In my experience, when people say "don't judge me", they are generally acknowledging that the person they are telling something to probably won't agree with their actions. And actually, when I have heard it, the person is asking for some sort of help in sorting something out. The Word isn't saying don't have opinions, nor ignore what is wrong or right - it's saying we all sin and are still redeemable. Like Rav is saying - if you are just trash talking someone down - condemning - what does that accomplish?
Can Christians Judge?
- Thread starter Trodaí Urnaí
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PeaceLikeaRiver
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OK, I found it, 1 Corinthians 5:5.
But if you read 1 Corinthians 5:3, it says: "For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this."
So the judging has already taken place.
You won the race!
Yes, Paul is saying he is there with them in spirit. That's what the highlighted part indicates. He is saying he need not be there to judge such actions.. But he is always there with them in spirit.. So they don't have to wait for Paul to come there and say its wrong..
One thing to note.. The verse and chapter I quoted is specific to Church body.. Paul does clearly say don't worry about outside world.. So it is important to remember that also..
That brings up a question.. Are we talking about judging outside world or judging people within the Church body?
No... There is an important use for BOTH constructive criticism AND dropping them into the fire....... Both for Church Members and Unbelievers....
Remember Jude 1:22-23....
Some people can respond to the quiet prodding and soft correction.... Others just never will - especially when WE believe WE are the righteous ones.....
Look at Jesus.... He had dinner with Tax collectors and Sinners... and then he declared Hellfire and the full measure of God's Eternal Wrath on the Ultra-Religious...... His goal was the SAME for both - Bring them into the Kingdom of God..... Notice the difference, though.... The Sinner had to understand that there was Grace - they WOULD NOT be cast out for Believing..... The Ultra-Religious relying on their own "Righteousness" must understand that THEY ARE ALREADY CAST OUT - that their own righteousness accounts for NOTHING in the eyes of God.....
Thanks
Just my 2 cents, oops, sorry, inflation, $1.98.
I thought scripture says that if you see a fellow believer sinning; with heart felt intentions confront this individual in private. If they don't listen, go and get another believer that has witnessed this sinning, and again with heart felt intentions, the two believers confront the other believer. If they still don't listen, leave them alone about the matter.
Yet, these believers that do the confronting are warned to do this in a tactful manner because they will be judged accordingly.
As far as the cast the first stone part of scripture - I think Messiah Jesus was warning those accusers to re-assess (snicker) themselves as if they were approaching the situation with the proper heart.
Also, I'm sorry I don't quote much scripture. I know a lot about what the bible says, but I have a hard time remembering exactly where it is.
Shalom.
I thought scripture says that if you see a fellow believer sinning; with heart felt intentions confront this individual in private. If they don't listen, go and get another believer that has witnessed this sinning, and again with heart felt intentions, the two believers confront the other believer. If they still don't listen, leave them alone about the matter.
Yet, these believers that do the confronting are warned to do this in a tactful manner because they will be judged accordingly.
As far as the cast the first stone part of scripture - I think Messiah Jesus was warning those accusers to re-assess (snicker) themselves as if they were approaching the situation with the proper heart.
Also, I'm sorry I don't quote much scripture. I know a lot about what the bible says, but I have a hard time remembering exactly where it is.
Shalom.
Casting the first stone is one of those scriptures that a lot of people twist. I think it comes down to this, if you have actually read the Mosiac laws you will know that there are not many of us who deserve NOT to be stoned (fornication anyone?) so for someone to stand up and accuse someone and throw the first stone shows an extremely hard hearted hypocrisy.
As it pertains to Paul, as I said before, he has a sort of no-nonsense style, so I think this is some practical advise. A lot of times we don't try to help someone who is living in sin, and that can be destructive, so I think he's giving some people practical advise for how to address a sinner without having the judgmental air of superiority about him. Like one poster said, judging out of condemnation instead of edification. Most people don't do it in an edifying way, so they end up failing. Someone who judges in an edifying way hardly ever gets a second thought, because it doesn't offend our conscience.
James 4:11-12
11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
Now, do I think judging a persons character and/or the truth within them is wrong? No. But do I think condemning and calling another evil for their sin is wrong? Yes.
We are to be doers of the law, not judges of it.
11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
Now, do I think judging a persons character and/or the truth within them is wrong? No. But do I think condemning and calling another evil for their sin is wrong? Yes.
We are to be doers of the law, not judges of it.
Judging someone isn't telling them they are going to hell. It is correcting them of things they are doing that doesn't stay in line with Gods Word.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
What if the person "correcting" is wrong? Christians disagree about the truth all the time, as I'm sure you have seen by now.
Off of the scripture I posted on this thread can you tell me which one is wrong?
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
I wasn't referring to you. There is, however, one person from this forum in particular - not naming names obviously, but it is not you - if he were to "correct" me I would seriously question him in practically every respect because I think he's learned a terrible perversion of Christianity, his scripture knowledge is fine but his misunderstandings of them are shocking and horrible. I do not wish to be "corrected" by people who use Christianity to hate and beat up others, that is obviously and intuitively wrong.
We are to give every person the love and knowledge of our Lord Jesus. Through him by the Holy Spirit they will find Truth. We cannot correct people if they don't even know Jesus.
I agree. My original post states this with scripture. We are to judge other Christians not non christians.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
But given all the warring Christian factions that we currently have, is this really so wise? What Christian is not going to take offense to a Christian of a different denomination telling him that his/her understanding is wrong?
Me too. I know what it says but forget where it is. lol
In all reality, besides a forum, where will this take place? Most likely this would happen within ones congregation or maybe even a group of believers in a bible study who come from different denominations. If I'm in the Church and I see a person claiming to be Christian and I know full well he is cheating on his wife it is my responsibility to advise him that he is in sin. If he continues then the church could get involved and possibly kick him out of church for not stopping. This is what scripture says.
Judging can be something other than telling them that they are going to hell, but telling someone they are going to hell is absolutely judging.
There are many scriptures that explicitly tell us not to judge Christians either. We've addressed this previously. It is not that we are allowed to judge Christians indiscriminately. We are permitted under certain circumstances to correct them, when it is done out of genuine concern. Never are we allowed to judge someone out of an air of superiority.
I agree wholeheartedly if the act is done in Love. If we have all things but not Love, we are nothing.
What I meant is we shouldn't tell people they are going to hell. That isn't what the scripture says to judge.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
I've seen a lot of YouTube videos in which people from different denominations are invited together to discuss certain matters and they end up fighting like cats and dogs and quoting scripture at one another like crazy. In concept I have no issue with what you're suggesting. It's only in reality where I'm wondering how much it would work.