Reminds me of the Chinese-Indian boarder. No guns allowed . Only fisty cuffs sticks and lots of rock throwing . They all seem to enjoy very much
Balloon From China
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
Maybe including the balloon as well
I guess someone doesn't care if the 2 bus length balloon is spotted
Maybe the future of bus travel zooming around with the balloon to your destination. And environmental friendly too until touchdown: )
Hi Prim90,
Thank you for your detailed response and interesting view points.
On the relative value of violating international protocols and sovereignty, yes, it is hard to believe that the Chinese are merely interested in the temperature in Billings Montana. I believe I can find out very detailed meteorological measurements over the military installations in Montana with my humble Chinese made iPhone, and this with little chance of provoking a military or political response.
This does make it all the more interesting why China would risk such expense in both treasure and political embarrassment. Something more than typical weather forecasting is likely involved.
But then I believe that most entities, be they personal, criminal or political operate from a deep arrogance that blinds their eyes to the possibility of being caught and perhaps, more importantly, to the resulting consequences. History is replete with examples of this and I deduce you are well read and likely familiar with this idea of ‘the hubris of men and nations’.
Speaking of consequences, all major (and most minor) countries operate clandestine spying programs. However, there is one cardinal rule that applies equally to all these illegal intelligence gathering entities:
Don’t get caught… and if you are caught then be prepared to suffer some consequences.
No matter what everyone else is doing, there are always serious consequences to be had when the lights come on and you happen to be the one caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
I don’t always agree with you but I do enjoy your posts and hope you have a blessed day Prim90
Thank you for your detailed response and interesting view points.
On the relative value of violating international protocols and sovereignty, yes, it is hard to believe that the Chinese are merely interested in the temperature in Billings Montana. I believe I can find out very detailed meteorological measurements over the military installations in Montana with my humble Chinese made iPhone, and this with little chance of provoking a military or political response.
This does make it all the more interesting why China would risk such expense in both treasure and political embarrassment. Something more than typical weather forecasting is likely involved.
But then I believe that most entities, be they personal, criminal or political operate from a deep arrogance that blinds their eyes to the possibility of being caught and perhaps, more importantly, to the resulting consequences. History is replete with examples of this and I deduce you are well read and likely familiar with this idea of ‘the hubris of men and nations’.
Speaking of consequences, all major (and most minor) countries operate clandestine spying programs. However, there is one cardinal rule that applies equally to all these illegal intelligence gathering entities:
Don’t get caught… and if you are caught then be prepared to suffer some consequences.
No matter what everyone else is doing, there are always serious consequences to be had when the lights come on and you happen to be the one caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
I don’t always agree with you but I do enjoy your posts and hope you have a blessed day Prim90
Problem is, have we seen any evidence these were actually Chinese balloons?
If not, I wonder how that rumor got started (besides their notorious history of spying and swiping secrets).
Dear crossnote
I don’t have source material in front of me but it is my understanding that the Chinese publicly acknowledged ownership of the first large balloon even before it was shot down. What they dispute is the nature and purpose of the device.
Before it was downed they even made an apology of sorts to the U.S. Since it was shot down their position has hardened they have protested our reactions as unreasonable and indicated they consider it their property and further, they want the remains returned.
As for the subsequent balloons, the last piece I read stated that the U.S. is not able, or is not willing, to name their origin as of this time.
YUP - OOPS !!
I suspect there are high altitude satellites that gather the same type of data, as well as human intelligence. It would appear to me that using a big white balloon is yesterday's technology.
Blue skies your reply be rather deep and branches out into many topics of thought.
Perhaps to deep to fully explore here. The hubris of man and nations does fill our libraries with their consequences that befall the children of pride who overstep their boundaries. Who come to close to the presence of the gods just as Icarus did fly to close to the sun. Perhaps all nations and empires eventually meet the same fate. The bygone eras of ancient Egypt the Grecian empire and Rome do look down upon us now and reflect the testimony of how the mighty have fallen over the eons. You do speak of the law There be much law to consider. International law. THE LAW OF THE LAND, THE LAW OF THE SEA..You speak of the consequences that China must accept. I do think upon the kangaroo court of the Nuremberg trials. Even they would have trouble keeping a straight face in trying to bring forth a conviction without malicious intent considering that the aggrieved complainant had ample time to stop the balloon from becoming a national security threat. As to don’t get caught. Some do say that be the first rule of law. As to the many clandestine operations carried out around the world and getting caught there certainly be consequences especially when it comes to the individuals caught red handed. But can a foreign government be brought to justice and held accountable on such matters? That seldom happens. Only if a act war is declared does it sometimes occur and the vanquished must concede. Blue skies We may not agree always as you said. And that is ok. I look forward to reading book you mentioned ( the hubris of men & nations ) by Louis Halle. I have ordered and look forward to more enlightenment from his reasoning. Prim
Last edited:
Good thought, although I wouldn’t consider the Nuremberg trials a ‘kangaroo court’.
You would if you were inclined to reject the USA and ALL the Allies. That comes from "Conspiracy" thinking.
Agreed. WHich begs the question.......Why do it?
I would say the USA knows exactly where they came from and even the very point of their launching!
I am sure they do. I've done some work with the US Southern Command and the Joint Interagency Task Force South (JIATF South) in Key West. If someone launches a canoe anywhere in the Caribbean, Gulf, or Southern Atlantic, or throws a dart, they know about it. I assume it is the same way on the other side.
Maybe they were weather balloons? The Gov has been silent on what they recovered.
Maybe. if it is, then why are spending Billions for satilites?
That is what I am saying!
This is more guesswork than knowledge but...
There is much an enemy can gain from a balloon that is not gained as easily from satellites which is why the weather service still uses balloons.
For example consider that the terminal guidance of a ballistic missile cannot rely on such things as gps ( which will be encrypted at the first hint of an exchange). Maps created from lower altitude but still high from our viewpoint will give a different perspective. Incoming missiles will compare what it 'sees' with these maps. Even with nuclear warheads a hardened site must not be 'missed'. Arial observation can also pinpoint defenses and note key reference points.
Analyzing emissions encountered by the balloon sensor packages can also help determine what to target.
All this does not mean balloon based Intel is decisive but it is something to take seriously.
--------
A d, yes we know where the wind has been blowing and can backtrack and determine where it came from.
Crossnote the thoughts be many. A kangaroo court be where the principles of law & justice are disregarded due to lack of good evidence or by dubious evidence . And where people are made to sign documents of confession under duress. Many were tortured having their testicular kicked & abused beyond repair. Others had hoods placed over their heads and were dragged out of their cells in the dead of night to terrorise them with mock firing squads. Others agreed upon being reminded of the safety concerns of their families. That be just a glimpse of what took place under the infamous Nuremberg trials and the reason they are considered a kangaroo court.