Apostasy Rising: 4 Denominations In Less Than A Week Defy God's Word

Mitspa said:
Yes science fiction is very interesting...and entertaining :)
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The videos you and scripture bird posted make way too many assumptions about. The Big Bang Theory does not explain the spontaneous creation of universes nor has it ever claimed to. And there is no scientific consensus on what "caused" the big bang, we only know it happened from the observations we have made. There are a few, largely undeveloped theories, attempting to explain this, including the presence of "white holes" or perhaps the clash of parallel universes, but these are hardly easy to prove given our physical limitations. We can't exactly run experiments outside of our universe, and it is perfectly valid in science to say, something happened that brought the universe into existence, and we're still trying to figure out what that something is.

Notice, the video I posted was simply a rundown of the theory and makes no mention of what "caused" the big bang, we only know that it happened because of observation. Some scientists will implement another hypothesis to explain the cause, and some theists will say it is a supernatural intervention, most of us say, we don't know. All of these positions are valid, however, it is a great error and in fact a great sin, to think that supernatural occurrences are part of science, as God states, "You shall not test the Lord your God." Which effectively means He is beyond our capacity to test for, we can only study what He has created, i.e. physics, biology, chemistry. Even if a supernatural occurrence were to be observed, it would STILL not be science, as a key tenant of the scientific experiment is repeatablity. If supernatural occurrences repeated themselves in a predictable manner they would cease to be supernatural.
 
MMurphy said:
The videos you and scripture bird posted make way too many assumptions about. The Big Bang Theory does not explain the spontaneous creation of universes nor has it ever claimed to. And there is no scientific consensus on what "caused" the big bang, we only know it happened from the observations we have made. There are a few, largely undeveloped theories, attempting to explain this, including the presence of "white holes" or perhaps the clash of parallel universes, but these are hardly easy to prove given our physical limitations. We can't exactly run experiments outside of our universe, and it is perfectly valid in science to say, something happened that brought the universe into existence, and we're still trying to figure out what that something is.

Notice, the video I posted was simply a rundown of the theory and makes no mention of what "caused" the big bang, we only know that it happened because of observation. Some scientists will implement another hypothesis to explain the cause, and some theists will say it is a supernatural intervention, most of us say, we don't know. All of these positions are valid, however, it is a great error and in fact a great sin, to think that supernatural occurrences are part of science, as God states, "You shall not test the Lord your God." Which effectively means He is beyond our capacity to test for, we can only study what He has created, i.e. physics, biology, chemistry. Even if a supernatural occurrence were to be observed, it would STILL not be science, as a key tenant of the scientific experiment is repeatablity. If supernatural occurrences repeated themselves in a predictable manner they would cease to be supernatural.
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Just because some refuse in pride, to believe they have all the answers, does not mean that one must believe in unbiblical and unscientific fairy tales.
 
Mitspa said:
Just because some refuse in pride, to believe they have all the answers, does not mean that one must believe in unbiblical and unscientific fairy tales.
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Mitspa, I just said specifically that they DO NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS and this is the whole purpose of science. If we did have all the answers we would not have science.

You use this fact to attack the scientific community. When you attack holes in the theory that may make you feel better, like you have all the answers because you read the Bible, but it is not the case. Every theory has holes in it, and in fact the theory that probably has the most holes in it is the theory of gravity. No one knows how Gravity works, and so by your logic it is an unbiblical and unscientific fairy tale, which means its perfectly safe to jump off a bridge, right?

No the Bible is a book of moral understanding peppered with revelations about the nature of God. It has virtually no scientific lessons in it. And even so, Genesis and the Big Bang go hand in hand. You only attack it because you don't really understand what it is or even how scientific theory works. If you find something wrong with a theory, you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, you develop a new hypothesis to explain the infirming observation and then run experiments to test it. The only real substantial claim made by proponents is that the Universe has an origin, and this is precisely why no science lessons claim to understand what brought that origin into being, because they don't have a well tested hypothesis.
 
MMurphy said:
Mitspa, I just said specifically that they DO NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS and this is the whole purpose of science. If we did have all the answers we would not have science.

You use this fact to attack the scientific community. When you attack holes in the theory that may make you feel better, like you have all the answers because you read the Bible, but it is not the case. Every theory has holes in it, and in fact the theory that probably has the most holes in it is the theory of gravity. No one knows how Gravity works, and so by your logic it is an unbiblical and unscientific fairy tale, which means its perfectly safe to jump off a bridge, right?

No the Bible is a book of moral understanding peppered with revelations about the nature of God. It has virtually no scientific lessons in it. And even so, Genesis and the Big Bang go hand in hand. You only attack it because you don't really understand what it is or even how scientific theory works. If you find something wrong with a theory, you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, you develop a new hypothesis to explain the infirming observation and then run experiments to test it. The only real substantial claim made by proponents is that the Universe has an origin, and this is precisely why no science lessons claim to understand what brought that origin into being, because they don't have a well tested hypothesis.
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making stuff up that is not based on real science is not science, its science fiction.
 
Mitspa said:
making stuff up that is not based on real science is not science, its science fiction.
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It is not made up because of the observation of universal redshift and cosmic background radiation, which are both confirming observations of the theory.
 
MMurphy said:
It is not made up because of the observation of universal redshift and cosmic background radiation, which are both confirming observations of the theory.
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They have both been proven to be contrary to this theory by the very best scientist in this field. The gig is up! Its like the pigs tooth, it might take some who are really deceived to accept the truth, but the honest and intelligent people have already moved on.
 
Just so the video starts at the right place, anyone interested in something that refutes the Big Bang ideology can copy and paste this url into their browser. It's rather good I think. :) And a little after the multiverse reference in this part of the video, the red shift information, as well as reference to Hawking, is discussed.

The system absolutely will not start at the point I want to take you all to in this video. Forward the video to 1:01:23.


 
Mitspa said:
They have both been proven to be contrary to this theory by the very best scientist in this field. The gig is up! Its like the pigs tooth, it might take some who are really deceived to accept the truth, but the honest and intelligent people have already moved on.
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Except it won't because the universe actually does have an origin. It's just people who don't understand the theory that are so filled with pride that they deny their misunderstanding are wholly unable to grasp the mystery and awe of the universe that God has presented to us. It is also the grave error of these people who attempt to understand the nature of the uncreated which is wholly beyond the comprehension of the created. And that the universe is created, has an origin and whatever brought it into creation is uncreated has no origin and cannot be understood.
 
Scripture Bird said:
Just so the video starts at the right place, anyone interested in something that refutes the Big Bang ideology can copy and paste this url into their browser. It's rather good I think. :)

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The videos are too long to watch, and they also aren't refuting the big bang, they are attempting to cast doubt on the theory because it doesn't explain what caused the bang, but the theory never claims to, other theories do, but this is an aspect of the big bang theory that is yet to be explained or understood.

I watched the first part, and was unmoved. They present a few infirming points of evidence, but not enough to constitute a "refutation". Especially since that would implicate the belief of an infinite universe.
 
MMurphy said:
Except it won't because the universe actually does have an origin. It's just people who don't understand the theory that are so filled with pride that they deny their misunderstanding are wholly unable to grasp the mystery and awe of the universe that God has presented to us. It is also the grave error of these people who attempt to understand the nature of the uncreated which is wholly beyond the comprehension of the created. And that the universe is created, has an origin and whatever brought it into creation is uncreated has no origin and cannot be understood.
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Well I prefer real science and real scientific study, not this stuff that folks make up in fairy land.
 
MMurphy said:
The videos are too long to watch, and they also aren't refuting the big bang, they are attempting to cast doubt on the theory because it doesn't explain what caused the bang, but the theory never claims to, other theories do, but this is an aspect of the big bang theory that is yet to be explained or understood.
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The one I posted was about 20 min...I guess that's too long to understand the errors one has fallen into?
 
MMurphy said:
The videos are too long to watch, and they also aren't refuting the big bang, they are attempting to cast doubt on the theory because it doesn't explain what caused the bang, but the theory never claims to, other theories do, but this is an aspect of the big bang theory that is yet to be explained or understood.

I watched the first part, and was unmoved. They present a few infirming points of evidence, but not enough to constitute a "refutation". Especially since that would implicate the belief of an infinite universe.
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And how long do you spend on these forums attempting to refute the Bible in matters of creation?

No theory proves the cause of the Big Bang. They all postulate cause. That's why it is called theoretical science and not cosmological factual Big Bang genesis or cause.
This isn't a war between people of faith and atheists science. Both are based on faith. All scientific theories have shelf lives.

“If there is only one universe,” British cosmologist Bernard Carr says, “you might have to have a fine-tuner. If you don’t want God, you’d better have a multiverse.” (Discover, December 2008)
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Mitspa said:
The one I posted was about 20 min...I guess that's too long to understand the errors one has fallen into?
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No, I listened to it, and it was of absolutely no consequence of the discussion. It is simply an extrapolation of the Big Bang theory assuming that all those who apply to it believe in a self-created universe, it is also equating evolution with the big bang theory, which it is not, and in fact they are not even in the same fields of science.
 
Scripture Bird said:
And how long do you spend on these forums attempting to refute the Bible in matters of creation?

No theory proves the cause of the Big Bang. They all postulate cause. That's why it is called theoretical science and not cosmological factual Big Bang genesis or cause.
This isn't a war between people of faith and atheists science. Both are based on faith. All scientific theories have shelf lives.
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How have I been refuting the Bible? The big bang fits perfectly into the creation story. Even so, if I listened to the whole thing I wouldn't have as much time to propagate false science :)

Your absolutely right as to self-life on theories, however, theories are a group of consolidated facts and well-tested hypotheses, and untested hypotheses. The notion that the universe has an origin (i.e. the Big Bang) would most likely be considered a fact, at least since the discovery of Cosmic Background Radiation. What caused the big bang theory is not substantiated. What Mitspa is trying to say is that because the theory doesn't explain what caused the big bang is that means the whole theory is wrong, and that's simply not good logic.
 
MMurphy said:
No, I listened to it, and it was of absolutely no consequence of the discussion. It is simply an extrapolation of the Big Bang theory assuming that all those who apply to it believe in a self-created universe, it is also equating evolution with the big bang theory, which it is not, and in fact they are not even in the same fields of science.
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That video listed and gave the very words of the most respected scientist in this field of study, and they admit beyond doubt and reason that this theory is history... Its a error built by others errors and none of it stands up to true scientific standards.
 
Mitspa said:
That video listed and gave the very words of the most respected scientist in this field of study, and they admit beyond doubt and reason that this theory is history... Its a error built by others errors and none of it stands up to true scientific standards.
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Mitspa can you explain in relatively scientific terms what how you think the universe came into being? Or do you?

Also his quotes of other scientists are hearsay, they can't respond to those claims. Show me a non-atheist scientists that does not believe in the Big Bang Theory.
 
MMurphy said:
Mitspa can you explain in relatively scientific terms what how you think the universe came into being? Or do you?
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Look..your missing the point? I admit my religious beliefs and I am glad to say that the Word of God created all things! Its a matter of faith that I accept and don't have to have a bunch of knuckle headed scientist to agree with me. I know I am right, because God is right and His Word is sure! This big bang theory is just another religion, it always was!
 
Mitspa said:
Look..your missing the point? I admit my religious beliefs and I am glad to say that the Word of God created all things! Its a matter of faith that I accept and don't have to have a bunch of knuckle headed scientist to agree with me. I know I am right, because God is right and His Word is sure! This big bang theory is just another religion, it always was!
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But that's the thing mitspa, it isn't a religion because it has empirical evidence to support it. We don't yet know what caused it and most who hate the theory do so exactly because it supports theism.
 
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