And now, a Big Question...

Dec 19, 2014
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You think everything is a symbol of something else but God shows this vision to John as a vision he doesnt then try to say its something else.
The four beasts are beasts. They are described as such. john doest write well this beast represents africa and this beast represents china. The beasts have dominion but God gives dominion to the Lamb. In revelation the ones take the mark of the beast end up worshipping his image and given their kingdom TO the beast.

Going right back to Genesis...what did God create first? He didnt create man first he created man last and ifnally woman. He created BEASTS before man check out chapter 1 in genesis verse 24

Chapter 3:1 tells us that the serpent was more subtil than any of the beast of the field that the Lord God had made.

Nothing about SYSTEMS. Which am not sure why you would put in caps. Cos there is no word that God created SYSTEMS in the Bible. All the kings of the earth do commit fornication wih the woman who rides the beast. It shows that the beast is the carrier of these kings, not the other way round. When the four beasts are hanging round the throne of God, they are described as creatures, they arent systems...they are living breathing entities that speak. When it says in Romans people worship the created rather than the creator, they are worshipping...these beasts! Four footed creatures! Not systems. Systems can be a byproduct, but the origins are from the BEASTS themselves.

God had made beasts as intelligent as humans.

If you are able to grasp that, then you are doing well.
 
Apr 13, 2019
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Fire breathing creatures coming out of bottomless pit

Revelation 9:7-10
Revelation 9:17-19

Red dragon/serpent
Revelation 12

Beast 1 and 2
Revelation 13

Unclean spirits coming out of mouths of beasts

Revealation 16:13

Woman on scarlet beast which rose up out of the sea

Revelation 17:3

Image of beast is worshipped...why because this beast is so powerful, that bearing an image of it give people sense of protection. Why is it that so many images of dragons are depicted in tattoos, shields, crests etc.

Dragon/serpent/Satan is bound then cast into lake of fire. Why not just kill the dragon, nope he needs to be cremated and burned - totally destroyed because its really hard to kill a dragon. You dont want a dragon rising up again after you think youve killed it, they can fake their deaths too

Revelation 20

Giant creatures in the OT? Sure. JOb 41 all about leviathan
Check out fire coming out of his nostrils and mouth verses 19-21
You need to expand your sources. Dragons are a physical reality, even though they are not animals. The dragon (singular) is a biblical concept, a figure of speech called hypocatastasis. That is Greek for "name calling". I gave you a link to the figure of speech source in another post, and here is the link to the scientific investigations of dragons and other myths:
 
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To understand the bible, the first thing you must get straight is to whom it is addressed. It's like a letter to your uncle: you can read it and learn from it, but when it commands to do something you are not bound by that command because it was not addressed to you. Portions of the bible are addressed to Jews, gentiles, the Christian church, and various people within those groups.

Revelation 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

All the named churches are Jewish synagogues. Each synagogue had a mail clerk called "the messenger", Greek "angel", and that is why John is told to write to the angel of the church. The Revelation To St. John is addressed to Jews, so it contains Jewish figures of speech. That is why goyim can't understand it. There is nothing in The Revelation that applies to Christians because we will all be in heaven attending the wedding supper of the lamb while those adventures are taking place down on Earth.
 
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Dec 19, 2014
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You need to expand your sources. Dragons are a physical reality, even though they are not animals. The dragon (singular) is a biblical concept, a figure of speech called hypocatastasis. That is Greek for "name calling". I gave you a link to the figure of speech source in another post, and here is the link to the scientific investigations of dragons and other myths:
Is not JUST a figure of speech, if it is then can you explain why we have animals like serpents. And why, we have fossils that are of giant creatures that are seemingly extinct today. The bible calls them beasts. That is what we call animals in modern language. Beasts of the field means land dwelling creatures. When Noah built his ark, he was told to put clean and unclean beasts in it. Both male and female. These are animals! Did he put figures of speech in it?

Its not just a 'concept' or a hypcstsasieis. Or whatver YOU want to call it. You then treat the Bible as a bunch of made up stories. Are angels a 'figure of speech' simply cos you cant see them. Dragons are in the OT too and that was not written in greek, but Hebrew. All cultures from all over the world referred to them, not just greeks.
 
Dec 19, 2014
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Complete destruction of fourth beast in Daniel 7, described in verse 7

Slain and ending in flames. Verse 11

Look how many kingdoms worship images of beasts...what do you see on their crests and shields etc. lions, eagles, bears, leopards..all predatory animals.

In revelation, why does God give the kingdom to the lamb, and not to the lion? Think about why Jesus died on the cross, on all the passover days lambs were sacrificed for thr isreliates so they could live. In the garden of eden, the very first sacrifice was a lamb, to give adam and eve clothing. Jesus went in the passover lambs place, he was like a sheep to slaughter.

Have you ever been to a slaughterhouse and seen lambs being killed. Or worked in one. A lamb offers themselves up for food, clothing, and they do not protest. Lambs are herbivores, they dont prey on others to eat. Really think about the nature of the lamb as opposed to all other animal kingdoms. Why would God give his kingdom to a lamb, rather than any other kind of animal.
 
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Is not JUST a figure of speech, if it is then can you explain why we have animals like serpents. And why, we have fossils that are of giant creatures that are seemingly extinct today. The bible calls them beasts. That is what we call animals in modern language. Beasts of the field means land dwelling creatures. When Noah built his ark, he was told to put clean and unclean beasts in it. Both male and female. These are animals! Did he put figures of speech in it?

Its not just a 'concept' or a hypcstsasieis. Or whatver YOU want to call it. You then treat the Bible as a bunch of made up stories. Are angels a 'figure of speech' simply cos you cant see them. Dragons are in the OT too and that was not written in greek, but Hebrew. All cultures from all over the world referred to them, not just greeks.
You're such a sweetheart!
 
Mar 5, 2018
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Here is a glossary for you

Beast- animal
Dragon- dinosaur
Serpent-snake
Fowl-bird
Creeping thing-insect
Cattle-livestock
It has already been shown you that the word "dragon" in Greek (the language Revelation was written in) is "drakón"....which means "a great serpent". Your continued insistence that dragon means dinosaur has no basis in reality.

Dragon - serpent - snake
 
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To understand the bible, the first thing you must get straight is to whom it is addressed. It's like a letter to your uncle: you can read it and learn from it, but when it commands to do something you are not bound by that command because it was not addressed to you. Portions of the bible are addressed to Jews, gentiles, the Christian church, and various people within those groups.

Revelation 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

All the named churches are Jewish synagogues. Each synagogue had a mail clerk called "the messenger", Greek "angel", and that is why John is told to write to the angel of the church. The Revelation To St. John is addressed to Jews, so it contains Jewish figures of speech. That is why goyim can't understand it. There is nothing in The Revelation that applies to Christians because we will all be in heaven attending the wedding supper of the lamb while those adventures are taking place down on Earth.
Agreed.

The 7 year Tribulation is for the natiuon of Israel and is focused on them but the judgments will be a world wide event.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Complete destruction of fourth beast in Daniel 7, described in verse 7

Slain and ending in flames. Verse 11

Look how many kingdoms worship images of beasts...what do you see on their crests and shields etc. lions, eagles, bears, leopards..all predatory animals.

In revelation, why does God give the kingdom to the lamb, and not to the lion? Think about why Jesus died on the cross, on all the passover days lambs were sacrificed for thr isreliates so they could live. In the garden of eden, the very first sacrifice was a lamb, to give adam and eve clothing. Jesus went in the passover lambs place, he was like a sheep to slaughter.

Have you ever been to a slaughterhouse and seen lambs being killed. Or worked in one. A lamb offers themselves up for food, clothing, and they do not protest. Lambs are herbivores, they dont prey on others to eat. Really think about the nature of the lamb as opposed to all other animal kingdoms. Why would God give his kingdom to a lamb, rather than any other kind of animal.
I apologive in advance for the long response.

1.
The first of Daniel’s four beasts is “like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle” ...Dan. 7:4.
The angel who interprets the dream tells Daniel that ………. “The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth” (verse 17).

This first beast is representative of King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. WHY???????
Its rise to human-like status reflects Nebuchadnezzar’s deliverance from a beastly existence and his insight into the true nature of God- Dan. 4:34-35.

2.
The second beast in Daniel’s vision is “like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth” -Dan. 7:5.
A voice tells the second beast to devour flesh until it is satisfied. This beast represents the Medo-Persian Empire; the raising up of one side of the creature indicates that one of the kingdom’s parts (Persia) would be dominant. The three ribs in the creature’s mouth symbolize nations that were “devoured” by the Medes and the Persians. These three conquered nations are known to be Babylon, Lydia, and Egypt.


3.
The third of the four beasts is “like a leopard,” except it has four bird-like wings on its back and four heads Dan. 7:6.
This beast is given authority to rule. The third beast represents Greece, an empire known for the swiftness of its conquests.

The four heads are predictive of the four-way division of the empire following Alexander the Great’s death. Daniel’s vision of the ram and the goat gives further details of the second and third kingdoms in Dan. 8.

4.
The final beast that Daniel sees rising from the sea is the most dreadful—“terrifying and frightening and very powerful”...Dan. 7:7 .
This fourth beast has “bronze claws” (verse 19) and “large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left” totally annihilating its prey (verse 7). The fourth beast has ten horns. This creature represents the Roman Empire, a mighty kingdom that indeed crushed all its foes.

After the fourth beast is killed and its body burned, a “son of man” comes from heaven in the clouds. “He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence” ….Dan 7:13. This man is given “authority, glory and sovereign power” (verse 14), and all the nations of earth worship him. The kingdom he rules is everlasting and indestructible.

As the interpretation of the vision is given to Daniel, the prophet asks specifically about the fourth beast and its horns in Dan. 7:19.

The angel explains: the beast’s ten horns are ten kings who will arise from that kingdom (verse 24). The little, imposing horn with the eyes and mouth of a human represents a later king; before him three of the original kings will be subdued. This evil king “will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people” (verse 25). He will seek to change times and laws, and he will exert oppressive power over God’s people for three and a half years.
This world leader that Daniel saw is the ANTICHRIST, the “ruler who will come” who sets up the abomination in Daniel 9:27.

Given the fact that the Antichrist emerges from the fourth beast tells us that, in the end times, there will be a REVIVAL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE.
It will bring forth a coalition of ten world leaders. The Antichrist will take his position of leadership at the expense of three of those leaders, and he will eventually wield global authority. A true tyrant, the Antichrist will demand worship and seek to control all aspects of life which is exactrly what we see in Rev. 13:16-17.


Now, you asked this question...……………"Why does God give the Kingdom to a lamb and not the lion".

That my dear sister is Bible theology 101. The Lion and the Lamb both refer to Jesus Christ.

He is both the conquering LION of the tribe of Judah, and the Lamb who was slain for the sins of humanity.

The Lion and the Lamb are descriptions of two aspects of the nature of Christ. As the Lion of Judah, He fulfills the prophecy of Genesis 49:9 and is the Messiah who would come from the tribe of Judah. As the LAMB OF GOD He is the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin.

I hope this helps your understanding and if I can help you further, please ask.

Blessings to you.
 
Dec 19, 2014
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Thanks major. I dont mean to say the beasts arent representing the kingdoms they are influencing, but that they are actual beasts. The kingdoms only becomes like the beasts they worship.

The Kingdom of God subjects becomes like the lamb because only the lamb is worthy.

That is why Jesus calls us his sheep and lambs. My spiritual understanding (which may differ from yours) is that Jesus laid down his life, just as the lamb did originally for his people. JEsus did not conquer any nations like a lion devours its prey, or a leopard, bear or dragon.

Recall for passover the israelites all need to kill a lamb and place the blood on their doorposts so the plague would not touch them and kill all their firstborn. All those lambs were slain and that blood on the doorposts literally saved the israelites lives.
 
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I magine for a moment you are Noah and you need to take all the animals on the ark. Two of every kind. You take two leopards, two lions, two snakes and two bears. And you also take 7 sheep. If I was Noah I would be much more comfortable taking sheep then all those other animals I know might kill all the other animals!

But since it was only 40 days maybe the first lot of animals were quite tame and resting or they didnt need much food at the time. But it could be some of the sheep you need to sacrifice to feed those other animals when they get hungry.
 
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WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU HAVE A QUESTION WITH NO ANSWER

Write your question on a paper and put it in a safe place. I used to pin them to the wall, near the ceiling, but after one move, and patching all those holes, I decided that was not the best idea. Now I keep my questions in a fancy looking box on a book shelf.

When God sends an answer, then you can take the paper out and retire it.

You do have to write the question. If you don't it's no more than a foggy thought. Writing it forces you to clarify in your own head exactly what the question is.
 
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Dec 19, 2014
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Rtm do share with us what God tells you. If you ask for wisdom Hes not going to be stingy with it. I asked Him all sorts of stuff esp when I was a new christian. No question is really too big that He doesnt know.

Sometimes the answer is so obvious its staring us in the face. He give us the spiritual eyes to see.
 
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Luke 8:10...……….
"And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."

There is a very long list of symbols used in the Bible along with their meaning at...…………..
 
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Thanks major. I dont mean to say the beasts arent representing the kingdoms they are influencing, but that they are actual beasts. The kingdoms only becomes like the beasts they worship.

The Kingdom of God subjects becomes like the lamb because only the lamb is worthy.

That is why Jesus calls us his sheep and lambs. My spiritual understanding (which may differ from yours) is that Jesus laid down his life, just as the lamb did originally for his people. JEsus did not conquer any nations like a lion devours its prey, or a leopard, bear or dragon.

Recall for passover the israelites all need to kill a lamb and place the blood on their doorposts so the plague would not touch them and kill all their firstborn. All those lambs were slain and that blood on the doorposts literally saved the israelites lives.
If God is constant and His Word interprets itself, the corollary principle is that the Bible's interpretation of its symbols is consistent. This must be true! If the Bible gave us two contradictory interpretations of a symbol, how could we ever feel confident that we understood its meaning?

This corollary underscores II Peter 1:19, where the apostle informs us that "the prophetic word [is] more sure" than even eyewitness accounts! We can have confidence in our understanding of the prophecies and parables if the symbols we interpret match what we understand in other areas of Scripture. Otherwise, we could never be sure!

This means that every symbol from Genesis to Revelation is consistent in its interpretation. If a rose means something in one part of the Bible, it will mean the same elsewhere, though the context may modify it slightly. If God is consistent, His Word—His revelation of Himself to us—must also therefore be consistent.

This conclusion may raise some questions. How can that be? How can, for instance, a lion represent Satan in I Peter 5:8 and Jesus Christ in Revelation 5:5? Is that not contradictory? Not at all! Our understanding is correct, but the meaning we give to the symbol is wrong. We have defined it too narrowly.

A study of the symbol of the lion brings out several characteristics the Bible emphasizes: It represents strength, predatory ferocity, majesty, and leadership. The lion is the symbol of a ruler, a king, and often a very fierce and powerful one. These are the general meanings of the symbol based on a lion's traits. They help us to comprehend what God wants us to focus on in the context. Thus, a lion can represent both Satan and Jesus because they both have a lion's characteristics.
https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/2017/Christ-as-Lion.htm
 
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Its really a misnomer that christ is represented as lion, Ive read many people interpret that but they just arent willing to concede that God sacrificed a lamb right from the beginning of creation and wasnt actually that impressed with lions. Lions have boldness yes, but they are cruel. I dont understand why people would worship a man eating beast.

Gods kingdom is an upside down kingdom in which the Lamb comes out top.