Can Faith Alone Save?

Mike Posts: Straight from Jesus on how we should behave. Sorry but that is just the way it is. Jesus would not have spoken these words if they were not important for us to follow.

From Jesus to man to us - well, whatever. Don't be sorry - just for crying out loud, read me right. Canon did not exist before Constantine (300 AD) and he did not convert until he was on his deathbed as he wanted to continue to sin without roadblocks. And -- Oh, guess what, he wanted to use religion to manipulate the masses in his favor. What a surprise!! If you forego that Jesus whole philosophy is about love for his fellow man - then you got it wrong. If you think his sacrifice is the lightest of the tenets of Christiandom - than I gotta say you got it wrong. You brandish the banner when you state that belief that Christ is the son of God and died for our sins means nothing compared to well let's see - Paul said only get married if you can't resist the urge to have sex. Gee - I think that's important.
 
Salvation is free (in faith); all other blessings require sacrifice and obedience (following the law-the law reveals sin). A true faith produces fruit of some nature. Not everyone bears the same kind or quantity of fruit.

If we are walking in Christ's ways-the 'law' does not pertain if we are doing right. There is no law against 'kindness and humility'-against love. If we are loving like Christ loved-we are His children AND obeying the commandments. To love is to fulfill the law.

Unfortunately, we need to 'die daily'-repent of of sinful nature; remember we need God-Christ for salvation and to 'prune' us.
 
Mike Flanaganmenstein said:
Jesus gives us specific instructions on how we should behave. That is not from satan they are the words of Jesus Christ my friend.
Click to expand...
Mike,
Yes, Jesus did leave us with an entire Bible, full of books, instructing us on how to live. That, however, has not so much to do with how we are saved. The scripture is quite clear that if we believe on Jesus that we "will" be saved. There can, either, be nothing added to that or Jesus, is a liar. Now Jesus is God, the Son, and there is no evil in Him and He is therefore, not a liar.

I'm going to stir the pot here, again. The parable of the Wedding Feast (Matt. 22:1-14) is prefaced with the statement of verse one that this is a picture, a word illustration, of Heaven. So much hate and discontent is generated, in the Church, catholic, because of the failure to place all of the scripture into one context.

To understand this issue one must deal with the Bible, all the way from "In the beginning..." through the very last "Amen" of Rev. 22 into one context. You might follow the World by asking, "Are you really stupid enough to believe that," and if you do I'll need to refer you to John 1:1-3 to remember that there is nothing, no0t one, single, thing that has not been created by Jesus.

So it is that we must remember that there might be about forty men to have recorded the books of the Bible but there is only one author, Jesus, and He has had one purpose since before the Creation and that is to fellowship with man.

But I digress! In the parable (Matt. 22:1-14) we learn that not everyone that goes to Heaven will be members of the Bride of Christ. In fact the Guests, greatly, outnumber the Bride. So it is then that Salvation is not as selective as some are teaching from the Pulpit.

God bless.
 
O ye by grace through faith we are saved.It is a gift, but after having that faith do we stop there? Is there “alone” written?

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Examine the verse. Notice the word saved. Although I’m not good at english I understand it. It is written in past tense it’s with ED. So it happened already..we are saved now from Eph 2:1-3 Then..

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

many emphasize “Not of works” and say you don’t have to work for your salvation because Jesus did that. But what are these works?

It is the work that you may boast, work you do in yourself like Boast that Pharisees do But wwe have to work with God now. Continue in 10.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We have to work good works which we do with God that we cannot boast, for without him we can do nothing Jn.15:5
So it doesn’t stop there. So faith alone is not right term.and is not biblical.
 
Why you keep talking on the thief. It is very logic. God understand that he cannot do works that you want to see, he knows the heart and is very merciful. But you, us who are still breathing the air we must follow the gospel

I cor. 14:37- If anyman think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write to you are the commandments of God.

Because the gospel is the power of God unto our salvation. Roma 16:1

And even Paul said work out your own salvation with fear and trembling Phil 2:12 not “faith alone”

Also peter said ADD to your faith, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. See how can’t “faith alone” stand here. Bec if it is faith alone you are blind II pet. I:9 so it is a wrong term.
 
Silk said:
Rofl Bill - you always delight me. Believe and the rest will follow.
Click to expand...


Notice John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Take note those Jews already believed on Him but still commanded them to continue His words. If believing then the rest will follow he will say just believe but instead if ye continue in my word
 
Rusty said:
Like I said Reanne: the thief DID deeds: he rebuked the bad-mouthed thief, he said that Christ was innocent, and he asked for salvation....these are deeds, all one can do while nailed to a cross.
Click to expand...

yes, that's why I said Works that they want to see :D
 
Reanne said:
yes, that's why I said Works that they want to see :D
Click to expand...

Rusty--

What you fail to see is that his deeds did not lead to salvation----his salvation lead to the "deeds". He at first cursed Jesus along with the other thief. But he watched Jesus, and believed on Him. He was saved and said "LORD, remember me when you come into your Kingdom". His salvation RESULTED in him rebuking the other thief, humbling himself, and calling Jesus LORD. You have it backwards my friend. The thief was saved by faith, resulting in good deeds.
 
Mike Flanaganmenstein said:
Major we all sin and commit evil acts. Men on the battlefield as you referenced have sinned and you and I have sinned also. The Bible tells us that " For the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23 KJV. A sin is a sin in the eyes of the Lord. An I am not sure where you are getting "Extreme Circumstances" from. I never said that.
Click to expand...
 
Mike Flanaganmenstein said:
Major we all sin and commit evil acts. Men on the battlefield as you referenced have sinned and you and I have sinned also. The Bible tells us that " For the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23 KJV. A sin is a sin in the eyes of the Lord. An I am not sure where you are getting "Extreme Circumstances" from. I never said that.
Click to expand...

Agreed. We were not talking about all being sinners Mike whether on the battlefield or in our own backyard.

The examples I gave you were to show that there are in reality times where a person saved does not have the opportunity to do anything to be saved.

I was speaking to doing deeds/works/ things in order to be saved or to stay saved.

We are saved by Grace through faith plus nothing!

Then, when we are saved we should as proof of being saved have a desire to do those things that speak to our salvation.
 
Mike Flanaganmenstein said:
If you read the gospels Jesus tells us how we should act. That is a fact my friend. Where did I claim I was a better Christian? Please show me. I am simply mentioning what Jesus says. Let me Help you. Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets"

Matthew 5:39 KJV "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

Straight from Jesus on how we should behave. Sorry but that is just the way it is. Jesus would not have spoken these words if they were not important for us to follow.
Click to expand...

So then you are saying that we must keep the Law in order to be saved.

YES you are.

Quote......
"Please show me. I am simply mentioning what Jesus says. Let me Help you.
Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets"

Straight from Jesus on how we should behave."

One of the most dangerouse things that happens in Christianity is when a person has an agenda and is so focused on it that he will take out of context any Bible verse and apply that verse to his thinking without grasping the context of the verse.

You have used Matt. 7:12 which many refer to as the "Golden Rule". Mike, we are not saved by the Golden Rule or by doing anything that would lead to our salvation.

Matt. 7:12 the phrase "this is the law and the prophets" indicates that the statement made by Jesus is not unique but instead is a summarization of the second table of the law. Verse 12 is not intended to be a total summary of Jesus' teaching and in no way trys to explain the gospel.

An atheist could readily accept this statement in the context of everything that Jesus taught that we understand its true meaning. Rather than judge others we ought to pray for them because that it what the gospel is for.
 
Rusty said:
That is your assumption....As it is written first rebuking, second defense of Jesus, third a request for salvation....His deeds came first, then the Lord accepted Him. There is no evidence in the written Word that I can see in what you claim. He cursed yes, but HIS actions above came next....It is the same thing with the rich young prince, the calling of the Disciples...they had to act in faith and then God saw their trust in Him.

This in no way is "earning", rather it is a definitive mandatory act of turning. It is co-operative. Man must do his part and God will do His. He will force no one to come to Him.
Click to expand...

Rusty said............
"As it is written first rebuking, second defense of Jesus, third a request for salvation...."

Where is that written Rusty? I would like to read and study it, so please post the Bible verse for us. Thanks!

Then you said............
"His deeds came first, then the Lord accepted Him. "

Now that is exactly opposite of what the Scriptures say. This simply not brain surgery. It really is not as hard as it is being made out to be folks.

Ephesians 2:1
"And you hath he saved who were DEAD IN TRESPASSES AND SINS".

Romans 5:6
"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the UNGODLY".

Romans 3:23
"For ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

Ephesians 2:8
"For by Frace are you saved throught faith, AND NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the gift of God,
NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST".

IF we must do something or keep the law or "rebuke" someone we then by those actions are trying to make Bible verses fit what we want them to say. There is nothing in the Bible that says we must do or keep anything to be saved or to stay saved. Saving faith is humanities responce to God in the salvation experience. It is just as simple as it sounds and just as simple as is recorded in the Word of God........

Acts 16:30-31
"And brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved"
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and thy house".

While believing is simple, there are some for whom it is too simple and they find that difficult to accept, hence the opinion of ......"we must do something or obay something to be saved".

Something very important that I was taught a long time ago is that the in the Scriptures, the intensity of ones faith is not as important as its object. When we learn that and grasp it, we can then see that there is nothing whatsoever that we can do about our salvation except to believe it!
 
Rusty said:
The Ten Commandments are not an option.
A saved person will keep them if they allow God to work through them, but if they do not....how can they remain "keepers" or "lovers of God"?

Can a saved person continue to lie, cheat, curse God, abuse his parents, murder, steal, abuse God's name, sleep around and be perfectly safe on the gravy train to heaven?
Really?
Now we all know many Christians think they are immune from any any sort of loss if they say the Sinner's prayer....but...
Jesus spoke the Commandments to Moses; they were not Moses's idea for a short term stop gap plan before the Cross. What was nailed to the Cross was man's cry "These things we will do!" But they cannot without the new heart, as history shows.
Click to expand...

Of course then the answer would be that the person/persons you are using as an example were never saved to begin with Rusty.

1 John 2:19
"They went out from us but they were never part of us for if they had been of us they would no doubt have continued with us
but they went out that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us".

Simply said......those who say that they are saved are not actually saved.

IF they continue in their sin, that Rusty is proof that they never repented in the first place.
 
Rusty said:
Right here (and I have posted it twice before....it would be good if you read my posts!)



1. a rebuking a slanderer of Christ...an act, deed
2. a defensive of Christ's innocence...an act, deed
3. a petition for salvation...an act, deed as strong as you or I did when we came to Him in contrition

These Jesus saw as a conversion of his heart or He would not have said he would be with Him.

Take a look...I've spelt this out before...slow down and read, please.
Click to expand...

You said.........
"Take a look...I've spelt this out before...slow down and read, please".

That is an un-called for comment on your part. There is no reason to think such a thing much less to post it.

Because I do not agree with some of your posts does not mean I did not read them Rusty.
That is an assumption on your part and you do that a lot.

So then, back to the question at hand: what you said ......"
"As it is written first rebuking, second defense of Jesus, third a request for salvation...."

What you said Is not written in the Scriptures and is not Biblical doctrine but instead is your opinion and that is exactly what I already knew.

YOU writing it....even twice my friend does not make it truth. It is still you opinion not Biblical truth and that is where we differ.
 
Mike Flanaganmenstein said:
Major we all sin and commit evil acts. Men on the battlefield as you referenced have sinned and you and I have sinned also. The Bible tells us that " For the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23 KJV. A sin is a sin in the eyes of the Lord. An I am not sure where you are getting "Extreme Circumstances" from. I never said that.
Click to expand...

You are correct. You said ......."extenuating circumstance".

My apologies, but the results are still the same me thinks.
 
Reanne said:
O ye by grace through faith we are saved.It is a gift, but after having that faith do we stop there? Is there “alone” written?

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Examine the verse. Notice the word saved. Although I’m not good at english I understand it. It is written in past tense it’s with ED. So it happened already..we are saved now from Eph 2:1-3 Then..

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

many emphasize “Not of works” and say you don’t have to work for your salvation because Jesus did that. But what are these works?

It is the work that you may boast, work you do in yourself like Boast that Pharisees do But wwe have to work with God now. Continue in 10.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We have to work good works which we do with God that we cannot boast, for without him we can do nothing Jn.15:5
So it doesn’t stop there. So faith alone is not right term.and is not biblical.
Click to expand...

I accept your challenge..........."Examine the verse"!

The grace spoken of in verse 8 actually is the "Quickened" in verse #5. When reading the comments on this thread I see something that is coming out time and time again from many people who ought to know better.
Grace is what God does for man, not what man does for God or for himself.

BUT, if we think we have to do deeds (rebuke ?) or good works that is exactly what we are saying. We are then BOASTING
on what we did which is exactly what Ephesisan 2: 9 says we should not do.

Rusty encouraged me to read his posts (which I do) so my encouragement is for all of us to read the Scriptures and see what they tell us NOT what we want them to say.

Salvation is God's greatest gift and man's greatest need. The Greek "perfect tense" in this verse denotes the certainty of this God given salvation.

We have been saved in the past----we are just as thoroughly saved in the present! We have then a perfect salvation, God gives we receive.

AS we "examine" this verse more we then can see that Grace is God's provision and FAITH is mans appropriation.

Faith is NOT an act of merit but instead is an indispensable channel through which man receives God's gift.

That fact alone rejects the idea that one can "rebuke" someone and count it as an act of faith.

Notice the words......"AND THAT". The word THAT in the Greek is neuter and does not refer to "faith", but to the act of being saved by grace on God's part and conditioned on faith on man's part.

Well, enough of this round and round argument.

IF you want to believe that you must do something or say something or rebuke someone in order to be saved...........
God bless you and I hope you do well in life.

As for me, I will simply believe what the Scriptures clearly teach........."Believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved".

I did that and stand on the promises of God.

Major out.............
 
Rusty said:
You asked where it was written and even quote me where it was written,. They are there in my post #17 and #29....so that is no "assumption" on my part but a redirection to my posts....Chill out..You asked I delivered three times. You called for the evidence so how is that "uncalled for"...I will say again....please slow down and read what I posted. That will keep you from making requests for things from me that I have already made. And if I think you are not carefully reading what I have posted, what sort of Christian would I be if the evidence to me looks very much like you are not?
Click to expand...

Your first comment made it "appear" that what you said was in some way a Bible doctinal truth.

"As it is written first rebuking, second defense of Jesus, third a request for salvation...."

Now I see that you did not say that but it was to me implied that somewhere it was written down.

I now by your admission understand that it is something that you wrote down.

Edited per rule 2.1
 
Rusty said:
The Ten Commandments are not an option.
A saved person will keep them if they allow God to work through them, but if they do not....how can they remain "keepers" or "lovers of God"?

Can a saved person continue to lie, cheat, curse God, abuse his parents, murder, steal, abuse God's name, sleep around and be perfectly safe on the gravy train to heaven?
Really?
Now we all know many Christians think they are immune from any any sort of loss if they say the Sinner's prayer....but...
Jesus spoke the Commandments to Moses; they were not Moses's idea for a short term stop gap plan before the Cross. What was nailed to the Cross was man's cry "These things we will do!" But they cannot without the new heart, as history shows.
Click to expand...

I John 3:9 tells us that anyone who is born again does not continue to practice sin. The person may commit acts of sin from time to time, but does not wallow in sin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top