Can Faith Alone Save?

[Brother_Mike_V]

I think that's just it Glomung; many "claim" the faith and do nothing with it- so the question is are they 'saved'?

If you say yes-then we have to talk about the possibility of losing their salvation. Would God take away the gift?

If you say no- then we have to talk about the big pink elephant in the room about what is false doctrine/ false religion/ false faith/ hypocrisy.

'for they honor me with their mouths but their hearts are far from me' God-Christ

 

[Silk]

I have to say, and mean no offense to anyone posting - But thank you God for making Christ the Gardener.
As for - you shall know them by their fruits - strangely, I concur. Because I think love of God produces many strange and wonderful fruit. I may be allergic to some of that fruit, so I accept it is not for me. I do not judge he who is producing the fruit and I think that is what God wants me to do. Not judge. All fruit comes about naturally, does it not? If the fruit is poison to all, well - God has a purpose for all of it, but maybe you should not eat of it. Maybe it is a medicine for a cure.
As for the Talents - could it be that God's grace is offered and the one talent wonder rejected the gift? Just saying.

 

[Fish153]

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he SAVED us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He SAVED us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:5-7)

Please note the past tense in the above verses. Also notice this salvation does not come through "deeds" we have done----but solely through GOD'S MERCY. Salvation is something we receive once for ever, and it is completely through the mercy and grace of God alone.

 

[Brother_Mike_V]

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he SAVED us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He SAVED us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:5-7)

Please note the past tense in the above verses. Also notice this salvation does not come through "deeds" we have done----but solely through GOD'S MERCY. Salvation is something we receive once for ever, and it is completely through the mercy and grace of God alone.

Correct; but each person has to make the choice to ACCEPT that salvation by faith. Many will REJECT Christ. I think that is pretty obvious.....

 

[Reanne]

Major,

First of all I’d like to thank you for your time.

What I believe is this. John 7:17 If anyman will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself

I’m referring to two works being modified here. First the works we do alone, that we may boast, second the works we do with God after having faith after we are saved from our transgressions etc.

Why did you write: IF you want to believe that you must do something or say something or rebuke someone in order to be saved...........
God bless you and I hope you do well in life.

Why? do not you believe in the Bible.
Paul said :Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling Phil 2:12
There are works that God prepared for us and it is different from work we do before on our own.
BECAUSE now we become his workmanships Eph. 2:10, we are His laborer
BECAUSE without Him we can do nothing Jn. 15:5

 

[Reanne]

That’s why you will not find “faith alone” in the scriptures bec. The apostles of Christ do not teach people to have faith alone.
In fact You know what Peter says to those who have FAITH ALONE

II Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

So If you believe by faith alone you are saved I can say you are blind.
faith alone is not a right term and is not biblical.
God bless!
Sincerely in Christ ,
Reanne

 

[KingJ]

I think there is alot of overlapping and false assumptions about each other here .

I like DRS suggestion in post # 85. If we answered these we would all be in agree 99% agreement. Unlike other sites out there, I think we are mostly like minded !

What is salvation; why do we need it?
Can salvation be lost?
Is there proof of salvation?
Who can judge salvation?
What is God's Grace?
What is "faith"?

 

[Major]

Would it not be fair to say that our salvation relies on our 'heart condition'; dependent upon our personal faith since the Lord made a way for ALL to be saved?

Is it not our choice whether or not we follow God? I agree that salvation is free - to those who will accept the gift of Christ. If our hearts be for God-would it not show in some way to the world?

I agree that our 'works' can not save us- but there should be 'evidence'/ 'fruit' that we are followers of Christ. It is inevitable if we are walking in His ways. Christ should be pouring out of us from somewhere if He is in us right?

Actually we are in agreement Dirty. I agree with everything you just posted.

 

[Major]

Major,

First of all I’d like to thank you for your time.

What I believe is this. John 7:17 If anyman will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself

I’m referring to two works being modified here. First the works we do alone, that we may boast, second the works we do with God after having faith after we are saved from our transgressions etc.

Why did you write: IF you want to believe that you must do something or say something or rebuke someone in order to be saved...........
God bless you and I hope you do well in life.

Why? do not you believe in the Bible.
Paul said :Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling Phil 2:12
There are works that God prepared for us and it is different from work we do before on our own.
BECAUSE now we become his workmanships Eph. 2:10, we are His laborer
BECAUSE without Him we can do nothing Jn. 15:5

You are welcome, being an old man, I have lots of time (sorta).

I also believe John 7:17 but what you are missing is that the verse from Jesus is the His teaching that obedience will help to determine true doctrine. Unfortunitaly most people seek to reverse that order. They want to know more than is needed to know before they act.

Now, the reason I said.........

IF you want to believe that you must do something or say something or rebuke someone in order to be saved...........God bless you and I hope you do well in life.

I thought that was obviouse. I simply do not think that a round and round conversation gains anything at all. You are as convinced in what you are saying as I am in what I am saying and since that is the case Imy intentions are that I am not going to argue over what is not going to change. In that case I really do ask God to bless you and just as I stated, I hope you do well in life. That was intended to be an encouragement and a blessing and it seems you took it in the wrong way.

Now as for Philippians 2:12 that posted apparently to furter try and stablize your thesis of works being necessary, and I mean not disrespect but again, that is an example of not knowning the meaning of Scriptures and pullinmg them out of context to support something you have made up your mind to believe.

Allow me to explain. Philippians 2:12 that you used says........"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling".

That does not mean that you need to or should WORK for your salvation in order to obtain it. The Greek phrase "WORK OUT" here denotes the expression, manifestation or actualiztion of something one already possesses. Paul is encouraging the Philippians to "work out" the salvation God has already included them in (verse 13), carrying it to its logical end.

God granted them salvation not just for their own profit but for the good of others as well. If they work out and manifest the new life that God has worked in them, they will then live lives worthy of the Gospel.

In doing that they will work out or "express" to all those around them the new life they have been given in Christ.

How do we know a person is actually saved Reanne?????

By observation of a changed life.

Works to not save us. Works do not keep us saved. But once we are saved, we as a follower of Christ will want to do those things which are pleasing to Christ.

Bless you again!

 

[Major]

That’s why you will not find “faith alone” in the scriptures bec. The apostles of Christ do not teach people to have faith alone.
In fact You know what Peter says to those who have FAITH ALONE

II Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

So If you believe by faith alone you are saved I can say you are blind.
faith alone is not a right term and is not biblical.
God bless!
Sincerely in Christ ,
Reanne

Reanne.........we can not find TRINITY in the Bible either.
We can not find RAPTURE in the Bible.

But as for "faith alone". We can see clearly that it comes under the doctrine teaching of "Implied Truth" by contrast.

Rom. 3:28-30,
"For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."

Rom. 4:5,
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Rom. 5:1,
"therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"

Rom. 9:30,
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."

Rom. 10:4,
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 11:6,
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:16,
"nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21,
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Gal. 3:5-6,
"Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:24,
"Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 2:8-9,
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, lest any man should boast."

Phil. 3:9,
"and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

We can go on and on but I say again, works/Lawis contrasted with faith repeatedly and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith, not by faith and our works; hence, faith alone.

Reanne, calling me blind does nothing for your understanding. Yes I wear glasses but that is not the point is it.

Now am I blind because I believe those posted Scriptures or are you for NOT believing them. I suggest that we do not go down that dirty road because it harms everyone my dear.

 

[Fish153]

That’s why you will not find “faith alone” in the scriptures bec. The apostles of Christ do not teach people to have faith alone.
In fact You know what Peter says to those who have FAITH ALONE

II Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

So If you believe by faith alone you are saved I can say you are blind.
faith alone is not a right term and is not biblical.
God bless!
Sincerely in Christ ,
Reanne

It's interesting that you use 2 Pet. 1:9:
"For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he WAS CLEANSED from his former sins". (2 Pet. 1:9)

Or, as it says in the KJV "was purged from his former sins". It speaks of "sins" in the past tense. It is speaking of a back-slidden Christian, who was purged from his sins, but who has slowly slipped into a state of blindness--forgetting that he was forgiven for the very sins he has fallen into. Salvation is totally of Grace---it is a gift of God. Yet, it is possible for a child of God (a born-again believer) to backslide into their former ways and "forget" that they "WERE CLEANSED" (past tense) of their former sins. This shows us that salvation is a one-time event---something we receive, and it applies to us forever. We cannot work for salvation---or think that our good deeds are adding up so that one day God approves of us. That will never happen---none of us is worthy--or can make ourselves worthy of salvation.

 

[Major]

It's interesting that you use 2 Pet. 1:9:
"For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he WAS CLEANSED from his former sins". (2 Pet. 1:9)

Or, as it says in the KJV "was purged from his former sins". It speaks of "sins" in the past tense. It is speaking of a back-slidden Christian, who was purged from his sins, but who has slowly slipped into a state of blindness--forgetting that he was forgiven for the very sins he has fallen into. Salvation is totally of Grace---it is a gift of God. Yet, it is possible for a child of God (a born-again believer) to backslide into their former ways and "forget" that they "WERE CLEANSED" (past tense) of their former sins. This shows us that salvation is a one-time event---something we receive, and it applies to us forever. We cannot work for salvation---or think that our good deeds are adding up so that one day God approves of us. That will never happen---none of us is worthy--or can make ourselves worthy of salvation.

Amen 153!

 

[Reanne]

Salvation is from His grace, I agreed. But I was referring to the word “alone” that by faith alone we are saved. Bec. After having faith we do not stop there, it is not alone, what is next is we will going to work out our own salvation Phil 2:12

How? It is not the work we do on our own, because we are now working with God. We work now what he commanded us to work. And we do not work on our own. Bec. We only produce good works with His help. For without Him we can do nothing

Jn. 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Now we work with God. This is what I’m saying.

 

[Reanne]

It's interesting that you use 2 Pet. 1:9:
"For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he WAS CLEANSED from his former sins". (2 Pet. 1:9)

Or, as it says in the KJV "was purged from his former sins". It speaks of "sins" in the past tense. It is speaking of a back-slidden Christian, who was purged from his sins, but who has slowly slipped into a state of blindness--forgetting that he was forgiven for the very sins he has fallen into. Salvation is totally of Grace---it is a gift of God. Yet, it is possible for a child of God (a born-again believer) to backslide into their former ways and "forget" that they "WERE CLEANSED" (past tense) of their former sins. This shows us that salvation is a one-time event---something we receive, and it applies to us forever. We cannot work for salvation---or think that our good deeds are adding up so that one day God approves of us. That will never happen---none of us is worthy--or can make ourselves worthy of salvation.

O? Let’s start in verse 5

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

Notice ? ADD, How do you understand ADD? In arithmetic, there are addition,subtraction, etc. now we use addition. See HOW faith “alone” cannot stand here. ADD to your faith meaning not alone.

Then…

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Then..

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
So we are going to use subtraction here.
MINUS verses. 5,6,7 You are blind.
See? Or not?

 

[Fish153]

O? Let’s start in verse 5

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

Notice ? ADD, How do you understand ADD? In arithmetic, there are addition,subtraction, etc. now we use addition. See HOW faith “alone” cannot stand here. ADD to your faith meaning not alone.

Then…

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Then..

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
So we are going to use subtraction here.
MINUS verses. 5,6,7 You are blind.
See? Or not?

I understand what you are stating. If we do not remain diligent, we are not moving forward. If we are not moving forward there is a danger of sliding back. It is not talking about losing salvation---but losing one's vision. The person lacks because they have allowed themselves to be distracted. They were not saved by good deeds and they will not be lost by bad deeds. They are losing out on rewards as a Christian, but their salvation is a free gift of God.

God has said "he that has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus" (Phil. 1:6) God never begins anything he doesn't complete. if we slip and fall---he will chasten us, pick us up, and lead us back to Himself. The very reason we will throw our crowns at His feet one day is because we really didn't "earn" the crowns we receive---it was all of Grace---therefore, even the crowns belong at the feet of Jesus Christ.

 

[Reanne]

When you are blind. Bec. You lack those things this also mean your faith is dead bec Faith without work is dead. So how can your dead faith save you? It’s also something with our salvation..

They were saved by grace, nothing to argue. And now we work with God df. From work we do alone... again.

 

[Brother_Mike_V]

I am not sure how to put into words what I am thinking.....

I think I understand your point, maybe we should examine 'dead faith' as being 'false faith'? Now I am not one to be judging a person's salvation-that is betwixt you and the Lord. So please don't anyone take it that way.

Much of Christ's rebuttal against the Jews was about their false faith-I mean Jesus called them children of the "devil" while in the temple! Pretty strong stuff against the religious authority and the 'faithful followers'. John 8

Faith in Christ (which includes following His commandments John 14:15, Matthew 22:36-40, John 13:34-35) is all you need-His Grace-His Works give us salvation. Not anything that we can do. 1 John 2:2, 1 Peter 2:24

1 Timothy 2:1-6
2 Peter 3:9
Acts 10:34-35
John 3:16
Matthew 28:18-20
Mark 16:15-16
Revelation 22:17

Think about the key figures in the Bible like David, Solomon, King Saul, Adam & Eve, Moses, etc.....They ALL fell. That doesn't mean they lost their salvation.....

 

[Silk]

Fish Posts They were not saved by good deeds and they will not be lost by bad deeds. They are losing out on rewards as a Christian, but their salvation is a free gift of God.

The same can be said of God's love for all of us. He does not love me more than you, or less. He loves everyone, unconditionally. You can neither earn nor lose his love. This should be a joy to all of us sinners. But hey, we can always disappoint him.

 

[Major]

Salvation is from His grace, I agreed. But I was referring to the word “alone” that by faith alone we are saved. Bec. After having faith we do not stop there, it is not alone, what is next is we will going to work out our own salvation Phil 2:12

How? It is not the work we do on our own, because we are now working with God. We work now what he commanded us to work. And we do not work on our own. Bec. We only produce good works with His help. For without Him we can do nothing

Jn. 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Now we work with God. This is what I’m saying.

If God has saved you then you are saved by FAITH AND NOTHING ELSE.
Faith leads to works not the other way around and never in conjunction. It is always faith, saving faith and not works.

Dr. J. Calvin once said............."Faith ALONE saves, but the faith that saves is not alone".

Philippians 2:12 is NOT referring to saving salvation but the act of taking care of the problems that come up in all of our lives. Work out....follow through....get it done all speak to the same thought and does not refer to working to improve or magnify our salvation.

John 15:5 is Jesus actually confirming what I have said my dear. WE have no ability or sufficiency in us that produces a fruit bearing believer. We are in fact unworthy and insufficient and we need to admitt we can do nothing without Christ!!!!
It is then by our FAITH in Christ that through His ability, His power, His sufficiency that we can do anything at all.

We are totally dependant on Christ as we see Him say "Without me ye can do nothing".

Our fruitbearing, our works are generated by Him and through Him and without FAITH in Christ we would be doing nothing. The vine provides life, power, and the ability to produce fruit. The born again believer is connected to the true vine by FAITH to the Lord Jesus Christ and it is only through His power that we are enabled to produce works/fruit!

 

[Major]

Fish Posts They were not saved by good deeds and they will not be lost by bad deeds. They are losing out on rewards as a Christian, but their salvation is a free gift of God.

The same can be said of God's love for all of us. He does not love me more than you, or less. He loves everyone, unconditionally. You can neither earn nor lose his love. This should be a joy to all of us sinners. But hey, we can always disappoint him.

Correct.

I am not sure about the "He does not love me more than you" thing though.

I am a lot bigger than you so there is more to love!!!