Can't Eat Anything And Just Pray Over It.

And the King said not which goes into the mouth defiles a man, but wickedness that comes from it does.

So eating some bacon will NOT defile you.
Neither some lobster.

Wrap them both together with some finely chopped fresh rosemary and you've got a tasty, non-defiling, appetiser.
Bro, that disagreement between Jesus and the Jewish leaders had nothing to do with unclean food, but was over some imposed protocol by the Jewish leaders as to how clean food was to be eaten.
Did you know there's a Messianic prophecy concerning the second coming of Jesus in Isaiah 66:15-17 that says that swine eaters will be consumed together with nature worshipers and those who eat mice and that which is abominable?
 
Going to church of the 1st day does not violate the rule of Sabbath, but if you want to get technical going to church or synagogue on the 7th day IS a violation of God's Torah regarding it (of one takes the letter of the Law as the heart of God)....


Now if Jesus is our master then we should follow His steps. (1 Peter 2:21) For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: And remember that Jesus is the captain of our salvation. So let’s see our captain lead by example. (Luke 4:14-16) (v.14) And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. (v.15) And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. (v.16) And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue (the church) on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.


Jesus regularly attended religious services on the Sabbath day "as His custom was". He obeyed His own command to meet (holy convocation) every Sabbath day. Apostle Paul's custom was to keep the Sabbath day. (Acts18:1, 4) (v.1) After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; (v.4) And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. Other evidence shows the early Church of God observed the Sabbath (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44; 18:1, 4, 11).


Remember that it was Christ: (1Peter:2:22) Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Jesus did no sin. But what is sin? (1John:3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. So every time you break (transgress) one of God’s commandments you have committed sin. And one of those commandments is to: (Ex.20:8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. That’s why Jesus went to church on the seventh day; it is a sin to say that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, because it is not Christ like! Just like it’s a sin to steal, kill, and commit adultery and so-forth.
 
We all agree with this here....we all ave sinned (including you)....thanks be to God for His gift through Jesus Christ...for all who are in Christ will not be judged by the Law (John 3:18; 5:24) so why press this point among those who already are in the kingdom of light who are sealed until the day of redemption?



Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. Paul said in (1Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.
 
Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. Paul said in (1Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.
After he was convicted of his grievous sin, David prayed earnestly "Cast me not away from Thy presence and take not Thy Holy Spirit from me." in Psalms 51.
There are once saved/always saved Christians here that will read Paul's warning to himself of the result of a failure to keep his body under as being something other than eternally lost. Paul knew what David knew - that to be cast away is to be without the Holy Spirit. Therefore, if any man "hath not the Spirit of God, he is none of His," means you lose your salvation if you are cast away! The awesome thing about comparing Scripture with Scripture is that you inevitably arrive at truth, instead of the compounded delusion that is always the result of cherry picking scholarship.
 
bro.tan said "Now if Jesus is our master then we should follow His steps" to support his position that we should gather together in one place (church or synagogue) on the 7th day, even though it is nowhere commanded to do so, implying that if we do not we are not obedient to Christ.

So bro tan then you must also keep the Feast of Dedication (as Jesus and the Apostles all did) and wear Tzit Tzit, and go to Jerusalem for the Passover (another non-Torah, not commanded CUSTOM made up by men after the Babylonian captivity)...and so on....

We are not required by the scriptures OR the Lord OR His Apostles to follow his observed man made traditions...you are deceived....
 
Remember that it was Christ: (1Peter:2:22) Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Jesus did no sin. But what is sin? (1John:3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. So every time you break (transgress) one of God’s commandments you have committed sin. And one of those commandments is to: (Ex.20:8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. That’s why Jesus went to church on the seventh day; it is a sin to say that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, because it is not Christ like! Just like it’s a sin to steal, kill, and commit adultery and so-forth.

Now you are breaking the commandment which says not to bear false witness...

When Christ came He revealed the more true deeper meaning to the commandments....so You shall not murder becomes explained that in light of God's pure Holiness to even stay angry at a brother is a violation of this command....not only shall we NOT commit adultery but to even harbor lustful thoughts is equal to the same thing compared to God's pure Holiness...so it is with the Sabbath, since no man can keep it as God commanded (because they miss the point) but must add to it or take away from it (as many Sabbaterians do, as the Pharisees did). The need for a day of rest is obviously for our benefit and I rest on the 7th day but NOW spiritually, since the cross and resurrection and our new birth as new creatures we are no longer children of Adam and are now beni-Elohim (the sons of God) we no longer need to strive or do to obtain righteousness (it is by grace through faith)...we have (all genuinely His sons) have entered into HIS rest and that perpetually. We convocate with Him every day (sabbath to sabbath, new moon to new moon)...in the one body (which IS Him)...in Him every day is now a day of convocation and a day of rest.

If you live by the Law you shall die by the Law....if you impose it as a yoke on others you shall be judged by the measure you mete. Good luck with that my friend...
 
"He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit (John 15:5). He explains how to abide in Him, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love" (John 15:10). Finally he concludes about His commandment "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you" (John 15:12).

Therefore abide in His love...

brother Paul
 
Bro, that disagreement between Jesus and the Jewish leaders had nothing to do with unclean food, but was over some imposed protocol by the Jewish leaders as to how clean food was to be eaten.
Did you know there's a Messianic prophecy concerning the second coming of Jesus in Isaiah 66:15-17 that says that swine eaters will be consumed together with nature worshipers and those who eat mice and that which is abominable?

The issue was more than just simple Levite fundalmentalism.

It was about whose authority is whose.

The Levites thought they knew God better than God himself. Blinded by arrogance.

They held to tradition over the Word.

And so to any that speak against what you eat or do not eat are holding to tradition over The Word.

They are blind leaders of the blind. The Ditch awaits.
 
"He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit (John 15:5). He explains how to abide in Him, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love" (John 15:10). Finally he concludes about His commandment "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you" (John 15:12).

Therefore abide in His love...

brother Paul



Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn't dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! Most people are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship. Of we know that you don't God's forth commandments.

Jesus Christ (John 1:1-3, 10-14) is the one who rested on the Sabbath day and commanded that you do the same. If you really understood the scriptures you would realize that He was the one who became known as Jesus who gave you the Ten Commandments. So not only did He command you to cease from your work on that day He also commanded you to. (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church. Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jesus said in Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life,
keep the commandments. So Jesus said, “but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments,” No matter what you read in the Bible, these commandments have to be kept to enter into life, you can’t go in know other place in the Bible and try to overturn what Jesus said here, you just can’t.

Now let’s read further into what Jesus is saying here in Matthew… Jesus said,
Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. This is the Love Jesus is talking about.

 
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I do rest on the Sabbath bro tan, I already told you that (but I attend corporate worship in one place with others on the 1st day)....I do no servile work on the Sabbath, but if my donkey were to fall into a ditch I will surely pull them out, or if my neighbor needs help to the fourth floor with her groceries or her baby carriage I will help (BECAUSE I am the Lord's son) and if my child were in need of a physician I will take them (because this IS the will of God)...and I do all things in thanksgiving, rejoicing in the Lord (everyday not just one and not because I am told to but because that is who He has made me)....what I do I do as unto the Lord (everyday not just one)...I think about God and godly things (everyday not one)....I hear and study the word (everyday not just one)...I pray and seek God and walk with Him and talk with Him (everyday not just one)....everyday is dedicated to Him and I live it by His grace....

Yes to your above post, and Jesus said after you have done all that has been commanded say to thyself " thou unworthy servant thou has only done your duty"! Hallelujah, and thanks be to my ABBA that I am "no more a servant, but a son", a beni-Elohim and "if a son, then an heir of God through Christ..."

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us..."

Why do you only take half the word and form doctrine on it...you are stumbling at the stumbling stone...still thinking in the flesh (that eternal life is obtained by what you do) but truly truly I say unto you, if the Son has made you free you are free indeed...not free to go about willing to sin but covered by His grace (so that you no longer have to strive just do)....do you really believe what God has begun in the Spirit He now expects you to finish in the flesh? No my friend, come awake...He who promised will also so it....He is the author AND THE FINISHER of our faith...eternal life has absolutely NOTHING to do with you or I...but rather what He has done for us.
 
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Dear bro tan...I have two questions for you, please answer them honestly and simply....

1. The Levites worked in the Tabernacle and later in the Temple every day of every year...were they in violation of God's will or commands for doing so?

2. The people of Israel purposefully assembled in ranks and traveled to Jericho and marched all the way around the city seven times for seven days in a row...which day was the Sabbath and did they violate it?

If so how? And if not how come?

Please address these honestly one at a time....

Many thanks

Paul
 
Seriously! You have nothing? Good because it is a no-win scenario for Judaizers. In both cases it was God who commanded them and within His will was the fact that they were to not do Sabbath as you have defined it...God did not miss the point and neither did these obedient Jews...you however did...Peace be unto you
 
I do rest on the Sabbath bro tan, I already told you that (but I attend corporate worship in one place with others on the 1st day)....I do no servile work on the Sabbath, but if my donkey were to fall into a ditch I will surely pull them out, or if my neighbor needs help to the fourth floor with her groceries or her baby carriage I will help (BECAUSE I am the Lord's son) and if my child were in need of a physician I will take them (because this IS the will of God)...and I do all things in thanksgiving, rejoicing in the Lord (everyday not just one and not because I am told to but because that is who He has made me)....what I do I do as unto the Lord (everyday not just one)...I think about God and godly things (everyday not one)....I hear and study the word (everyday not just one)...I pray and seek God and walk with Him and talk with Him (everyday not just one)....everyday is dedicated to Him and I live it by His grace....

Yes to your above post, and Jesus said after you have done all that has been commanded say to thyself " thou unworthy servant thou has only done your duty"! Hallelujah, and thanks be to my ABBA that I am "no more a servant, but a son", a beni-Elohim and "if a son, then an heir of God through Christ..."

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us..."

Why do you only take half the word and form doctrine on it...you are stumbling at the stumbling stone...still thinking in the flesh (that eternal life is obtained by what you do) but truly truly I say unto you, if the Son has made you free you are free indeed...not free to go about willing to sin but covered by His grace (so that you no longer have to strive just do)....do you really believe what God has begun in the Spirit He now expects you to finish in the flesh? No my friend, come awake...He who promised will also so it....He is the author AND THE FINISHER of our faith...eternal life has absolutely NOTHING to do with you or I...but rather what He has done for us.

I do rest on the Sabbath bro tan, I already told you that (but I attend corporate worship in one place with others on the 1st day)....I do no servile work on the Sabbath, but if my donkey were to fall into a ditch I will surely pull them out, or if my neighbor needs help to the fourth floor with her groceries or her baby carriage I will help (BECAUSE I am the Lord's son) and if my child were in need of a physician I will take them (because this IS the will of God)...and I do all things in thanksgiving, rejoicing in the Lord (everyday not just one and not because I am told to but because that is who He has made me)....what I do I do as unto the Lord (everyday not just one)...I think about God and godly things (everyday not one)....I hear and study the word (everyday not just one)...I pray and seek God and walk with Him and talk with Him (everyday not just one)....everyday is dedicated to Him and I live it by His grace....


The Catholic authorities proclaim: "The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the so-call holy Catholic Church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., as taken from History of the Sabbath. pg. 802

The Biblical Sabbath, however, is and has always been on the seventh day of the week, or Saturday. Despite the prevalence of Sunday worship in Christendom, we must look to the Bible as our authority and keep the seventh day Sabbath ordained by God.

Go into your history books and prove me wrong, I challenge you to do so. Sisters and brothers I pray that you read your bibles for yourselves and pray for understanding.

It’s easy for people to say how much you love the Lord, people may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know and love God, but in their works they deny him everyday. Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, most people are talking about how they know and love God with their lips, but by they works they are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded people to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy and most people deny him to his face by saying “I go to church on Sunday (the first day of the week) because Paul broke bread on Sunday or some other excuse”. Paul said in (Gal. 6:3-5, 7) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus go to church on the wrong day of the week (Sunday), and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap.

Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.
 
The Catholic authorities proclaim: "The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the so-call holy Catholic Church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., as taken from History of the Sabbath. pg. 802

First off, you don't expect me to fall for this SDA trick do you? The church had been gathering together on the 1st day of the week to break bread and preach the word since the Apostles (see for one example) and there is an unbroken history and tradition to prove this (which you have seen but chose to ignore) and this long before there even was a Roman Catholic denomination.

Secondly, of course the 7th day is the Sabbath but that has nothing to do with going to gather in pone place for corporate worship. The Lord God commanded the children of Jacob (at Mt Horeb) to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy. A command He had not even given to their fathers () and they are perpetually bound to keep it (all who are part of that covenant) to this day.

But what is it meant to convey? Even the Jewish people made up all sorts of additional distinctions and definitions not in the Torah. So what about my two questions?

Paul
 
The Catholic authorities proclaim: "The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the so-call holy Catholic Church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., as taken from History of the Sabbath. pg. 802

First off, you don't expect me to fall for this SDA trick do you? The church had been gathering together on the 1st day of the week to break bread and preach the word since the Apostles (see for one example) and there is an unbroken history and tradition to prove this (which you have seen but chose to ignore) and this long before there even was a Roman Catholic denomination.

Secondly, of course the 7th day is the Sabbath but that has nothing to do with going to gather in pone place for corporate worship. The Lord God commanded the children of Jacob (at Mt Horeb) to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy. A command He had not even given to their fathers () and they are perpetually bound to keep it (all who are part of that covenant) to this day.

But what is it meant to convey? Even the Jewish people made up all sorts of additional distinctions and definitions not in the Torah. So what about my two questions?

Paul
Interesting discussion. I'm happy that people are willing to go to church on either Saturday or Sunday. As for the Ten Commandments, are we bound to keep them or can we freely break them as often as we want? (Adultery would seem to me to be the most enjoyable and the internet offers a vast arena for just that). What about the commandment to work on Sunday, as in the other six days? Can we just disregard the Ten Commandments as long as we love one another?
 
Choosing to just break or keep according to your own will is being your own Lord (Genesis 3:5) thats not the same as Jesus having fullfillied the Law and we who are IN HIM no longer being under a performance yoke.
 
2 Corinthians 3 - 3 Forasmuch as you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone (the 10 Commandments), but in fleshy tables of the heart (by the indwelling Spirit of God). 4 And such is the trust have we through Christ toward God: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything of ourselves (like as if we keep the commandments and others do not); but our sufficiency is of God (because it is not by what we do or have done, but of Christ); 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills (brings death), but the spirit gives life (His life in us the expectation of glory).


7 But if the ministration of death (the sin consciousness brought on by the Law), written and engraved in stones (that is the 10 Commandments), was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance; which glory eventually faded (because by the commandments they were all guilty): 8 How shall the ministration of the Spirit not be even more glorious (who while we were yet sinners Christ dies for the ungodly…by love and grace)?


9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory (that righteousness which is by faith and not works).


10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels (for it never ends). 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more is that which remains glorious.


In the Exodus Pentecost (Shavuot), 50 days after the deliverance of Israel, the Lord gave the letter of the Law engraved in stone. It was at Mount Sinai in Arabia (called also Horeb), the mount of God in the land of Jethro of Midian…as Moses came down declaring the Commandments the people fled and 3,000 eternally died


(You shall, you shall, you shall not, you shall not…it is all about “Thou” and the eye turns onto self)


In the Acts Pentecost, 50 days after deliverance of whosoever will that would come, the Lord gave the Spirit, and wrote all we need in our hearts. It was on Mt. Zion, in Jerusalem the city made Holy by God. Jesus went UP giving the Spirit and 3,000 were eternally saved.


(And they went about preaching the wonderful works of God…they glorified Christ, led them to salvation…it’s all about God and the eye turns to Christ…what He said and what He did and His gracious offer of love – 2:37-39)


Through the Law comes the knowledge of sin…though grace the love of God to-usward…the ministry of death was engraved on stone and the ministry of righteousness engraved on our hearts by the knowledge of salvation.


Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.


9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


Alive apart from the law…dead by the law! Alive through Christ’s sufficient and pleasing sacrifice.


Colossians 213 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all your trespasses;


14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us (the Law), which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.


So He not only nailed our sins to the cross but also the ordinances against us so they no longer have any effect…by grace we are SAVED.

it is never anymore about US it is 100% about what He did for us

I hope this has helped
 
Choosing to just break or keep according to your own will is being your own Lord (Genesis 3:5) thats not the same as Jesus having fullfillied the Law and we who are IN HIM no longer being under a performance yoke.
So, if we choose to commit adultery of our own will, then we're guilty, but if we choose to commit adultery b/c we now believe that Jesus set us free from the requirement to perform "thou shalt not commit adultery", then we're OK? Seems a little sketchy. I recall that when John the Baptist was reluctant to baptize Jesus, Jesus replied that for him to baptize Jesus would "fulfill all righteousness". So, by your logic, the Redeemed don't have to be righteous because Jesus fulfilled all righteousness just as we don't have to obey the law b/c Jesus fulfilled the law. The only problem with that is Jesus Himself told John that the day is coming when He will declare, "Let him who is filthy be filthy still, let him who is righteous be righteous still." So, maybe "Jesus fulfilled the law so we don't have to" is an erroneous conclusion, based on what took place in the Jordan River?
 
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He who the Son has set free is free indeed (unless you think Jesus lied?). You are made righteous through faith not works. Jesus does not set us free the commands but from the curse of the law. That should not be used as an excuse to sin, but as John says "sin not but if you do you have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ...(paraphrasing)".

So what I am saying (may the Lord allow you to receive it)...Romans 9

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Why? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.

I hope this helps...

brother Paul
 
He who the Son has set free is free indeed (unless you think Jesus lied?). You are made righteous through faith not works. Jesus does not set us free the commands but from the curse of the law. That should not be used as an excuse to sin, but as John says "sin not but if you do you have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ...(paraphrasing)".

So what I am saying (may the Lord allow you to receive it)...Romans 9

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Why? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.

I hope this helps...

brother Paul
Thanks bro. I agree that Jesus set us free from the curse of the law, being made a curse for sin, but I also believe that "he that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the Truth is not in him". My conclusion is that we are saved by grace, but judged by our works because our works prove whether we know Jesus or not. Therefore, a man who has Jesus living out His life in him while He is seated on the throne of his heart does not sin, and should he sin, he can find forgiveness through sorrow and repentance of it - but a man who claims to know Jesus but refuses to keep His commandments is evidencing by his works of sin that He is not enthroned in his heart, and therefore knows not Jesus and is not bound for heaven. I believe this is the balance that is Bible truth, unlike a one-sided Gospel that says obedience is optional.
 
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