And now, a Big Question...

[Major]

Yes, but ....

“Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things.” (2 Peter 1:20 (NIV)) “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,” (2 Timothy 3:16 (NIV)).

Correct! Agreed 100%!!!

The verse you posted has been argued back and forth for centuries. There is a better translation of this verse, as noted by some of the older scholars generations ago.

Macknight rendered it, "No prophecy of Scripture is of the prophet's own invention."

That is the one I like the best.

Barnes also rendered the passage, "No prophecy was of their own disclosure."

The "private interpretation" is therefore a limitation, not upon readers of the prophecies, but upon the prophets who delivered God's message. Barnes further explained:

"The truths which the prophets communicated were not originated by themselves; were not of their own suggestion or invention, but were of higher origin and were imparted by God"

https://www.studylight.org/commentary/2-peter/1-20.html

 

[Major]

I do understand where the word "dinosaur" came from. I just don't understand how Lanolin thinks that "dragon" is an old word for dinosaur, and I'd like to see some sources that suggest that it is. Otherwise, it's only her personal unsupported supposition, and not historical fact or theory.

Agreed!

 

[Saul Mine]

2 Peter 1:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

"All things", get it? If dinosaurs pertained unto life and godliness the bible would fully explain it.

 

[Saul Mine]

The conversation about dragons brings up a concept that applies directly to the OP. That is the extreme reluctance to say "I don't know." People casually talk about "dragons" without knowing a single detail of the concept, and they talk of dinosaurs without realizing that the name did not exist before 1677. https://curiosity.com/topics/the-fi...before-we-had-a-word-for-dinosaurs-curiosity/

We do know some details about dragons that were recorded by eye witnesses. In Mesoamerica they worshiped Qetzalcoatl for thousands of years, and in China they still dance with paper dragons. In both cases the dragon has a feathered body of a serpent, bearded face of a lion, and eyes that shoot lightning bolts. In northern Europe the stories tended toward a scaly worm, sometimes with wings, sometimes with legs. These records, myths if you want to call them that, indicate that tribes all over the world saw the same thing. And we don't know what that thing was.

Oh, one other thing we can derive from ancient myths: dragons were often highly respected. They were not stupid brutes.

Bottom line: Try to consider that you don't know something before offering opinions about it.

 

[Lanolin]

The conversation about dragons brings up a concept that applies directly to the OP. That is the extreme reluctance to say "I don't know." People casually talk about "dragons" without knowing a single detail of the concept, and they talk of dinosaurs without realizing that the name did not exist before 1677. https://curiosity.com/topics/the-fi...before-we-had-a-word-for-dinosaurs-curiosity/

We do know some details about dragons that were recorded by eye witnesses. In Mesoamerica they worshiped Qetzalcoatl for thousands of years, and in China they still dance with paper dragons. In both cases the dragon has a feathered body of a serpent, bearded face of a lion, and eyes that shoot lightning bolts. In northern Europe the stories tended toward a scaly worm, sometimes with wings, sometimes with legs. These records, myths if you want to call them that, indicate that tribes all over the world saw the same thing. And we don't know what that thing was.

Oh, one other thing we can derive from ancient myths: dragons were often highly respected. They were not stupid brutes.

Bottom line: Try to consider that you don't know something before offering opinions about it.

Exactly.

Why insist paelontogists are right when they dont even understand recorded history and think they've discovered a new thing. Then dismiss all reference to dragons as myths? That is really silly and absurd.

The Bible describes these creatures in great detail. Why would it describe something made up, when obviously people saw them. Just because they are not around today does not mean they did not exist back then. Thank God they are not around today as many of us would be eaten.

The Bible also talks about giants in the earth. We know that there arent many giants today but back then there were giant creatures and also giant men and women.

Do I dismiss the giant moa just because I dont see it today? Do I think the maoris made up this creature? How about taniwha, do I dismiss it as myth and that they were all so deluded that they just drew these things out of their own imaginations?

 

[Lanolin]

The serpent is basically a kind of dragon but God punished the serpent by removing his legs and wings and to crawl on his belly on the earth and eat dust.

Check out Genesis 3:14-15

Then read Revelation chapter 12 and you will see the reference to the dragon is also a reference to the serpent.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Looking at this thread, all I can say is that it's no wonder that fantasy dragon (not dinosaur) myths have propagated down thru the ages as they have.

 

[Major]

Looking at this thread, all I can say is that it's no wonder that fantasy dragon (not dinosaur) myths have propagated down thru the ages as they have.

Amen !

It is the old story...……...I like it and I am going to make it happen!

 

[Major]

The serpent is basically a kind of dragon but God punished the serpent by removing his legs and wings and to crawl on his belly on the earth and eat dust.

Check out Genesis 3:14-15

Then read Revelation chapter 12 and you will see the reference to the dragon is also a reference to the serpent.

Genesis 3:14–15 ...….
" The Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. "

There is absolutely NO mention of "wings" and nothing about a "kind of dragon". The actual words used in the Hebrew are...…...
" cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field".

Anything else is nothing but conjecture which leads to myths and error. Read the Scripture as it is without adding anything to it.


Then Revelation 12, where Satan is "Symbolized" as a dragon. 'Why is he described in these verses as a dragon"????

We must realize that John is writing about what he is seeing in his own Greek language. His description is his best efforts at describing war and terror and death beyound his ability to comprend. Failure to distinguish the literal and the figurative is at the root of all arguments which press Rev. 12 into saying that the dragon is a real, fire breathing animal who once lived.

That is "forcing" the Bible to say what WE want it to say. Then if we accept the dragon as real, how do we explain the SEVEN Heads????

Is there any historical evidence or fossils of such an animal????

 

[Lanolin]

Genesis 3:14–15 ...….
" The Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. "

There is absolutely NO mention of "wings" and nothing about a "kind of dragon". The actual words used in the Hebrew are...…...
" cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field".

Anything else is nothing but conjecture which leads to myths and error. Read the Scripture as it is without adding anything to it.


Then Revelation 12, where Satan is "Symbolized" as a dragon. 'Why is he described in these verses as a dragon"????

We must realize that John is writing about what he is seeing in his own Greek language. His description is his best efforts at describing war and terror and death beyound his ability to comprend. Failure to distinguish the literal and the figurative is at the root of all arguments which press Rev. 12 into saying that the dragon is a real, fire breathing animal who once lived.

That is "forcing" the Bible to say what WE want it to say. Then if we accept the dragon as real, how do we explain the SEVEN Heads????

Is there any historical evidence or fossils of such an animal????

Yes there are fossils of dragons which today we call dinosaurs. Do you understand the process of fossilisation?
Yes its all depicted in paintings and illustrations of course its before we had photography. Literature from all over the world also mentions these creatures.

Do you not understand that when the bible talks about a beast, its not a 'beast system' but an actual beast ie. an living breathing entity. Read revelation 12 it describes a great red dragon. Why would it have seven heads. And ten horns.Why would it have a tail. Do you think the revelation given to John is just describing something metaphorical?

In revelation 13:2 the beast is described as looking like a leopard, with feet of a bear, mouth of a lion, which the dragon gives power to.

Have you ever done battle spiritually or cast out demons. Demons dont have a body, thats why they are always trying to get into ours. But if they did have a body, it would look much like serpents snd dragons, people arent simply making these things up out of their own imaginations. Today, when monsters or demons are depicted they are always creatures that resemble snakes and dragons. Why would all the cathedrals in europe have things like gargoyles on them. Not just any old building has them.

 

[Lanolin]

You also need to understand that lizards, can have wings, and they used to be giant. Thankfully many have gone extinct and we dont need to battle them anymore. Snakes though, still a problem because they are small. Crocodliles and alligators are also a type of lizard. All lizards have cold blood. There are many creatures on this earth and scientists havent catalogued them all. It would be arrogant to think so.

Many if the larger animals humans have actually hunted to extincition i.e moa and mammoth.

 

[rtm3039]

Genesis 3:14–15 ...….
" The Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. "

There is absolutely NO mention of "wings" and nothing about a "kind of dragon". The actual words used in the Hebrew are...…...
" cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field".

Anything else is nothing but conjecture which leads to myths and error. Read the Scripture as it is without adding anything to it.


Then Revelation 12, where Satan is "Symbolized" as a dragon. 'Why is he described in these verses as a dragon"????

We must realize that John is writing about what he is seeing in his own Greek language. His description is his best efforts at describing war and terror and death beyound his ability to comprend. Failure to distinguish the literal and the figurative is at the root of all arguments which press Rev. 12 into saying that the dragon is a real, fire breathing animal who once lived.

That is "forcing" the Bible to say what WE want it to say. Then if we accept the dragon as real, how do we explain the SEVEN Heads????

Is there any historical evidence or fossils of such an animal????

Rev 12 is interesting. Not sure I understand the meaning of all the symbols. I assume that the woman is Israel, the days 1,120 days = 3.5 years (aha 1/2 the Great Tribulation), the red dragon is Satan. The male child is Jesus. Not sure what to make of the significant of the dragon's tails and the 3rd of stars thing.

rtm3039

 

[Major]

Rev 12 is interesting. Not sure I understand the meaning of all the symbols. I assume that the woman is Israel, the days 1,120 days = 3.5 years (aha 1/2 the Great Tribulation), the red dragon is Satan. The male child is Jesus. Not sure what to make of the significant of the dragon's tails and the 3rd of stars thing.

rtm3039

You are correct brother.

The woman is indeed Israel.
The male child is indeed Jesus.
The “time and times and half a time” are a reference to 3 1/2 years or 1260 days or 42 months.
The Red Dragon is Satan.

Rev. 12: 3-4 .........…
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns on his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

1.
He (Satan see vs #9) is called GREAT because of his vast power. He will control nations of the world. This is exactly what he did to Jesus when he tempted Him.


2.
He is "Red" because of the fact that he is a murder from the very beginning. (John 8:44). He is a KILLER and uses drugs, alcohol and anything else to kill everyone he can.

3.
He is called a "Dragon" because of the viciousness of his character, NOT because there was a fire breathing animal in our past.
This dragon is the epitone of evil and the depth of degradation. I would also add that , a "dragon" was a most popular emblem of the heathen worship, which consisted in paying adoration to numerous imaginary beings, termed gods, goddesses, etc.

The very foundation of the heathen religious system is mostly built upon fable; and it is very difficult to trace many of their superstitions to any authentic original; and even those which appear to derive their origin from the sacred writings are so disguised in fable as literally to bear no more resemblance to the truth than the dragon of the ancients does to any animal with which we are acquainted.

4.
The seven heads represent seven sequential kingdoms of history while the ten horns represent the ten contemporaneous kings which emerge from the final kingdom (Dan. 7:7).
Crowns represent kingly authority and rulership.

5.
"And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven ... ".
Many present-day commentators say that the passage is referring to the fall of Satan, who took with him one third of the angels of heaven.
This ancient understanding is attractive. It is true that we do not have much revealed on this subject; but all that is revealed fits the interpretation perfectly.

We know that Satan has some angels (Matthew 25:41), and that these are almost certainly the same as the angels of 2 Peter 2:4.
No less a scholar than Dr. J. Vernon Magee agrees that, "The reference is probably to the angels who were involved in Satan's fall."
Revelation 12:9 also mentions these same wicked angels.

If this is the case and I think that it is, is says that the vast extent of the rebellion in heaven when those angels followed Satan and now they are demons.

 

[Major]

Yes there are fossils of dragons which today we call dinosaurs. Do you understand the process of fossilisation?
Yes its all depicted in paintings and illustrations of course its before we had photography. Literature from all over the world also mentions these creatures.

Do you not understand that when the bible talks about a beast, its not a 'beast system' but an actual beast ie. an living breathing entity. Read revelation 12 it describes a great red dragon. Why would it have seven heads. And ten horns.Why would it have a tail. Do you think the revelation given to John is just describing something metaphorical?

In revelation 13:2 the beast is described as looking like a leopard, with feet of a bear, mouth of a lion, which the dragon gives power to.

Have you ever done battle spiritually or cast out demons. Demons dont have a body, thats why they are always trying to get into ours. But if they did have a body, it would look much like serpents snd dragons, people arent simply making these things up out of their own imaginations. Today, when monsters or demons are depicted they are always creatures that resemble snakes and dragons. Why would all the cathedrals in europe have things like gargoyles on them. Not just any old building has them.

No Lanolin, I do not agree with your premise. Yu are using all kinds of extra Biblical material in order to prove your own personal opinion.

Cave paintings and literature is NOT Bible resources and I always stick with the Bible over cave paintings.

You said......…...……….
"Do you not understand that when the bible talks about a beast, its not a 'beast system' but an actual beast ie. an living breathing entity".

NO my dear, you are incorrect and there in lies the reason for your confusion. Throughout the Scriptures, the word ‘beast’ refers to a system, and not to a man. The beast is a system that rules the world; it’s an antichrist system. Daniel 7 speaks of beasts and identifies them as earthly kingdoms. So the beast in Revelation is a beastly system that’s ruling the world (it’s a dictator beast). This beast is not just one human being, rather it is a system that has infiltrated every area whether it be politics, medicine, art or science; the beastly system is everywhere.

This system is typically overseen by a powerful governmental PERSON in power making decisions that perpetrate the worldly system throughout mankind. When Revelation 13:1 speaks of the beast rising up out of the sea, what is meant by the sea? The Scriptures speak of the sea as “masses of humanity.” This beastly system is rising up out of humanity, out of all the people on the earth. When John, the author of Revelation, stood upon the sand of the sea, he was standing upon that which could not be numbered, among all the people of the earth.


Yes I am familiar with Revelation 13:1-4 which says...…………..
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

As always the Bible interprets it self and in this passage The "BEAST" is a HE ( and the dragon gave him his power".)
HE is the coming Anti-Christ, the Man of Sin who will be the world's final dictator.

The DRAGON in verse #4 is SATAN.

Just because I believe that the book of Revelation should be interpreted literally, it does not mean that many symbols are not used. A literal view takes words as they are, unless there is something in the text indicating that it should be taken some way other than literally.

And there is symbolic language in this book. The existence of these symbols has let to two extremes. One extreme says that the symbols are not to be understood in any great detail. Thus, this view has opened the book up to a wide range of criticism and attacks from the enemies of the faithful.

The second extreme states that the symbols are used for unchecked speculation, sensationalism and all kinds of guesswork in trying to interpret them in terms of current events. Such speculation has resulted in far-fetched interpretations, and changes are made as current events unfold.

As for the 7 heads and 10 horns...…please read my post #53 as I explained them already.

Do you actually believe that there were 7 headed dragons all wearing 10 crowns flying around burning down everything they saw????


You said...............
"Demons dont have a body, thats why they are always trying to get into ours. But if they did have a body, it would look much like serpents snd dragons."

Again.............that is purely your own imagination with zero Bible validation.

Lanolin.......do you also believe that Aliens have visited the earth and live with us today???

 

[rtm3039]

You are correct brother.

The woman is indeed Israel.
The male child is indeed Jesus.
The “time and times and half a time” are a reference to 3 1/2 years or 1260 days or 42 months.
The Red Dragon is Satan.

Rev. 12: 3-4 .........…
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns on his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

1.
He (Satan see vs #9) is called GREAT because of his vast power. He will control nations of the world. This is exactly what he did to Jesus when he tempted Him.


2.
He is "Red" because of the fact that he is a murder from the very beginning. (John 8:44). He is a KILLER and uses drugs, alcohol and anything else to kill everyone he can.

3.
He is called a "Dragon" because of the viciousness of his character, NOT because there was a fire breathing animal in our past.
This dragon is the epitone of evil and the depth of degradation. I would also add that , a "dragon" was a most popular emblem of the heathen worship, which consisted in paying adoration to numerous imaginary beings, termed gods, goddesses, etc.

The very foundation of the heathen religious system is mostly built upon fable; and it is very difficult to trace many of their superstitions to any authentic original; and even those which appear to derive their origin from the sacred writings are so disguised in fable as literally to bear no more resemblance to the truth than the dragon of the ancients does to any animal with which we are acquainted.

4.
The seven heads represent seven sequential kingdoms of history while the ten horns represent the ten contemporaneous kings which emerge from the final kingdom (Dan. 7:7).
Crowns represent kingly authority and rulership.

5.
"And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven ... ".
Many present-day commentators say that the passage is referring to the fall of Satan, who took with him one third of the angels of heaven.
This ancient understanding is attractive. It is true that we do not have much revealed on this subject; but all that is revealed fits the interpretation perfectly.

We know that Satan has some angels (Matthew 25:41), and that these are almost certainly the same as the angels of 2 Peter 2:4.
No less a scholar than Dr. J. Vernon Magee agrees that, "The reference is probably to the angels who were involved in Satan's fall."
Revelation 12:9 also mentions these same wicked angels.

If this is the case and I think that it is, is says that the vast extent of the rebellion in heaven when those angels followed Satan and now they are demons.

Thank you sir, that made "things" clearer.

I have another question: Do you think God has a sense of humor?

I ask this because all things are done through him and he knows everything that has, is or will happen. So, I can only assume that God knew that our son, daughter-in-law, and two grand-kids were going to move back in with us. To say that is is a little crowded at the ranch is an understatement. I guess we, when empty nesters, got a little spoiled. I used one spare bedroom to put my clothing and as a place to hang out. The second bedroom was also a place for the wife to call her office. Now, one room for the grand-kids and one for the son/wife. Looks like most of my stuff gets to go in the garage.

On the other hand, we have family back in the house and my heart is full. Thank's God.....

rtm3039

 

[Major]

Thank you sir, that made "things" clearer.

I have another question: Do you think God has a sense of humor?

I ask this because all things are done through him and he knows everything that has, is or will happen. So, I can only assume that God knew that our son, daughter-in-law, and two grand-kids were going to move back in with us. To say that is is a little crowded at the ranch is an understatement. I guess we, when empty nesters, got a little spoiled. I used one spare bedroom to put my clothing and as a place to hang out. The second bedroom was also a place for the wife to call her office. Now, one room for the grand-kids and one for the son/wife. Looks like most of my stuff gets to go in the garage.

On the other hand, we have family back in the house and my heart is full. Thank's God.....

rtm3039

I am very blessed that you were helped and If I can be of any help please ask.


Do I think God has a sense of humor???????????

YES! All I have to do is look in the mirror for proof!!!!

Been there and done that............3 times my brother! But the good news is that my kids always feel guility about it and take us out to dinner all the time, and I have a grand kid who can mow the grass for me!!!

 

[rtm3039]

I am very blessed that you were helped and If I can be of any help please ask.


Do I think God has a sense of humor???????????

YES! All I have to do is look in the mirror for proof!!!!

Been there and done that............3 times my brother! But the good news is that my kids always feel guility about it and take us out to dinner all the time, and I have a grand kid who can mow the grass for me!!!

AH, well, the g-kids are 3 and 5, so it will be a while. The son will be coming and going. He works in the "fracking" industry and is often gone for 1 - 2 months at a time. We will make 1 or 2 more runs and then settle in to work on his training to become a fire fighter.

rtm3039

 

[rtm3039]

I am very blessed that you were helped and If I can be of any help please ask.


Do I think God has a sense of humor???????????

YES! All I have to do is look in the mirror for proof!!!!

Been there and done that............3 times my brother! But the good news is that my kids always feel guility about it and take us out to dinner all the time, and I have a grand kid who can mow the grass for me!!!

Through the years, almost all of them have come back at least one. The oldest daughter holds he record with five. The oldest son, Hagen, hold the record for the greatest recovery. During his first year of college, he was arrested for underage drinking. He was not driving and was months away from turning 21. He and some friends were in the front yard of a house they were rending. The cops came, saw they were drinking a beer, did the breath then and took everyone away that was under 21. He "blew" a 0,03. Anyway, they pulled his license. He started missing classes and eventually dropped out. I knew nothing of this, until after the fact.

He stated home for about a year, until he got his confidence back. He went back to school and earned a bachelor in economics and one in mathematics. He pulled a couple of internships and just graduated (well, in December) with a master's in behavioral economics. He and Jennifer got married last year, bought there first home in St. Louis and he he is working as a behavioral economics analyst for a large think tank in St. Luis, MO.

He did recover really well and I very proud of him.

 

[Lanolin]

Fire breathing creatures coming out of bottomless pit

Revelation 9:7-10
Revelation 9:17-19

Red dragon/serpent
Revelation 12

Beast 1 and 2
Revelation 13

Unclean spirits coming out of mouths of beasts

Revealation 16:13

Woman on scarlet beast which rose up out of the sea

Revelation 17:3

Image of beast is worshipped...why because this beast is so powerful, that bearing an image of it give people sense of protection. Why is it that so many images of dragons are depicted in tattoos, shields, crests etc.

Dragon/serpent/Satan is bound then cast into lake of fire. Why not just kill the dragon, nope he needs to be cremated and burned - totally destroyed because its really hard to kill a dragon. You dont want a dragon rising up again after you think youve killed it, they can fake their deaths too

Revelation 20

Giant creatures in the OT? Sure. JOb 41 all about leviathan
Check out fire coming out of his nostrils and mouth verses 19-21

 

[Major]

Fire breathing creatures coming out of bottomless pit

Revelation 9:7-10
Revelation 9:17-19

Red dragon/serpent
Revelation 12

Beast 1 and 2
Revelation 13

Unclean spirits coming out of mouths of beasts

Revealation 16:13

Woman on scarlet beast which rose up out of the sea

Revelation 17:3

Image of beast is worshipped...why because this beast is so powerful, that bearing an image of it give people sense of protection. Why is it that so many images of dragons are depicted in tattoos, shields, crests etc.

Dragon/serpent/Satan is bound then cast into lake of fire. Why not just kill the dragon, nope he needs to be cremated and burned - totally destroyed because its really hard to kill a dragon. You dont want a dragon rising up again after you think youve killed it, they can fake their deaths too

Revelation 20

Giant creatures in the OT? Sure. JOb 41 all about leviathan
Check out fire coming out of his nostrils and mouth verses 19-21

Revelation 9:7-10 ………..
"The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. Their hair was like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth. They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. They had tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months."

These locusts are not symbols of invisible demons, but of very evil, visible, and destructive men advocating the delusions of hell itself. Back of every evil on earth, in the last analysis, there looms the face of an evil man. Thus, "Under the symbolism of a locust plague, John describes the power and influence of hell operating in the hearts and lives of wicked men." "Human agents are denoted by these locusts."

NO Dragons there. Just locusts that looked liked horses.


Revelation 9:17-19. ………...
"A third of mankind was killed by these three plagues, by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone, which proceeded out of their mouths. For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents and have heads; and with them they do harm."

Again...…….NO Dragons breathing fire there either, just HORSES.

It would be helpful for you to understand that John wrote what he saw. However he did not know what he saw. IMO he saw modern warfare with explosions and so forth but he did not have the language ability to tell us that.

Fire and smoke and brimstone - The exact idea, whether that was intended or not, would be conveyed by the discharge of musketry or artillery. The fire, the smoke, and the sulphurous smell of such a discharge would correspond precisely with this language; and if it be supposed that the writer meant to describe such a discharge, this would be the very language that would be used. Moreover, in describing a battle nothing would be more proper than to say that this appeared to issue from the horses‘ mouths.


Revelation 12...………...
This has already been explained to you in post's #53 an #54.

Revelation 13...………….
This was also explained to you in Post #53 and #54.

Revealation 16:13...……….
"Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

The three spirits correspond to the three personages of the “antitrinity” : the dragon, the Beast, and the False Prophet. All three work together with a unified goal of drawing the nations to battle. The "DRAGON" here is not a Literal animal but is symbolic referring to Satan.

The dragon is Satan and the devil , both names which indicate his slanderous accusations. “When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it”).

"Revelation 17:3...……….
Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns."

No DRAGON mentioned there. Just a BEAST. Chapter 17 is what is called "Parenthetical" and is the description of the judgment on the Babylonian SYSTEM of the End Times upon which the A/C uses to come to power.

Revelation 20.:10..……….
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

No mention there of a Dragon either. Satan, the A/C and the False Prophet. NO Mentiuon of Cremation. No mention of totally destroyed.


You said..............

Dragon/serpent/Satan is bound then cast into lake of fire. Why not just kill the dragon, nope he needs to be cremated and burned - totally destroyed because its really hard to kill a dragon. You dont want a dragon rising up again after you think youve killed it, they can fake their deaths too.

Funny stuff Lanolin. Do you have any Scriptures to validate your opinion?

Some suppose that the unicorn started since of anybody seeing an antelope most effective from the aspect, so each horns were in line and only one was once obvious.