Christian Doctine

Yes, I don't engage in end times over-think. The Bible says that Christ will return to judge the living and the dead and that's enough for me.
I don't participate in trying to decode prophecy nor do I participate in zionism or make predictions about who the anti christ is or when they'll appear. The Bible says we aren't to make predictions. I'm chill
Excellent post.

You see, and I hope you understand, some of us (Bob in Faith, and others) have been called to teach and preach the Word of God.

As such we are expected to be able to answer the question concerning all Scriptures. Therefore, we went to school, learned the aspects of all the Scriptures including the 2n Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Lord knows that does not make anyone of us an expert, but we do and should have a higher degree of knowledge of those events if we are to correctly teach the Word of God.

1 Peter 3:15
"but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;"

Acts 20:28.........
"Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood."

Titus 1:9.....
"He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it."
 
Major ... My auntie has belonged to the same independent pentecostal denomination for the last 50+ years.
Never any fresh blood.... titles passed down from ONE man and his wife... and it stayed in the family. Recently
the matriarch passed away... but all the sons remain.

The hypocrisy that overflows from my family is horrifying.... because they hide their sin... they cover it up... don't confess it... deny it... etc, All at the cost of LOOKIING good for the outside world.

My auntie is highly manipulative.... she guilts people into complying with her agenda.... She uses the book of Leviticus and the rest of the Old Testament as a basis for following the LAW... yet she will claim she is saved by Grace.

So... people who drink are going to hell
People who swear are going to hell.
People who smoke are going to hell
People with tattoos are going to hell ( perhaps twice ). HA
The list goes on and on and on.... and on.

Their own success is gleaned from harshly judging others around them.

If this sounds dramatic and unkind.... It is simply the TRUTH.

No one talks about it... I am the ONLY family who has DARED to confront the hypocrisy of this RELIGIOUS sect.
Everyone else just tolerated it and accepted it as oh... well... that's just Auntie so and so.
When I moved back to my home town in 2014.... I lived with this aunt for 3 months... and I couldn't stand being in the same
house... I felt as though I was choking. The condemnation and lack of compassion was staggering... and so... I walked away
and declared that I STAND against everything they represent.

I have been brutally honest here.
 
Major ... My auntie has belonged to the same independent pentecostal denomination for the last 50+ years.
Never any fresh blood.... titles passed down from ONE man and his wife... and it stayed in the family. Recently
the matriarch passed away... but all the sons remain.

The hypocrisy that overflows from my family is horrifying.... because they hide their sin... they cover it up... don't confess it... deny it... etc, All at the cost of LOOKIING good for the outside world.

My auntie is highly manipulative.... she guilts people into complying with her agenda.... She uses the book of Leviticus and the rest of the Old Testament as a basis for following the LAW... yet she will claim she is saved by Grace.

So... people who drink are going to hell
People who swear are going to hell.
People who smoke are going to hell
People with tattoos are going to hell ( perhaps twice ). HA
The list goes on and on and on.... and on.

Their own success is gleaned from harshly judging others around them.

If this sounds dramatic and unkind.... It is simply the TRUTH.

No one talks about it... I am the ONLY family who has DARED to confront the hypocrisy of this RELIGIOUS sect.
Everyone else just tolerated it and accepted it as oh... well... that's just Auntie so and so.
When I moved back to my home town in 2014.... I lived with this aunt for 3 months... and I couldn't stand being in the same
house... I felt as though I was choking. The condemnation and lack of compassion was staggering... and so... I walked away
and declared that I STAND against everything they represent.

I have been brutally honest here.
I've heard troubling ...uh, "theology" from Pentecostals. To be fair, I've heard troubling things from other denominations but, Pentecostals seem to get an uncanny amount of bad press.

Lets remember to pray. We're all sinners.
 
I like this simple picture to help understand some concepts in God`s word.

The outside of a door -and on the outside is written `whosoever may come.`

The inside of the door - has `chosen in Him. `


The terminology fits the position.
 
Excellent post.

You see, and I hope you understand, some of us (Bob in Faith, and others) have been called to teach and preach the Word of God.

As such we are expected to be able to answer the question concerning all Scriptures. Therefore, we went to school, learned the aspects of all the Scriptures including the 2n Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Lord knows that does not make anyone of us an expert, but we do and should have a higher degree of knowledge of those events if we are to correctly teach the Word of God.

1 Peter 3:15
"but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;"

Acts 20:28.........
"Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood."

Titus 1:9.....
"He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it."

Thank you, Major.
 
Major ... My auntie has belonged to the same independent pentecostal denomination for the last 50+ years.
Never any fresh blood.... titles passed down from ONE man and his wife... and it stayed in the family. Recently
the matriarch passed away... but all the sons remain.

The hypocrisy that overflows from my family is horrifying.... because they hide their sin... they cover it up... don't confess it... deny it... etc, All at the cost of LOOKIING good for the outside world.

My auntie is highly manipulative.... she guilts people into complying with her agenda.... She uses the book of Leviticus and the rest of the Old Testament as a basis for following the LAW... yet she will claim she is saved by Grace.

So... people who drink are going to hell
People who swear are going to hell.
People who smoke are going to hell
People with tattoos are going to hell ( perhaps twice ). HA
The list goes on and on and on.... and on.

Their own success is gleaned from harshly judging others around them.

If this sounds dramatic and unkind.... It is simply the TRUTH.

No one talks about it... I am the ONLY family who has DARED to confront the hypocrisy of this RELIGIOUS sect.
Everyone else just tolerated it and accepted it as oh... well... that's just Auntie so and so.
When I moved back to my home town in 2014.... I lived with this aunt for 3 months... and I couldn't stand being in the same
house... I felt as though I was choking. The condemnation and lack of compassion was staggering... and so... I walked away
and declared that I STAND against everything they represent.

I have been brutally honest here.
I appreciate your "brutal" honesty. I will do the same thing and support it with Biblical truth. That way, if something said bothers you, you can call God at 1-800-TELL-LORD!

The very 1st problem is ---"Pentecostal denomination ....... ONE man and his wife... "!

Please do not take this the wrong way and if anyone reading this thinks I am saying something I am not, BUT many of the small Pentecostal and yes, Baptist churches have Pastors who are not educated in Bible theology. They feel as if God has called them to preach and maybe He has, however, those MEN should then become educated so that they can properly teach the Word of God. That lack of education then always leads to people misinterpreting what God actually said and that leads to false Doctrine.

There are NO Scriptures that say women are allowed to be Pastors....Zero....None!

You said.......
"My auntie is highly manipulative.... she guilts people into complying with her agenda.... She uses the book of Leviticus and the rest of the Old Testament as a basis for following the LAW... yet she will claim she is saved by Grace."

There again is a woman in charge.

1 Timothy 3:1-3......
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; ".

In the original Greek, the words, Man, He and husband are all the same word identified as Male....not Humanity.

Now then......how can you fix this??? You can not!
Only God can deliver them from their deception.


What you are describing is the result of those who are not educated in the Bible but are rooted in what they have been taught and told and what that is, is unbiblical!

I feel like I need to explain what I mean by the Pentecostal Denonination. When I am referring to is those who accept.......
#1. justification, which is the forgiveness of sins that comes from putting faith in Jesus Christ.
#2. sanctification, which was first taught by John Wesley in his “A Plain Account of Christian Perfection” (1766).

Both of those are accepted Christian teaching based on the Bible However in #3 we see the problem..........
#3. The essence of this doctrine is an inner purity of heart and an infusion of power, whereby the believer no longer practices sin.
Now folks, that is not Biblical. Romans 7 teaches us that we struggle with our sin nature until we die.

Romans 7:18....."For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out".


#4. Then there is the 2nd blessing “baptism of the Spirit,” as evidenced by speaking in tongues or other signs.
The Bible teaches us that when we accept Jesus we get all of the Holy Spirit at that very moment. Scripture never commands believers to seek a second blessing after salvation.

Ephesian 1:13......

" And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,".

So then, your family is living in a world of their own creation. They are mixing Grace with Law and believing that do's and don'ts = Salvation. They have fallen into the trap of self righteousness by their ability to do things or not do things according to what they believe the Law said.

What we don't do and what we do has nothing whatsoever to do with our standing before God. We are "Forgiven" of our sin due to the fact that Jesus paid for them with His blood plus Nothing.

That is brutal, but it is the truth. I am sure some will disagree and all I can say is that they should post the Scriptures that support their opinion.

I think that your leaving that environment was your best move. Sometimes we have to chose who we associate with very carefully so that we can maintain our sanity and positive attitude. I hope that this in someway helps you.

I am not trying to attack the Pentecostal denomination. Please do not attempt to debate your disagreements here on this post as it is a personal observation to someone who asked me for an opinion on a personal matter.
 
I've heard troubling ...uh, "theology" from Pentecostals. To be fair, I've heard troubling things from other denominations but, Pentecostals seem to get an uncanny amount of bad press.

Lets remember to pray. We're all sinners.
To be totally fair, we have to admit that all denominations have troubling teachings.

Again, to be completely fair and balanced, I am a Southern Baptist. I am that because of all the years of study, I personally found that the SBC is the closest to what the Bible teaches us in correct doctrine.

Now when someone shows me the Scripture specifically that links physical healing with spiritual healing, I will repent.
When someone shows me the Scripture that says God owes us money when we give to Him, I will repent.
 
Now when someone shows me the Scripture specifically that links physical healing with spiritual healing, I will repent.
When someone shows me the Scripture that says God owes us money when we give to Him, I will repent.
I grew up Southern Baptist. I'm Orthodox now.
I've always had a problem with the idea of a transactional relationship with God.
Is the the teaching physical healing linked to spiritual healing a pentecostal teaching?
 
Cocoa John Calvin certainly wasn’t correct on every biblical topic no one is. But when writing upon Divine election and predestination and why God chooses to accept some and pass over others Calvin is correct. John Calvin is merely explaining what many in the church have always clearly believed on the matter according to-the word of God. View attachment 12053. Cocoa you say Augustine did not write about the matter of Divine election as Calvin did . Well Augustine did exactly that. You might consider this publication for a deeper understanding about Saint Augustine’s doctrinal beliefs on Divine election. It was not only a Protestant belief but also Catholic. What be your denomination. Ok to ask View attachment 12054. View attachment 12055View attachment 12058. Cocao you also mention John 3:16. I dare say that God could save the entire world if he so chose but he has chosen not to do so and that be his Divine right . But tell me this is God beholden to his creation that he must bow and accept anyone who demands salvation??? We must consider deeper who be the potter and who be the clay. As to you saying that this be a glaring contradiction of the gospel because God chooses to reject others. I see no contradiction because the gospel continues to search out Gods elect until the appointed time when the last sheep is drawn into the fold.. Cocao now me cannot say much more according to site rules I only reply out of due respect in considering deeper thought on the matter. Wishing you a blessed day ahead. Yours Prim View attachment 12060
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. If you believe that God has rejected some from salvation and accepted others then I won't argue. I don't know any believers in Christ that arrogantly demand salvation. One must recognize with humility and sorrow of heart that they are a sinner in need of a Savior.

How can you rightly pray for someones salvation when it's possible a person was divinely appointed to be a rereprobate?

How can a righteous God justly send someone to hell that He appointed to live a life of sin? A murder is just acting out his divine assignt.

And John 3: 16... For God so loved the elect that He gave His only begotten Son, so that when the predestined believe, only they will not perish but have everlasting life.

The Bible says Christ died for ALL but if your saying He didn't, them we've reached an impasse.

1 Timothy 2:1 -4
2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
NKJV​

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [a]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Romans 6:10
New King James Version​

10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
 
Now you may not be aware, but I was brought up in the Apostolic denomination that came out of the Welsh Revival. They believed in all that the Major has posted. They believed in the trinity.
 
I've always had a problem with the idea of a transactional relationship with God.

To transact with God is to tempt God.

And he took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here,for it is written, “‘He will command his angels concerning you, to guard you,’and “‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” - Luke 4:9-12

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke4:9-12&version=ESV
 
To transact with God is to tempt God.
I think cocoa has in mind something more like

1 Peter 3:18 ESV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

or better...

Romans 4:3 ESV
For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

Correct me if I'm wrong, Cocoa
 
I think cocoa has in mind something more like

1 Peter 3:18 ESV
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

or better...

Romans 4:3 ESV
For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

Correct me if I'm wrong, Cocoa
It's more when prosperity gospel blurs the lines of sincerity and expectations. Church goers are encouraged to give generously with the expectation of receiving generously. Is it a true offering or an act of selfish ambition?

Only praying when I need something vs praying without ceasing. Something I can't handle in my own strength, prompts me to acknowledge God because I need Him to fix something.
 
So then, your family is living in a world of their own creation. They are mixing Grace with Law and believing that do's and don'ts = Salvation. They have fallen into the trap of self righteousness by their ability to do things or not do things according to what they believe the Law said.

What we don't do and what we do has nothing whatsoever to do with our standing before God. We are "Forgiven" of our sin due to the fact that Jesus paid for them with His blood plus Nothing.

That is brutal, but it is the truth. I am sure some will disagree and all I can say is that they should post the Scriptures that support their opinion.
Good morning Dear Major.

I did not find your response brutal. Doctrine critique is a NON-personal thing. I view things through a very black and white glass when it comes to DOCTRINE... so if something is unbiblical.... it is UNBIBLICAL and therefore NOT worthy of study = run for the hills and get away lest you be deceived.

Thank you for taking the time to address my query. I wanted to hear it from a man of the cloth so to speak.

I am actually surprised with the things I gleaned and learned from your heart felt response to me and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the TIME to explain what you surmised from my sharing. I believe you are SPOT on in your assessment and that actually SOFTENS my heart towards my family. I have no intention of making amends with them... but I also will no longer be able to see them as harshly as I once did. They are victims of BAD teaching who are simply believing what they were taught.

An observation regarding the forums

Thank you for ALLOWING me to be brutally honest with my words and thoughts.

I am at a point now that when I come to someone... and I ask a question... I am also opening my heart to CORRECTION from another. OH my goodness.... DID you hear that ???? HAHAHAHAHA.... This is HUGE for me my dear forum family. Like seriously..... TRUST has begun to arrive in my little heart..... THANK YOU FATHER for bringing me here.
 
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. If you believe that God has rejected some from salvation and accepted others then I won't argue. I don't know any believers in Christ that arrogantly demand salvation. One must recognize with humility and sorrow of heart that they are a sinner in need of a Savior.

How can you rightly pray for someones salvation when it's possible a person was divinely appointed to be a rereprobate?

How can a righteous God justly send someone to hell that He appointed to live a life of sin? A murder is just acting out his divine assignt.

And John 3: 16... For God so loved the elect that He gave His only begotten Son, so that when the predestined believe, only they will not perish but have everlasting life.

The Bible says Christ died for ALL but if your saying He didn't, them we've reached an impasse.

1 Timothy 2:1 -4
2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
NKJV​

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [a]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Romans 6:10
New King James Version​

10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Cocoa you think you’ll have to disagree with me on that one .,Well that’s ok. You don’t know any believers that arrogantly demand salvation. Well they be aplenty more so where false conversions abound . More so in the prosperity movement. Give us a fiver and God shall turn your fiver into a hundred dollar. It’s as if God has become mans little genie or golem to dictate to God as they choose. IMG_4094.jpeg. You ask how can one pray for someone’s salvation when it’s possible that person was divinely appointed to be a reprobate. Cocoa I pray for many as I’m sure you do also . I simply pray for God to draw and his will to be done as he pleases . I fail to see how that would affects one’s praying. IMG_4094.jpeg. You than enquire how can a righteous God send someone to hell that he appointed to live a life of sin. Cocoa Firstly it was man that sinned not God. God could have nuked Adam & EVe and the entire world there and then if he chose and started afresh. But he chose not to and that be his Divine right that he chose not to. You ask Is God a murderer just acting out his Divine plan or assignment. Whilst it is true that our God has killed billions over the millennia and with one lot of humanity he did drown the entirety of the rebel of the old world all except for 8. Does that make God a murderer. No because we were all under the death penalty from the moment the best of the best of humanity from Adam & Eve sinned. God is just and righteous in all his ways. But do remember God has the sovereign right and power to save and redeem whom he pleases. You have not chosen me but have I chosen you does come to mind. All from the good pleasure and mercy of God he has never lost a sheep from his known flock. IMG_0156.pngIMG_0159.jpeg. Cocoa you than mention John 3:,16 with Christ dying for all. That he did. But doesn’t mean he will save all as is well attested throughout scripture. Cocoa you than write a updated version of John 3:16. ( for God do loved the elect that he gave his only begotten son so when the predestined believe they will not perish ) well I sure Arthur Pink would warmly smile upon that : ) he was a big believer that the world mentioned in John 3:16 was referring to the universal church. I not lay claim to that but since you did mention in your updated version of John 3:16 it be food for thought : ) IMG_4094.jpeg And finally to 1st Timothy 2:1-4 well yes the passage certainly says to pray for the ruling authorities over us so that we can live in peace with those in authority over us. And that God who would like all people to be saved. But again Cocoa this solely depends on the sovereignty of God of who all the all shall be. And that be for God to decide. Is it mere mortals that decide and dictate to God or is it God that decides draws and chooses them . To say that God is not sovereign over salvation and that humanity gets to decide becomes extremely problematic. Children of a lesser God does come to mind and would end with that conclusion. That is all . Yours Prim
 
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Cocoa you think you’ll have to disagree me on that one .,Well that’s ok. You don’t know any believers that arrogantly demand salvation. Well they be aplenty more so where false conversions abound . More so in the prosperity movement. Give us a fiver and God shall turn your fiver into a hundred dollar. It’s as if God has become mans little genie or golem to dictate to God as they choose. View attachment 12062. You ask how can one pray for someone’s salvation when it’s possible that person was divinely appointed to be a reprobate. Cocoa I pray for many as you I sure you do also . I simply pray for God to draw and his will to be done as he pleases . I fail to see how that would affects one’s praying. View attachment 12062. You than enquire how can a righteous God send someone to hell that he appointed to live a life of sin. Cocoa Firstly it was man that sinned not God. God could have nuked Adam & EVe and the entire world there and then if chose and started afresh. But he chose not to and that his Divine right that he chose not to. You ask Is God a murderer just acting out his Divine plan or assignment. Whilst it is true that our has killed billions over the millennia and with one lot of humanity he did drown the entirety of the rebel of the old world all except for 8. Does that make God a murderer. No because we were all under the death penalty from the moment the best of the best of humanity from Adam & Eve sinned. God is just and righteous in all his ways. But do remember God has the sovereign right and power to save and redeem whom he pleases. You have not chosen me but have I chosen you does come to mind. All from the good pleasure and mercy of God he has never lost a sheep from his known flock. View attachment 12063View attachment 12064. Cocoa you than mention John 3:,16 with Christ dying for all. That he did. But doesn’t mean he will save all as is well attested throughout scripture. Cocoa you than write a updated version of John 3:16. ( for God do loved the elect that he gave his only begotten son so when the predestined believe they will not perish ) well I sure Arthur Pink would warmly smile upon that : ) he was a big believer that the world mentioned in John 3:16 was referring to the universal church. I not lay claim to that but since you did mention in your updated version of John 3:16 it be food for thought : ) View attachment 12062 And finally to 1st Timothy 2:1-4 well yes the passage certainly says to pray for the ruling authorities over us so that we can live in peace with those in authority over us. And that God who would like all people to be saved. By again Cocoa this solely depends on the sovereignty of God of who all the all shall be. And that be for God to decide. Is it mere mortals that decide and dictate to God or is it God that decides and chooses . To say that God is not sovereign over salvation and that humanity gets to decide becomes extremely problematic. Children of a lesser God would be the end conclusion. That is all . Yours Prim
If God desires all to be saved but ultimately decides against that desire by decidedly chosing not to save everyone is double minded. It's a bleak take on salvation and doesn't provide any hope.
How can you be sure that you yourself have salvation? You'd have to arrogantly assume that you are a chosen one. Matthew 7:21-23.

Also, John 15:16 is Jesus speaking to his disciples, claiming them as friends just as Abraham was a friend of God, because Abraham freely obeyed just as the disciples freely followed Christ out of sincere love not because they were predestined to follow. James 2: 20-21.

Thank you for sharing your views.
 
@Prim.... Your points addressed to cocoa .... are issues with the doctrine of Calvinism.

The above is what you addressed to me.... Should you not have brought your response to her quietly via private message?
In Awe of him seems that the moderators are allowing the subject on hand to be discussed and to continue as long as it remains orderly l. Yours Prim
 
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If God desires all to be saved but ultimately decides against that desire by decidedly chosing not to save everyone is double minded. It's a bleak take on salvation and doesn't provide any hope.
How can you be sure that you yourself have salvation? You'd have to arrogantly assume that you are a chosen one. Matthew 7:21-23.

Also, John 15:16 is Jesus speaking to his disciples, claiming them as friends just as Abraham was a friend of God, because Abraham freely obeyed just as the disciples freely followed Christ out of sincere love not because they were predestined to follow. James 2: 20-21.

Thank you for sharing your views.
How can I be sure . Because the Bible tells me so. Cacao God is not double minded . To me we have two choices either God is absolute Sovereign or he is not . Yours Prim
 
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