PeaceLikeaRiver
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Really? Even Reformers believed it.
Catholics, Orthodox And Friends
- Thread starter MMurphy
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Worship of Mary as the "Mother of God" was instituted into the RCC in the year 431 AD at the Council of Ephesus. Prayers to Mary and dead saints was adopted by the RCC in the year 600 AD.
Since God has no beginning or end, therefore God has no mother! This is where the problem arises. The religious leaders of Jesus's day wanted to kill him because he said he was the Son of God making him equal with God. If Mary is the mother of God that would elevate her to being equal with Jesus, which is a lie. Mary was only used by God to bring forth Jesus's body and human nature not God which came by the Word through the Holy Spirit. Mary was someone chosen by God to bring about his purpose on earth. She was a sinner just like all of us, and needed salvation no different from any person born on planet earth.
I hold to the inerrancy and the authority of God's word as all believers have done since the beginning. That is Knowing God 101.
If you will not or cannot dispute scripture with something spiritually valuable to consider, then by all means feel free to be quiet. Others may feel more free to respond, and you can gather more insight from what others say.
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I am not a reformer, I simply take the Word of God for what it says.
Exactly.
Glomung
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What do you base your opinion on but your own whim?
MMurphy
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No one says they're not different but I do not believe their differences constitute another faith.
Luk 1:46 And Mary said, "My soul magnifies the Lord,
Luk 1:47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
Rom 3:10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.
Not at all. Worship of Mary was and always has been condemned by the Catholic Church. Didn't you see the discussion we had previously in this very thread? There are official statements made that express the difference between devotion and adoration, and adoration for Mary is stated as wrong.
Dead saints? Don't we have everlasting life in heaven?
We're all on board that God doesn't have a literal mother that gave birth to God the father. This is not what the term "Mother of God" means. You must know this.
It doesn't elevate her to being equal with Jesus. It illustrates her obedience to God when she said yes to Him.
Rethink what you just said about the mother of our Lord. The idea that we was merely used to carry Christ and give birth to him downplays her as an incubator for Jesus. Would you ever call your own mother an incubator for you? Of course not. Would you ever call someone else's mother that? No, that would be disrespectful. So think twice before you call the mother of Christ that as well, because it's far worse to say that about the mother of our Lord.
I agree that because she was also human she needed a savior, but that's exactly what we believe -- through the salvation of God making it so, she was not tainted with original sin.
But once more...let's get back to the subject because now we're discussing something off topic.
It all boils down to worship. She had sin just like you and me---born in sin. Only Jesus is worthy of worship and is sinless.
As to the dead saints aspect, if they are indeed saved people, their spirits are in heaven where they belong, but they have no omniscience or omnipresence or authority to hear the prayers of saints on earth who are instructed to pray in the name of Jesus Christ through Him, as sole mediator between God and man. Our prayers and petitions cannot take little side trips.
Why not adore Paul the apostle, or John, or anybody? Why Mary? She was just a sinner like everyone else. To me it makes no Biblical sense to have statues of even try and it to get to God through Mary who has no part in these things. I really really encourage you to take leave of the RCC Church and run away as fast as you can. If not now, you will later as you learn more of the truth of the Gospel.
MMurphy
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I've only seen the synods commending her as theotokos not worshiping her.
What is our purpose to one another? Is it not to pray for one another and intercede in prayer? The Scriptures tell us it is. Why discredit those who are in the presence of Christ to not having the ability to pray for those who are still on earth but also part of the body of Christ?
Do you not see that every single person who is a believer is also by the same Holy Spirit impregnated with the Word of God and then gives birth to Christ in us? No different than Mary! We are all the mother of Jesus as Jesus said.....
Mar 3:33 And he answered them, "Who are my mother and my brothers?"
Mar 3:34 And looking about at those who sat around him, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers!
Mar 3:35 For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother."
CCW, please forgive me if this seems rude, but if you cannot pay attention, I cannot keep this going. I mentioned multiple times, cited the official statements, and explained in detail this main point: ADORATION TO MARY IS CONDEMNED BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Adoration is only reserved for God. It is clear in the Bible, it is clear in the Catechism, and it is clear over and over again.
Devotion does not equal adoration. Adoration is worship while devotion is less so. We are called to honor our parents, but that is not the same as adoration. Likewise, we are to honor Mary because she is the mother of Christ, but we do not adore her--rather, we adore her son.
As for Paul the Apostle, we do venerate him and recognize his sainthood. Does this mean we adore him? Absolutely not. We respect him.
Please pay attention otherwise this cannot go anywhere.
CCW, after years of research, rejection from Protestant friends, insults, and distress in my conversion from Protestantism to Catholicism, why would a stranger over the internet no less who gives me no genius food for thought, telling me to run from the Catholic Church be reason to actually do so?
If you want me to leave the Catholic Church, you must have a damned genius argument against it. Every argument you have ever made against it is one I have asked years ago and then found an answer for years ago. In fact, you have only hit the tip of the ice burg as far as arguments against Catholicism goes.
I am not a Johnny-Come-Lately. I have heard every single argument against the Church and they have all been answered even centuries before the reformation.
Because as you already know.....
(1 Timothy 2:5) For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
The difference is Mary literally was impregnated with the divine Child. Christ was literally conceived by the Holy Spirit and literally born of the Virgin Mary.
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