Ayrian*
Catholicism- The Truth In The Practices
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MichaelH
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I am just looking at what is considered Protestant. Anyone who is not run under the Authority of the Roman Catholic Church or under the rule of the Papacy. So if a Church fits that, then by definition it's considered Protestant, even if they keep Holy Water and do the Mary thing with those beads.
The first definition was those that followed Martin Luther after the Diet of Worms was declared by the Catholic Church. Martin escaped but under that rule, Catholics saw it as a sign to burn folks at the steak for not following the order.
I don't have any other definition of Protestant, as the term sort of stuck around and changed to anyone not under the rule of the Papacy.
Also not believing in transubstantiation was sort of a requirement.
So, even though the protestant movement started by Christians in Protest of the Evil Roman Catholic Church and their religious ways. By definition even atheist fall into the definition.
Glomung
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Anyone who is not run under the Authority of the Roman Catholic Church or under the rule of the Papacy.
I'm sorry MichaelH, but that is incorrect.
The Orthodox Churches are not Protestant, they share communion with the Roman Catholic Church but do not acept the authority of the Pope. The Coptic Churches are not Protestant, they just have not had any close association with any of the other branches of Christianity due to their geographical and political isolation early on, same can be said of the Thomasines.
Despite appearances to the contrary in the Western world, Protestantism represents a minority of Christians.
A proper description of Protestant would be those churches that developed from the rebellion of Martin Luther and his cohorts against the Roman Catholic authority of the time and those which later developed due to schisms among the aforementioned.
as the old joke goes "Protestant churches multiply by division".
Some groups such as the Unitarians and Christian Scientists have wandered so far astray that they can hardly be called Christian.
I'm sorry MichaelH, but that is incorrect.
The Orthodox Churches are not Protestant, they share communion with the Roman Catholic Church but do not acept the authority of the Pope. The Coptic Churches are not Protestant, they just have not had any close association with any of the other branches of Christianity due to their geographical and political isolation early on, same can be said of the Thomasines.
Despite appearances to the contrary in the Western world, Protestantism represents a minority of Christians.
A proper description of Protestant would be those churches that developed from the rebellion of Martin Luther and his cohorts against the Roman Catholic authority of the time and those which later developed due to schisms among the aforementioned.
as the old joke goes "Protestant churches multiply by division".
Some groups such as the Unitarians and Christian Scientists have wandered so far astray that they can hardly be called Christian.
I'm afraid you're still missing quite a bit.
Protestantism is linked directly Luther's rejection of Papal doctrine. Orthodox churches I believe still participate in the Eucharist, but oppose papal authority.
Officially, we can't just claim everyone is automatically a Protestant if not a Catholic. An Atheist, for instance, is not a Protestant...he would rather simply be an Atheist. A Protestant would be a Christian who rejects the Universal Church and chooses to operate as a Christian according to his own interpretation.
If the implications of penance is temporal, what is the point of doing it?
The sacrament of Penance/reconciliation is a gift given to us by our Lord -- it's an opportunity to acknowledge our sins, not to be acknowledged with fear or grimly, but at the invitation of Jesus since he desires to forgive them. It's definitely very personal.
In John 20 after the resurrection, we can only imagine the disciples were a little afraid to see Him as some of them have turned their backs on Him--Peter even denying Him. Christ offers them peace despite what they may have done. In verses 21-23, Christ breathed on them and said "Receive the Holy Spirit If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you train the sins of any, they have been retained."
Why give up such a great gift?
MichaelH
Inactive
OK, well, I gave where it came from as it was a Protest against the Diet of Worms which would mean there would be no Protestants today unless they oppose the Diet of Worms.
People have taken that to mean what they want.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism
So according to the Wikipedia it's used as a general term and therefore would be unable to identify a group of believers as it's based on what definition you want to use.
It appears to be a Protestant one condition is in the Word itself which means to protest against and in this case a protest against the Roman Catholic orthodoxy. Having no time or care to do that, does that make one still a protestant? Or anyone who is not claiming to be Catholic?
Silly as these things are, someone my come by and find the post interesting.
What is a Sacrament of Penance?
Blessings.
Michaelh
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It's better known as confession. Penance follows confession, but they're tied together.
I say it like this .. I am not non-denominational, I am dominional ..
under God's dominion only ..
God reads hearts .. so IF you confess to a priest or straight to God matters little ..
what happens in your heart is what matters ..
do you have a change of heart about committing that sin or is it lip service ???
IF in your heart you do NOT want to do it again .. then you DID repent ..
and God DOES forgive you because he is righteous to do so ..
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
here is a verse my Protestant & Catholic brothers may want to discuss ..
Hbr 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
MichaelH
Inactive
What does Heb 10:26 have to do with Repenting? I also find the NASB a questionable source because there is nothing there that would signify an act of just sinning over and over in the Greek. The Hebrew writer had one sin in mind and Hebrews was most likely written for those under persecution and turning back to Judaism. The sin is actually mentioned a few scriptures down once a specific condition was met.
Blessing.
Hbr 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
so what SACRIFICE for sin was there besides the cross ???
and by the CROSS (Jesus sacrifice) is repentance even possible ..
if you purposely sin, YOU LOVE SELF OVER GOD ..
the NASB is a very good translation, MUCH less errors then the KJV ..
where do you get "over and over" and what significance is that, if you sin out of NOT THINKING .. the subject is PURPOSELY ..
the GREEK says hekousiōs .. which indeed means WILLFULLY or PURPOSELY ..
Michael .. Jesus told us we CANNOT go to heaven as the old creature and must be born again ..
TRY AND TELL ME YOU ARE NOT THE OLD CREATURE IF YOU ARE PURPOSELY SINNING ..
Luk 9:62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pe 2:21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
IS NOT PAUL REPEATING THE SAME THING HERE ???
Hbr 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hbr 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hbr 6:6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
TRY AND TELL ME YOU ARE NOT THE OLD CREATURE IF YOU ARE PURPOSELY SINNING ..
Luk 9:62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pe 2:21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
IS NOT PAUL REPEATING THE SAME THING HERE ???
Hbr 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hbr 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hbr 6:6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
MichaelH
Inactive
ummm. Kingdom is not a place, but I assume you knew that. Anyone called, but looking back to their own stuff is not fit to rule or be part of the Work, of God.
Yes, Satan will take them captive at his will. Not sure what this has to do with repentance though, it's clear they are worse off before they knew the Lord. Nothing in here about not making it though.
No, Brother.... Paul is not repeating the same thing here. People were going back to Judaism the whole reason some believe Hebrews was written. It's ONE sin, and the only sin that someone will look fearfully for judgement because they committed this sin knowing full well what they were doing. John also mentioned this same sin, same warning. He said don't pray for that sin and warned what He was talking about.
I don't have my e-sword open but the sin was to trample underfoot the covenant and call it unholy thing despite the Blood it was sanctified with. That means to denounce the Lord Jesus despite the Spirit of Grace and go serve another God after knowing the truth. That is the sin you have to commit.
Same thing in Heb 6........... If they fall away, it's impossible for someone to renew them back because they won't listen and the Holy Spirit has stopped dealing with them.
And the Greek does matter because it does not denote a sin over and over or a bunch of different ones, it denotes ONE sin and that sin is to count the blood of the lamb worthless. It's in context with the whole letter of Hebrews and why Hebrews goes over the blood, and sacrifice for sin explaining things because people were turning back to another religion.
Blessings.
When one confesses his sins, it is meaningless if it is only lip service. One's sorrowful heart is necessary for a true confession. Some people abuse this sacrament, show up to confession, confess sins, but have an intention to commit it again until the next confession. This in itself is a very major sin.
One shouldn't go to confession unless it is truly a sincere confession, otherwise it is a waste of time.
Ah, like you see in the movies behind a screen in a phone booth. They say something like, forgive me father for I have sinned then tell about the murder and stuff. So a fancy name for confession.
Haha, a phone booth?
Yes, it has multiple names; Confession, Reconciliation, Penance...all three are actually parts of the sacrament, but the same sacrament nonetheless. One goes to Confession to have Reconciliation with God and Penance is often given after the confessor has confessed.
It's a very intimidating sacrament, but a very important one nonetheless.
MichaelH
Inactive
Thank you, Lots to learn about things here. It's not a phone booth, a confession cubical? Thank you for sharing though, it's good to get better understanding of things and share with each other. Repenting is a good thing, the sooner the better. In Hollywood they sort of make it like months go by and the guy says I got to get to the confession thing, I haven't been in a months, when any sin should be taken care of right away. So Hollywood can paint not so accurate pictures of things.
Blessings
Glomung
Account Closed
Confession practices vary a bit. I give confession facing the priest. I have never used a "confessional", though I've seen them in some of the older parishes. I would assume the confessional provides a bit of anonymity, so as to make confession somewhat less unpleasant.
Amongst the Orthodox, one would usually kneel in front of the priest (who is seated, this sometimes takes a while).
In my experience in Catholic confession, both parties are seated, usually in the priests' office.
The old Orthodox joke is "never give confession to a priest who walks with a cane"
What'd you do THAT for? Whack, whack, whack.
Amongst the Orthodox, one would usually kneel in front of the priest (who is seated, this sometimes takes a while).
In my experience in Catholic confession, both parties are seated, usually in the priests' office.
The old Orthodox joke is "never give confession to a priest who walks with a cane"
What'd you do THAT for? Whack, whack, whack.