, what about non-Christians totally outside of Christian culture? After all Islam believes in the Judeo-Christian God also, they just don't believe Jesus was God.
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It is a far different matter to not have ever heard the name of Jesus than it is to have heard and reject Him.
 
MMurphy said:
Still, I empathize with those who unknowingly reject Him.
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God gives everyone a chance---or many. It's His job to make sure everyone has a chance to know Him, and he has given us the job to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ around the world...to every human being. He tells us in His word that to those who have never heard of the Messiah, He will reveal Himself through His marvelous Creation.

There are obscure, remote tribes of people who, when contacted by modern men have told them they already know of a Saviour who came and died for them. Jesus Himself made a visit. His mercy had gone before the missionaries.
 
Euphemia said:
God gives everyone a chance---or many. It's His job to make sure everyone has a chance to know Him, and he has given us the job to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ around the world...to every human being. He tells us in His word that to those who have never heard of the Messiah, He will reveal Himself through His marvelous Creation.

There are obscure, remote tribes of people who, when contacted by modern men have told them they already know of a Saviour who came and died for them. Jesus Himself made a visit. His mercy had gone before the missionaries.
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Yes because some tribal dude is going to believe some random white guy who can't speak their language. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I'd say it's rare.
 
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