Can't Eat Anything And Just Pray Over It.

JohnC said:
YES... God truly did give the Law to Moses.... It was given 1 letter at a time... It IS holy!
We also have to remember that Jesus himself declared that the Law is not DONE yet....
and that the Lawless would never inherit HIS Kingdom!

Over and over throughout the last 2,000 years - Man has been saved by provisions in the Jewish Law... Plagues were STOPPED when we followed the requirements for Washing and Purification..... Diseases were stopped when we followed the LAW and stopped being sexually promiscuous..... Parasites and internal worms were stopped when we followed the LAW - and stopped eating Unclean food before we knew about "Food safety"..... Medical procedures were made safe when we followed the provisions for Priestly washing.....

The LAW is not done yet either.... Wanna bet that the solution in the future to decontaminating after some gigantic Nuclear war or stopping some gigantic NEW plague will be miraculously found in the Law.... just like every other time.....

BUT... Purity of the physical body is NOT purity of the Soul before God....

You are NOT made Righteous before God in the Spiritual sense by following the 613 Mitzvot....
This is NOT a New Testament idea either....
Look at Isaiah 6:5-7
I am a man of Unclean lips that dwells among Unclean people....
God's angel took the coal out of the fire and struck his lips - and he was cleansed SPIRITUALLY....
His physical body was not purified... His SOUL was purified!

Look at Habakuk 2:4
Behold the Proud, His Soul is not upright within him...
BUT The Just shall live by his Faith!

Look at Elijah eating the food (trash) brought to him by the Ravens (Unclean bird) in a Gentile country (Unclean place) - 1st kings 17...... He was UNCLEAN by the Law - you can't eat roadkill and Trash collected by unclean birds in an unclean country and dropped in the dirt - and maintain Levitical Purity.... Yet he was Righteous before God!

It's just EXPLAINED and codified in the New Testament...
That OBEDIENCE to God trumps EVERYTHING else..... That Freedom in Christ allows us to minister to people who could NEVER be ministered to by those following the "Law"...... A Jewish priest cannot Minister to someone who HAS leperosy because that Leprosy may make HIM unclean.... A priest involved with Temple service CANNOT enter the home of a dead man - because he is made unclean for temple service..... A practicing Orthodox Jew cannot eat at the home of a Gentile - because their food may have been offered to Idols....

Luke 10:30-37 - The "Good Samaritan"..... The Levite and the Priest could NOT minister to the Wounded man - the contact with blood would make THEM unclean! They did not KNOW whether he was a Gentile Idolater or a Jew - so that would make them Unclean... He may DIE in their presence - which would make them Unclean.... They COULD NOT DO the good deed because it would make them Law Breakers!

This is why we Beg God "Write your LAW on our Hearts" - but we do not explicitly follow the Law in search of Righteousness....

Thanks
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Mark 7:15 There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him
 
Dave Lucas said:
Mark 7:15 There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him
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Amen. If your conscience tells you not to eat something, and you eat it anyways, then it is sin. But if our heart condemns us not, we are free to eat whatever God provides.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
Amen. If your conscience tells you not to eat something, and you eat it anyways, then it is sin. But if our heart condemns us not, we are free to eat whatever God provides.
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Well I like to think when God made the world in Genesis he said after all the creations that it was good for a reason.
 
Dave Lucas said:
Well I like to think when God made the world in Genesis he said after all the creations that it was good for a reason.
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Well you must remember God did not intend for us to eat animals, but in Genesis 1:29-30 he said

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

It wasn't until after the flood God declared in Genesis 9:33

3 "Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

Notice how he says EVERYTHING.

Now if you were a Jew under the covenant of God, then to please God you would abstain from certain foods. But we do not have to keep those laws to please him. The law Christ gave was that we Love God and eachother.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
Well you must remember God did not intend for us to eat animals, but in Genesis 1:29-30 he said

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

It wasn't until after the flood God declared in Genesis 9:33

3 "Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

Notice how he says EVERYTHING.

Now if you were a Jew under the covenant of God, then to please God you would abstain from certain foods. But we do not have to keep those laws to please him. The law Christ gave was that we Love God and eachother.
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And the Jews neither have to abstain either for The King, God said it was alright to eat.

It does not defile you.
 
JohnC said:
YES... God truly did give the Law to Moses.... It was given 1 letter at a time... It IS holy!
We also have to remember that Jesus himself declared that the Law is not DONE yet....
and that the Lawless would never inherit HIS Kingdom!

Over and over throughout the last 2,000 years - Man has been saved by provisions in the Jewish Law... Plagues were STOPPED when we followed the requirements for Washing and Purification..... Diseases were stopped when we followed the LAW and stopped being sexually promiscuous..... Parasites and internal worms were stopped when we followed the LAW - and stopped eating Unclean food before we knew about "Food safety"..... Medical procedures were made safe when we followed the provisions for Priestly washing.....

The LAW is not done yet either.... Wanna bet that the solution in the future to decontaminating after some gigantic Nuclear war or stopping some gigantic NEW plague will be miraculously found in the Law.... just like every other time.....

BUT... Purity of the physical body is NOT purity of the Soul before God....

You are NOT made Righteous before God in the Spiritual sense by following the 613 Mitzvot....
This is NOT a New Testament idea either....
Look at Isaiah 6:5-7
I am a man of Unclean lips that dwells among Unclean people....
God's angel took the coal out of the fire and struck his lips - and he was cleansed SPIRITUALLY....
His physical body was not purified... His SOUL was purified!

Look at Habakuk 2:4
Behold the Proud, His Soul is not upright within him...
BUT The Just shall live by his Faith!

Look at Elijah eating the food (trash) brought to him by the Ravens (Unclean bird) in a Gentile country (Unclean place) - 1st kings 17...... He was UNCLEAN by the Law - you can't eat roadkill and Trash collected by unclean birds in an unclean country and dropped in the dirt - and maintain Levitical Purity.... Yet he was Righteous before God!

It's just EXPLAINED and codified in the New Testament...
That OBEDIENCE to God trumps EVERYTHING else..... That Freedom in Christ allows us to minister to people who could NEVER be ministered to by those following the "Law"...... A Jewish priest cannot Minister to someone who HAS leperosy because that Leprosy may make HIM unclean.... A priest involved with Temple service CANNOT enter the home of a dead man - because he is made unclean for temple service..... A practicing Orthodox Jew cannot eat at the home of a Gentile - because their food may have been offered to Idols....

Luke 10:30-37 - The "Good Samaritan"..... The Levite and the Priest could NOT minister to the Wounded man - the contact with blood would make THEM unclean! They did not KNOW whether he was a Gentile Idolater or a Jew - so that would make them Unclean... He may DIE in their presence - which would make them Unclean.... They COULD NOT DO the good deed because it would make them Law Breakers!

This is why we Beg God "Write your LAW on our Hearts" - but we do not explicitly follow the Law in search of Righteousness....

Thanks
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"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." (Romans 7:12) This verse is evidently overlooked by all those who attempt to degenerate and do away with God's law. If the Bible tells us to live holy, and it does, there must be some basis by which we can achieve this goal. Living by God's law is it. Yet many who misunderstand Paul's writings (II Peter 3:15,16) have thought to discard the holy law. Paul himself did not dismiss the law. In many instances he let us know that Jesus died to get us from under the wages (penalty) of breaking the law. He further teaches that the animal sacrifices didn't take away sins. (Hebrews 10) The wages of sin is death, and sin is breaking the law (read I John 3:4). Therefore, Jesus was sacrificed to give us another chance at life. This doesn't remove our responsibility to obey God's law. It is the mark to achieve which we all have fallen short of. If we believe in Jesus we are called to repent from our sins (from breaking the law), get baptized and strive for the high calling. "... Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." (Romans 12:1)
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
What are you trying to do here Bro.tan?

If indeed people here are believers of the Lord Jesus then let them discern if they are to keep the sabbath or not. It is not your job to come on here and entertain the idea that keeping the sabbath is an requirement of salvation, or even a fruit of it.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
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Amazing that you quote Colossians 2:16-17, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ


How can a Sunday person quote that verse, who keeps no laws nor the Sabbath day, which is on the seventh day of the week, nor Holy High days which refers to the new moon? Sunday people has nothing to do with that verse, that verse is for people like me, who do all those things with belongs to Jesus Christ. Now you can stroll up to verse 8...now that verse may fits you well... Lets read it...2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Yep, like Easter, which is coming up, Sunday worship, Christmas, etc. Got nothing to do with Christ.
 
Bro.tan said:
Amazing that you quote Colossians 2:16-17, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ


How can a Sunday person quote that verse, who keeps no laws nor the Sabbath day, which is on the seventh day of the week, nor Holy High days which refers to the new moon? Sunday people has nothing to do with that verse, that verse is for people like me, who do all those things with belongs to Jesus Christ. Now you can stroll up to verse 8...now that verse may fits you well... Lets read it...2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Yep, like Easter, which is coming up, Sunday worship, Christmas, etc. Got nothing to do with Christ.
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Yup! So how you doin keeping the whole of the law Bro Tan? Break even a jot or tittle and you have broken it all....you have sin in your life...so because you live under the law you are condemned. Now fall on your face and trust in the grace of God and be saved. Put that wonderful faith to good use so your sins will be remissed!
 
So... @Bro.tan

Can you develop your point a bit better regarding "You can't just pray over it and eat it"..... My opinions is that there is truth in that statement... but it's NOT a holiness statement....

For example.... it IS true that you cannot JUST pray over Raw brucellosis infected pork straight off the pig and eat it and expect to be OK..... This falls straight into the category of "Temp God".... But... this is a Medical statement - not a statement that demonstrates your Holiness or lack thereof before God....

I equate it to You can't just pray and step off a Cliff and expect to be OK... God invented Gravity... It's a physical the LAW.. Violating it may kill you.. but "Violating" the law of Gravity doesn't make you UNHOLY before God.... it just makes you dead...

So....
What is your interpretation of "The Lawful use of the Law"....
 
Brother Paul said:
Yup! So how you doin keeping the whole of the law Bro Tan? Break even a jot or tittle and you have broken it all....you have sin in your life...so because you live under the law you are condemned. Now fall on your face and trust in the grace of God and be saved. Put that wonderful faith to good use so your sins will be remissed!
Click to expand...

It’s easy for people to say how much they love the Lord, they may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know God, but in their works they deny him everyday. Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, most people are talking about how they know God with their lips, but by they works they are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded people to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy and most people deny him to his face by saying “I go to church on Sunday (the first day of the week).
 
JohnC said:
So... @Bro.tan

Can you develop your point a bit better regarding "You can't just pray over it and eat it"..... My opinions is that there is truth in that statement... but it's NOT a holiness statement....

For example.... it IS true that you cannot JUST pray over Raw brucellosis infected pork straight off the pig and eat it and expect to be OK..... This falls straight into the category of "Temp God".... But... this is a Medical statement - not a statement that demonstrates your Holiness or lack thereof before God....

I equate it to You can't just pray and step off a Cliff and expect to be OK... God invented Gravity... It's a physical the LAW.. Violating it may kill you.. but "Violating" the law of Gravity doesn't make you UNHOLY before God.... it just makes you dead...

So....
What is your interpretation of "The Lawful use of the Law"....
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Forget about interpretation...(1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn't matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. Paul says in Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Bro.tan said:
Forget about interpretation...(1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn't matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. Paul says in Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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I agree with that.
 
Weird topic. Jesus told me He was just fine with church on Sunday. In fact, He said we are welcome in His house any day. Dang that pesky law that we're freed of.
 
Bro.tan said:
It’s easy for people to say how much they love the Lord, they may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know God, but in their works they deny him everyday. Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, most people are talking about how they know God with their lips, but by they works they are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded people to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy and most people deny him to his face by saying “I go to church on Sunday (the first day of the week).
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Going to church of the 1st day does not violate the rule of Sabbath, but if you want to get technical going to church or synagogue on the 7th day IS a violation of God's Torah regarding it (of one takes the letter of the Law as the heart of God)....
 
Bro.tan said:
Forget about interpretation...(1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn't matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. Paul says in Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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We all agree with this here....we all ave sinned (including you)....thanks be to God for His gift through Jesus Christ...for all who are in Christ will not be judged by the Law (John 3:18; 5:24) so why press this point among those who already are in the kingdom of light who are sealed until the day of redemption?
 
Brother Paul said:
Going to church of the 1st day does not violate the rule of Sabbath, but if you want to get technical going to church or synagogue on the 7th day IS a violation of God's Torah regarding it (of one takes the letter of the Law as the heart of God)....
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The point is moot anyway as Sabbath is really from Friday even to Saturday even.

So the Saturday and Sunday Sabbath keepers are in error.

But seeing how The Sabbath was made for man, and not God, we can rest when appropriate so long as we rest.

Tradition for tradition's sake does not make us righteous and is hated by The King.
 
Dave Lucas said:
The point is moot anyway as Sabbath is really from Friday even to Saturday even.

So the Saturday and Sunday Sabbath keepers are in error.

But seeing how The Sabbath was made for man, and not God, we can rest when appropriate so long as we rest.

Tradition for tradition's sake does not make us righteous and is hated by The King.
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yes they would be in error if they claimed (as do some) that the 1st day is the Sabbath or a "new Sabbath" but that has nothing to do with gathering together in one place for corporate worship does it. That was the point I was addressing. Going to church/synagogue on the 1st day does not violate the Sabbath rule in any way. However, the Law of the Sabbath says to convocate in the place where one lives, in their dwellings (plural), not in a synagogue or church (not that God minds, but the Law does tell us this specifically where we should convocate on the 7th day). We however are in the Lord's rest in Christ. No one in Christ shall face the judgment (John 3:18; 5:34) but because of Him not because we go to church on the Sabbath.
 
My grandson's other Grandmother is a devout Sabbaterian and a deaconess in her church. They are Christ and word centered and I know she loves the Lord dearly. But to be at her house Saturday morning and see her waking them all and rushing about and getting them fed (though all cooked before sundown Friday) and they all getting dressed, combing their hair, showering, etc., then they all go out and get into the car and drive to Temple...

They light lights and rush about...and this is work when it comes to the little ones trust me...then they get into the car and ignite a fire (under the hood) and then drive far from their dwellings....wow! Rest? Hmmm!
 
Bro.tan said:
Now, let's take a look at the dietary law. We will begin in Leviticus the 11th chapter and start at the first verse.

And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, “These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.” (Leviticus 11:1-3)
that shall ye eat.” (Leviticus 11:1-3)

Note what the Lord says to Moses, "Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat." Here the Lord gives us a description of the beast that we can eat. We may not know what a particular animal is, but by using this description we know if the beast is clean or unclean. Let's take a look at the beast that we shall not eat.

Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the hare (rabbit), because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the swine (pig, pork), though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you. (Leviticus 11:4-8)

These are the beasts that shall not be eaten. Why? Because the Lord said so! Take a look at this verse in the book of St. John. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you(John 15:14). So, if an individual call themselves a Christian or a friend of Christ, the swine (pig) should never be on your dinner plate or anything else that the Lord deems unclean.

Remember that Christ is the ONE that gave the dietary law. Remember Christ was the Rock that followed our fathers in the cloud in the wilderness (1Corinthians 10:4).

Remember, He is the Lord and He change not. Remember Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 8:13! It has nothing to do with an animal being a scavenger or anything else.

It has to do with thus say the Lord. He is the one that created us, HE knows what's good or not for His creation. Let's continue;

These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. (Leviticus 11:9)
If the fish has fins and scales it can be eaten. And if it doesn't we can’t.
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you. (Leviticus 11:10-12)

So, no shellfish. You know the lobster, the crab, crayfish, oysters, snails, shrimps, etc. Those of you that like to eat catfish, it must not be eaten. The catfish has fins but it doesn't have scales. The Lord Jesus says these creatures are an abomination onto you and they shall not be eaten.
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I agree. Jesus didn't die so that we could defile our "temples of the Holy Ghost" with filth.
 
Phoneman777 said:
I agree. Jesus didn't die so that we could defile our "temples of the Holy Ghost" with filth.
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And the King said not which goes into the mouth defiles a man, but wickedness that comes from it does.

So eating some bacon will NOT defile you.
Neither some lobster.

Wrap them both together with some finely chopped fresh rosemary and you've got a tasty, non-defiling, appetiser.
 
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