CA Gov signs Right to Die bill...

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ASUK said:
I went through a similar ordeal and had three kids involved so I know what it's like. I still don't see the comparison.
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Think of it this way....emotional pain can be just as painful as physical pain. Many people cut or self multilate due to needing to see a release of the pain. Because they have not been assured that the pain is the same, and just as real
 
Apologia said:
http://news.yahoo.com/california-governor-signs-hard-won-die-legislation-194359768--politics.html

Now this is an interesting concept; 'right to die'. Here again, in the United States you can do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt someone else. My question is, in the nonbeliever worldview, why limit this to terminally ill people? Why not expand it to anyone, healthy or not, for them to be allowed to 'humanly' kill themselves? It breaks my heart that people (and I'll venture to guess that people who have ended their lives in the 4 other states that permit 'right to die' have been self proclaimed 'Christians') feel as if there is no hope and/or lost or never had faith that Christ has already healed us, it's up to us to accept that healing. This whole idea of 'right to die' is quite frustrating. Whispers from the enemy seem to be becoming more prevalent nowadays.
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As i agree with what you said....it surely does open the door for the devil to do a lot more damage.
 
Cturtle said:
In my opinion and from what God has shown me in the Word....the choice to live or die and how long is in our hands in many ways. God has given thst authority via the tongue (life and death are in the power of the tongue.... Proverbs 18:21 and choose life or death Deut. 30:19-20)
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Absolutely. We have such power, but God ultimately has a plan for every human life...from beginning to end.
 
Euphemia said:
Absolutely. We have such power, but God ultimately has a plan for every human life...from beginning to end.
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Very true, but if we choose not to align our lives with that plan God cannot intervene because He put the authority in our hands. He can nudge us or prompt us (which He will do as long as possible)....but if we close our ears to the truth and to His voice eventually we cannot hear His promptings and what He wants no longer has any bearing on what we choose to do.
 
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Cturtle said:
Very true, but if we choose not to align our lives with that plan God cannot intervene because He put the authority in our hands. He can nudge us or prompt us (which He will do ad long as possible)....but if we close our ears to the truth snf to His voice eventually we cannot hear His promptings and what He wants no longer has any bearing on what we choose to do.
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Ultimately, He has our days numbered.
 
5Wolves said:
That's often the argument that is presented against PAS.
What does the scripture say about terminal illness and loss of dignity? If the body is the temple of God and we are the caretakers our life long, show me the scripture where God says that temple should be destroyed by pain and ravaged by disease until it gives out because it isn't strong enough to endure the ravaging anymore.


And that is your faith that tells you that. But thus far the Spirit has remained mute to that mission you presume he could send you on.

I've watched people die of terminal illness. Terminal meaning no thing in medical science can heal or cure what ails.
In the presence of an omnipresent all mighty God these suffering people are ravaged by their disease. Suffer excruciating pain, lose their dignity when they're put in diapers and finally administered liquid morphine so as to effect a slow death with a scheduled increase in dosage. This so as to not have that administration qualify as physician assisted suicide, largely because it is administered either by a care giver or Hospice nurse, but so as to affect the same thing. Physician assisted, via the vehicle of liquid morphine, death. Not natural death, but a liquid administration to that end.

Someone who is going to die unless God intervenes is worthy of deciding they want peace rather than suffering beyond what we can imagine. Just to make a point that their own dignity isn't as important as is dying like that while God watches.
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In my thoughts this is where wonderful people like you come in. God is pouring out His spirit and power upon the earth like never before. And as we are ready to pray and obey God, then He can work through us to fully heal someone who is terminally ill. There is a lady who is a nurse on another forum, where i sometimes go...that several times God has used her to pray over someone and they are healed.

As you are prepared by God to pray in faith for those whom you come in contact with...you can be making a difference. As you are listening to the Holy Spirit, then He can use you to be His hands and mouthpiece in this earth. The same spirit that was in Jesus is in you and when God shines and works through you then His healing power can do what nohing else can do. Just something to pray about
Blessings
 
CCW95A said:
Is it possible for God to use "physical death" as a means of delivering the "righteous man" from coming evil, and calamity in his life? To me this would not be my preferred method of leaving this earth, unless my work for the Lord had been finished, and there being no need for me to be here. The Lord knows all of our days, the end from the beginning. The Apostle Paul was willing to leave this earth, to be with the Lord which is far better than hanging out in his physical body with all its afflictions, and trials that come with it. He could not decide to either stay, or leave, but he finally chose to stay that the Church would be better off then leaving them. As a Christian we all have a win win situation, as to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Isa 57:1.. THE RIGHTEOUS man perishes, and no one lays it to heart; and merciful and devout men are taken away, with no one considering that the uncompromisingly upright and godly person is taken away from the calamity and evil to come [even through wickedness]. (AMP)

What about the elderly person who is dying, and experiencing pain through old age in which medical science has no answer, and or their faith is not at the point of believing for their healing. Can our faith produce new physical bodies, that can give us another 70-80 years? Who would want that? Not me!! Our physical bodies are not designed to last forever. There is a cut off point in which we will all experience at some time in our life's that desire to leave and be with the Lord, dropping off these bodies that have been corrupted by sin.

Most of the people that are in unconsciousness state do not have the ability to chose what they want, and so it falls upon their family to chose their fate.
There are not a lot of people who are well aware of their condition who see no hope for recovery or how to get away from their constant pain. I for one always chose life, and trust in the Lord for his intervention. Man has a free will choice to chose what route to take, and like almost all the time, man without the Spirit of God usually chooses wrong.
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I know you have experienced pain due to your mom's illness. And for that i can feel your pain.... But in this post it seems to me as if you are putting more weight in the disease instead of God's power and ability to go beyond medical science and heal those who are terminally ill.

I really have the utmost respect for you and i mean no disrespect, and am not intending to cause you more pain! I just am wondering if you have tried to find Scriptures to comfort you so as to explain why things went the way that they did with your mom. It sounds like she was a strong and godly woman, whom the devil afflicted with something that took her from this earth prior to her time.

Faith in God's ability to heal and stay true to His Word is only a part of what can renew the body. The other part is renewing the mind and spirit with God's Word, speaking the Word, and hearing. Many people who were diagnoised with terminal illness are still alive today because of the Word of God and its power to heal.

Please forgive me if i incorrectly stated anything or caused you more pain. I just believe that God wanted to give you some hings to think about

Blessings of grace and peace be yours in abundance
 
Grant Melville said:
I feel it's important for us to look at the incidents related in scripture in their context - if we look at Matthew 10, we see that here the Lord is sending the disciples out on what's often referred to as the "narrow commission" to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. We couldn't apply that to us, could we? The Lord had a particular commission for those particular twelve men, and they were given power which was to come out in a demonstration suited to that commission.
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Kind of like in Nehemiah's time and rebuilding the wall around Jerusalem. There was much to be done so they each did their part in front of them. Same with us. There are many "lost sheep" and if we can be where God has ordained for us to be and be about His business (whatever it is He is asking of us) then everything that God wants done will get done. And nothing will be undone. It's so important to be where we are supposed to be and doing what God has for us so that those whom God has destined to cross our path in a divine apointment, will be ministered to in the way that He has desired. If we don't obey then He has to prepare someone else and then we stand before Him in judgment for our lack of obedience.
 
Grant Melville said:
I can only speak from my own experience, but I wouldn't associate suffering with resisting fleshly desires and the things of the world. It might be difficult to give these things up, but the more I'm occupied with Christ, the less value those things seem to have. They become worthless to me, and I'm glad to give them up. Thanks be to God that some things which used to be so important to me, now I don't see any value in at all.

Paul certainly suffered. He was imprisoned, beaten and scourged. He suffered in his body, but it was nothing compared with what he was occupied with in terms of heavenly things. And in due time, he was given a measure of relief, the Philippian jailer took him and Silas and "washed them from their stripes" (Acts 16:33). What Paul went through for the testimony! What believers are enduring now by way of persecution... unspeakable things. Yet, they're sustained through it all.
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Let me ask you a question....was there anytime when if you were to give up those fleshly desires that it would have been very difficult? Maybe think of the believer who is doing things that they know is wrong before God, and it can be something like lying or even just getting angry. Those sins which so easily beset us. How difficult do you suppose it is for them to resist the temptation of the flesh? To them it is an area that they have not gotten under submission of the Word and can be excruciatingly difficult to resist. It may be easy for you because you have reached that point where your flesh is under control, and God's Word is more important..... but to them it could be as difficult as being beheaded for their faith in Jesus. What we have been freed from because of our obedience to the Word of God, is like being chained up or in prison. Because it still has them bound.

Different times and places govern the severity of the resistence.
 
Grant Melville said:
How could that possibly be, if the believer falls asleep in Christ, and is taken to be with the Lord? What a blessed release, no matter what the circumstances are! Paul could say "to die is gain" (Philippians 1:21). I believe that Paul was eventually beheaded, but the circumstances of his death wouldn't have altered his peaceful conviction that to go to be with Christ "is very much better" (Philippians 1:23).
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In my opinion each one of us has much to do and if we are taken prior to our time then those whom God had devinely apointed for us to interact with would possible parish, or live a life other than God intended, or desired. This life is not about us, its about being about the Father's business. And if we selfishly give up, then we cannot fulfill God's desired purpose.
 
Grant Melville said:
I don't think so, because God doesn't allow us to undergo testing without giving us the grace to bear it. He never allows us to be completely overwhelmed. He will always bring us through, and give us what we need to overcome.
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Grant you have to put yourself in God's shoes to understand this. He gave us brains. If we don't use them He has to step in / or let us suffer a bit (step in partially to learn a lesson).

It is His will that we live by faith and not by sight. Think about that. When God does a miracle / sign or wonder it causes us to walk by sight. Hence you / we have to grasp that God rather wants us to go to doctors / use our brains over Him doing anything miraculous.

If we havn't got the common sense to end a persons life before they swallow their tongue (like with the ebola), then God has to either 1. Step in 100% or 2. Step in partially. Now the saved do have this hope in God. I am not disputing that. But the unsaved, I am just not too sure how much God will help them.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this bill. It is evidence of rational thought / using impeccable logic. God is for us using our minds. Paul's teaching is '''full'' of us using our minds for judgment on all issues.

It is not the end of the world to pass the buck to God all the time. So I am not going to insult or mock anyone here opposing this bill. But we just have to understand that it is very likely simply evidence of being too '''faithy'' vs realistic. God is not against us being realistic!!!!! That is what is so frustrating to communicate with some members here :ROFLMAO:.

It is common sense to put a dog out of its misery if it is suffering and cannot be helped. It is the same with humans. God wouldn't have to miraculosuly step in if we used our God given brains. God prefers we use our brains. God can work with that more then the opposite.
 
Apologia said:
You're kidding right? Are we all not terminally ill because of the fall?
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No. Nobody was destined for hell because of the fall. Earth / out of Eden was death / the punishment for sin.

God has the brains to grasp that having sin does not eqaul loving it.
 
Grant Melville said:
That really puts our own responsibility quite out of the window, doesn't it? Should I continue in sin, that grace may abound? I can do things that are not the will of God, and He won't strike me down. It's a question of doing what is honouring to God, and leaving the matter of our life or death with Him alone is honouring to Him. That is His right, and we must respect the rights of divine Persons.
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What do you say to those who jumped out of the window in 9/11 to escape being burnt alive?
 
Grant Melville said:
Perhaps this is going off-topic a bit, but I think I would be doing a believer in the Lord Jesus a dreadful disservice if I brought them back to life. I would be taking them from where they were with the Lord Jesus, back to this world. I would be taking them away from something which is far better. If I could do it, I wouldn't.

Well, that's just my view.
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Now that is common sense :giggle: (y).
 
Euphemia said:
Amen. Believing Paul had some sort of malady is an excuse for unbelief in who God says He is---our Healer, abnd in the atonement which includes our healing.

1 Peter 2:24 (AMP)
He personally carried our sins in His body on the cross [willingly offering Himself on it, as on an altar of sacrifice], so that we might die to sin [becoming immune from the penalty and power of sin] and live for righteousness; for by His wounds you [who believe] have been healed.
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In 2 Corinthians 12:9, weakness clearly means bodily weakness - because it couldn't be said to be spiritual weakness or moral weakness with Paul. Paul was, of course, not perfect, but he was certainly marked by spiritual energy.

It's dangerous (to say the least) for us to pursue our own ideas and try to make scripture conform to them. We have to take scripture at what it plainly says, and let the word form our thoughts, not the other way round. In 1 Peter 2:24, the healing spoken of is moral and spiritual, not physical, otherwise every believer would be maintained in perfect physical health and fitness perpetually.
 
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Euphemia said:
Paul's thorn was persecution. He was jailed and also beaten to death at one point, but the Lord revived him. Of all the things he lists in his many sufferings, not one was sickness...which is because he knew how to appropriate his healing in the atonement.
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Yet persecution is not a weakness. Paul says, "Wherefore I take pleasure weaknesses, in insults, in necessities, in persecutions, in straits..." The thorn was a weakness, not persecution - and would persecution prevent Paul from being "exalted" (J.N.D.) or "becoming conceited" (NIV)?
 
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