How about millions of non-Christians like Muslims who never heard of Jesus or many other religions. Where will they go ?
Are you sure /feel you're going to heaven?
- Thread starter autumn oddity
- Start date
Hi hi.
I've, myself, considered the prompt many times. Yet, at the end, if a believer could lose their salvation, they would. Therefore, our salvation is not shackled to works, but solely on the grace and mercies of the Lord.
Jesus's ministry began with, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand."
Romans 10:9 - "...that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved..."
Proverbs 3:5-6 - "Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding."
Thus, if you repent, confess Jesus as Lord, and believe He rose and conquered death and sin, you shall be saved. Then, since He is your Lord, trust in Him with all your heart, leaning not on your own understanding.
Regarding your question, I first want to make clear all other religions besides Christianity is false as in Acts 4:12 - "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." With that, people who believe not in God's Son, and instead in idols or likewise, will not be graced. They, meaning those who had heard the Gospel, yet deny and reject its power and message.
Now, of those who have not heard, will they too be sentenced? Recall it is the Lord alone who saves, evidenced in the passage of Acts 4:12. Because it is He who saves, He will lead believers to witness to unbelievers, for He is "...not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." -- 2 Peter 3:9.
However, even in the case of an absence of evangelistic pursuit, Romans 1:20, "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Then there is also the presence of a God-given conscience, "...in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them..."
Thanks.
I've, myself, considered the prompt many times. Yet, at the end, if a believer could lose their salvation, they would. Therefore, our salvation is not shackled to works, but solely on the grace and mercies of the Lord.
Jesus's ministry began with, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand."
Romans 10:9 - "...that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved..."
Proverbs 3:5-6 - "Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding."
Thus, if you repent, confess Jesus as Lord, and believe He rose and conquered death and sin, you shall be saved. Then, since He is your Lord, trust in Him with all your heart, leaning not on your own understanding.
Hello wwjosh.
Regarding your question, I first want to make clear all other religions besides Christianity is false as in Acts 4:12 - "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." With that, people who believe not in God's Son, and instead in idols or likewise, will not be graced. They, meaning those who had heard the Gospel, yet deny and reject its power and message.
Now, of those who have not heard, will they too be sentenced? Recall it is the Lord alone who saves, evidenced in the passage of Acts 4:12. Because it is He who saves, He will lead believers to witness to unbelievers, for He is "...not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." -- 2 Peter 3:9.
However, even in the case of an absence of evangelistic pursuit, Romans 1:20, "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Then there is also the presence of a God-given conscience, "...in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them..."
Thanks.
Glomung
Account Closed
Scripture does not directly speak to this, but it is implied in Isaiah and Revelations.
The Calvinists would have you believe that they (the non-Christians) were born to be damned, with no options or say in the matter.
Many other Protestant denominations would say something similar.
In my opinion, and many here will vehemently disagree, all the pagans who did not have the opportunity to make a clear choice for or against Christ in their lives will live again and will have the opportunity to make a choice then. That is what the Millenium is for.
For God would that none should perish.
Are there calvinists on this forum? While I'm not a calvinist, I feel that this statement is mildly one sided.
I believe we are to repent. Seek Yeshua and the Hebrew ways as Yeshua did. So we may be a reflection of Him. Go back to the roots. Learn the Hebrew Alphabet. Observe the Sabbath and keep it Holy. Love Him by keeping His commandments.
?
/
Guest
I will keep it short and sweet, "we're all bound for Heaven eventually".
gotta admit that is an interesting thought and the only one I've heard that makes any sense.
Not wanting to pick an argument, but how is learning the Hebrew Aphabet useful for those who don't want to speak or read Hebrew?
"These things are written that ye might know ye have eternal life" 1John 5:13
The promise is not that you will go to heaven but ye have eternal life .
John 5:13 These things have I written unto you is that believe on the Son of God that ye may know ye have eternal life and that ye believe on the Son of God.
It is then a perpetual continuation and life that ye believe on the Son of God .
"and this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent" John 17 :3.
"For as the Father has life in Himself ,so hath he given to the Son to hath life in Himself ..." John 5:26
Therefore "He who has the Son has life and he who has not the Son of God hath not life" 1John 5:12
"and this is the record that God hath given us eternal life and this life is in His Son" 1John 5:11
It is very instructive to do a word search on "eternal life"
Thus if we are trying to find some feeling as it were and assurance of heaven' we will miss the mark.
But there is the BODY of truth which is scripture .
Then there is the Spirit of truth which has been promised and given to us if we are His who will not only lead us into all truth (that is scripture)But also bear witness with our spirits that we are children of God .
Who also is the "ernest " of our inheritance .
If then we have believed on the Son of God and do honour the scriptures as from God then we by the same know that we have eternal life . Not a life independent from God. But because Christ dwelleth in our hearts who is our life .
Heaven is not the goal . I would argue it should be Pauls objective .
To KNOW HIM whom our soul loveth and who gave himself and his life to the church .To be head overall things to the church.
in Christ
gerald
If then a person who HAS heard the gospel then rejects it how much the sorer condemnation with those you say have not heard it .
There is only ONE WAY and that is through Jesus Christ .
A Muslim who may and often do it seems reads the Bible but only to justify themselves rather than glorify God . Is even under a greater condemnation than those who you say have not heard.
For not only do they lay to the claim they honour the prophets of the Old testament but even say they honour Jesus as a true prophet of God . But deny it by their opposing doctrines and practices in the worship of God and in purely adhering to externals.
As well as denying the scriptures as to the truth about God and of Jesus .
If you read Pauls argument in Romans and follow it .
He proves that NO MAN has any excuse .Whether the Jew who has the law or the gentile who has not the law and argues and proves that BOTH are sold unto sin and that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
If then a man you say has not heard the gospel he has been given a life to live freely and without strings to make his own decisions.
What applies under the law applies also to those without the law .
and a man who is a gentile will and can soon learn by the grace of God that his hearts is as all mens and is as the scripture says it is ."desperately wicked and deceitful above all else and who can know it?"
If he knows not the scripture . The God will and does and can mercifully allow the mans own circumstances decisions and life convince him of it .
What he does with the truth about himself who he does know then will determine where he will spend eternity.
in Christ
gerald
If knowing the Hebrew tounge and alphabet did not profit Saul of Tarsus nor indeed the religionists and leaders who opposed Jesus .
What makes anyone think that it will or can in by and of itself profit any one today?
If ALL scripture was inspired by God or the Holy Spirit.
"Who knows the mind of God"
Then the same Holy Spirit is needed in equal measure to understand what was written and inspired by Him. According to the mind of God.
For I do not see a better understanding or greater faith by many who boast in their understanding of Hebrew .
Some times (but not always) I see great errors being taught on the back of their more 'qualified' understanding of Hebrewand indeed the Greek.
I once had a lengthy conversation with a Moslem who came out with the statement "that only the Koran in Arabic is the pure or true word of God"
Surprised I asked him "if he had been lying to me this last hour or so" Shocked he said "no!"
I did not think he had either .
So I asked him did he then believe God was an Arab?
He of course said no.
I then asked if God was an Englishman? He shocked said no also .
Then I asked Chinese ,French? and others .
I then replied to him then are these not all MANS languages?
and God must have as it were His own language ?
For God is not a man .
Indeed is it not written that " God humbles himself to speak to man"?
Then the message of God that "goeth forth out of my mouth " does not change .
and can be translated accurately into any language . IF and its a BIG if mens mind and will is in subjection or ruled to the mind and Spirit of God .
in Christ
gerald
I will say this! The Hebrew Alphabet is very deep and unlocks many things. The Hebrew language is the Holy tongue. I will give you a little example to show you what I am saying is true...
If one looks in Genesis on our KJV, NKJV you will not see it. Only in the Hebrew Tanakh or scrolls can you see it. Genesis 1:1 says: In the beginning of God's creating( Alef/Tav)the heavens and the earth. "Alef is the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet, and Tav is the last letter." I find it interesting that Yeshua calls Himself the "Word". He is the "Alef" and "Tav". There is more!!! Alef means: gentle, tame, leader, strength, what is first, Adonai, thousand, teach, ox, power. Alef numerical value is 1. It can not be divided. The letter is silent. Has no sound.
Alef is made up of a Vav and two Yods. Interesting enough that there are two Yods which mean hand, to work, a deed done, a finished work. Vav means nail, hook, peg, joining together, making secure, becoming bound(nailed too).
THIS is why we should at least learn the Hebrew alphabet. We got alphabet from the first two words in. Alef and Bet. Hmmmm
We can go to church all we want and not get fed. I can make a feel good message out of verses all through the Bible, but they never keep things in context.
I look at things this way. How are we to understand someone foreign and build a relationship with them if we can communicate. Yes He divided the language, but it up to each one of us as an individual to seek answers and to build that Love relationship with our Creator. There is SOOOO much more to explain, but I am still seeking; and the more I do the greater my foundation is.
Saul was a Pharisee, of the Tribe of Benjamin. He knew the Torah and the prophets word for word. He taught the Law/Torah. there was NO New Testament when the Disciples walked the Earth. Only what was already written. His disciples were Jews.
The Law has never been nulled out like they teach in churches. The Law is there for instructions on how we should live. It leads us to righteousness. Some of the things we cannot do according to the Law because there is no more Temple, no more Aaronic or High Priesthood. We are to follow the Sabbath since it one of the 10 commandments. We are to keep His feast/festivals to help us understand what is to come.
Amen
Last edited:
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the HEAVEN and the earth.
Most modern 'translation' have it translated as heavenS this is clearly wrong .
Not only in the translation of the Hebrew word but also the understanding of the message .
For it was not HEAVEN that was in darkness but the EARTH .
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the HEAVEN and the EARTH
Gen 1:2 and the EARTH was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep ...
From verse two onwards all that is spoken of is the EARTH .
Till you get to that verse that's speaks of the waters that are above the firmament and the waters that are below the firmament .
"and the firmament he called HEAVEN ."
Clearly then this firmament or heaven is not the same HEAVEN as in Gen 1:1.
We have then three heavenS . The first one mentioned in Gen 1:1 .
The next the firmament that is called heaven.
and the other heaven where "he made the stars also" and in which the sun and the moon reside.
The first verse of Gen 2:1 speaks of HEAVENS . Which relates to the two heavens of the earth .
If then you put HEAVENS in chapter 1:1 and in chapter 2:1 you can make the mistake of thinking that the HEAVENS of chapter 1 are the same as chapter 2 .
This is not possible as shown above .
The order of God is first the seen and the unseen created .
The HEAVEN of 1:1 is the heaven where Gods throne and all the host of heaven is .
The other two heavens is of earth and are seen .
I would agree that the Old testament is not annulled and you can never know the depths hights and breadth of the New without the Old Testament . Nor does it make sense .
But the Old Testament is incomplete without the new .
Saul of Tarsus albeit Hebrew was his mother tounge .Despite all his learning despite sitting
under the greatest theologian of the day . Did not understand the scriptures and did not understand so much that he persecuted the church and agreed with Stephens death and thought it was Gods will.
There is profit in understanding Hebrew . But the letter killeth and it is the Spirit that giveth life .
There is then the BODY of truth which is the scriptures and there is the Spirit of truth .
It is the Spirit of truth that leads us into all truth . Not our intellect; for in of and by itself it is a false light .
I cannot for the life of me learn how to speak or write Spanish or Italian, there is now way I can learn Hebrew or even its alphabet.
I do not believe we must learn a whole other alphabet in order to learn about God or Jesus. He speaks to us in our own language and alphabet.
You don't have to... there are tools galore out there that'll do it for you. I use TheWord.net, it's free and tells me what those words mean in Hebrew or Greek including the tense and all. But if you don't read what's in your native language, learning those others won't help much.
Believe it or not, but I loathe doing any kind of Bible study on the computer and prefer my pen and paper books and Bible.
So I do not use my computer to read/study the Bible.
Don't matter to me none. Whatever it takes to grow in the Lord.
What do we do with these scriptures that describe the believer in Heavenly places in Christ?
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,