We can privately message. We should respect tge rules. I'll edit my replay and relay it privately.
Christian Doctine
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
Oh, I just private messaged you. I didnt see your reply until now.
I appreciate your response and I am very blessed that it was helpful to you.
My dear friend....you are welcome to send me a PM anytime you want to and I will be glad to speak with you. Not all things are allowed to be discussed in the open forum here.
And you are very correct. Your family are victims of false teachings that "sound" good but are dangerous as you can now attest to.
However.....they are still your family and I would suggest that you still love them and participate with them.......but avoid theological debates. I have advised others about this and the best way to avoid conflicts when they come up is to say......
"You know that we do not agree on that so lets leave it alone".
I do not blame you as a "transactional relationship" with God is not Biblical!
Someone is probably asking....what is that?????
A transactional relationship with God is one that assumes we can earn or lose God’s favor by our actions. It is based on the idea that God rewards us for doing good and punishes us for doing bad. However, this is not how God relates to us as believers. He loves us unconditionally and saves us by grace, not by works.
You asked me.........
"Is the the teaching physical healing linked to spiritual healing a pentecostal teaching?"
YES!
Pentecostals, Charismatics and members of Pentecostal-like independent churches believe in divine healing and they usually prefer this term to ‘faith healing’. Pentecostals belief in healing is often based on testimonies of people who have themselves experienced healing, and they see this as a direct intervening act of God.
We know that God is compassionate and powerful, and can do anything in his love-filled purposes. Sometimes (but not always) these purposes are to heal and to relieve suffering and affliction. I always pray for people to be healed even when I seldom see it happening, and I gladly receive prayer for healing when I need it.
I spent several years studying the differences between denominations. The real historical facts that you asked about are that the belief of ‘divine healing’ and ‘healing in the atonement’ were already widespread in the North American Holiness movement in the nineteenth century out of which Pentecostalism emerged, and the idea also existed in early Methodism. Holiness leaders like Charles Cullis, A.B. Simpson and Asa Mahan were staunch proponents of divine healing through faith. The Holiness movement stressed the four elements of a ‘full gospel’ .......
1. of salvation,
2. healing,
3. holiness and the
4. Second Coming of Christ.
The distinctiveness added by early Pentecostals was another element, the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which Pentecostals usually linked to speaking in tongues. In plain English, they taught and still do that "IF" you are born again then you will speak in tongues.
That idea is not found in the Bible by the way.
This is what I was so SCARED to hear.... it was what I expected you would say... and it is something I am going to have to really pray about.
It has been over 10 years since I walked away from my family. I am in contact and in relationship with my niece... she is the daughter of my cousin.... and so it is the NEXT generation and I made the pledge to tuck her under my wing and correct that bad RELIGION she gets exposed to. Ironically in rebellion she chose to get a plethora of tattoos and piercings because this is what was MOST offensive to her grandma ( my aunt ). It's a mess... and the drama that follows this family because of all the hypocrisy is appalling.
At this point.... I really don't know what I will do. I have taken your counsel most seriously... and I will open my heart to the thought of making amends to my aunt. My niece has often stated that she is deeply bothered by the fact that I do not speak to her.
Thank you again. I have much to pray about in regards to this matter.
Hey Sister. I knew that and LOL........So was I !!!
Forced religion always results in rebellion!
Trying to keep The Law always results in breaking the Law.
NowHere is my point and something to think about. I hear all you are saying but let me ask you this........when one of your close family members dies, will you attend their funeral?????
Death ends all chances of reconciliation and Jesus died reconcile the sinner to God.
I wish that we could discuss this topic openly, but alas the rules do not allow it. You are welcome to PM if you think I could help you about Predestination and Free Will Choices.
I think that I can say this and not get into trouble, if it does not meet the rules of the Forum, then they can delete it.......but
God has given everyone the gift of freewill, and thus the ability to choose good or evil. He has attached blessings to good and curses to evil. Therefore, each person’s choice of either good or evil “foreordains,” “calls,” “selects,” and “predestines” that person to the blessings or curses attached to the choice.
I have absolutely no problem in stating.... NO I will not be attending any of my family's funerals. For me to attend any of my family's funerals would be the height of hypocrisy. This aunt was married to my mother's brother. I'm not sure what that makes her to me. I have always called her auntie. Her daughter's daughter is the one I am in relationship with... She is my daughter's age. It's complicated but most importantly it's so appallingly UGLY that I cannot bring myself to partake in any of it. I don't miss them at all.... and I guess perhaps that is because we were never really all that close. I knew her to be religious as a child. When I moved back to my home town in 2014... I moved in with her and only lasted there 3 months.
So... again... this is NOT about my pride.... it's about my mental wellness and peace.... and that to me is something I am not easily willing to part with. I can't help but think/feel that coming back would mean I am condoning their beliefs... If I could get that thought out of my head.... it would be easier to simply bless my auntie before she dies and tell her we are good.
Anyways.... I have much to think about here.
*** Edit..... I just want to add that being a Christian does not mean we get everything right... and I am not stating I am right.... I am simply sharing my heart openly and honestly. Much of my past life is NOT pretty or nice... and that is a reality I need to live with. Just saying.
I agree that you should continue to love them and pray for them but I don't think you should participate in something spiritually that is not Biblical. But, I do agree that reaching out can be good. Especially, if you stand firm in your beliefs, you have nothing to fear.
Pray and ask God to guide you and take it slow.
I agree. You seem to have already made the decision.
It is not about you being right or wrong but being comfortable with your decision.
God bless you!
I revisit this every once in awhile... and even though I am adamant about NOT wanting to do this.... I am truly open to doing what would be best for my aunt who is now in her mid--70's... so I am now back to praying about this issue. God bless you Major
Hello Major;
You're doing a great job authoring and managing this thread. It's been overall civil with the emphasis of learning and fellowship. Let's proceed carefully to expand the topic as you posted. I know you're able to tie it back to the verb of Christian Doctrine.
We have monitored this topic carefully and if it goes south in accordance with the forum rules I'll take responsibility.
Otherwise, the members can continue pm'g others.
We'll prayerfully proceed, Major. God bless you.
Bob
Be safe and God bless.
I have no problems in doing so. I only mentioned "predestination" to say that we can not discuss it and I have no intention of perusing that.
It is a frustration over the LACK of agreement and UNITY within the definition of absolutes.
As written in the OP... Major listed 8 things that are essential to define a Christian. These are NON negotiable points.
I too struggle with these differences of opinions/beliefs.... to the point where some non-essentials are essential to me and therefore if someone declares they believe something that is so offensive to me.... I will NOT allow them to ever TEACH me. I call that guarding my heart.
I have spoken to Prim in private message and verbalized the same thing as you ( that I am not in agreement with the Calvinist Doctrine
and SO.... I respect her beliefs and since I am not open to changing my own beliefs... I feel it is fruitless to continue conversing on the subject.)
I don't think I offended her.... I'm sure she is used to other believers differing in opinion.... so perhaps you are projecting something that is not there???
I don't think we should be made to feel bad or guilty about what we choose to believe AS LONG as we can be RESPECTFUL with our communication. I certainly do NOT feel guilty for my beliefs.
There are some who seem to like to push the envelope on the topics that are NOT allowed to be discussed.... and your frustration is one of those reasons I believe these topics are banned from here. WE need to be standing together in UNITY and PEACE.... and those doctrinal topics... as you have stated always seem to divide instead of bring together.
I guess it comes down to what WE can live with and what we can't.
I know you have had problems with me calling the forums my church.... but let me tell you.... I have grown in leaps and bounds here within the forums. For the FIRST time in my life.... I have come to TRUST other believers... to the point of being open to correction and feeling like I am actually part of a family. WE don't have churches like this in my city... and that is simply a reality.
Anyways..... for what it's worth.... I think I understand that feeling of anguish when it comes to division of the body.
Be blessed forgiven61 .
As written in the OP... Major listed 8 things that are essential to define a Christian. These are NON negotiable points.
I too struggle with these differences of opinions/beliefs.... to the point where some non-essentials are essential to me and therefore if someone declares they believe something that is so offensive to me.... I will NOT allow them to ever TEACH me. I call that guarding my heart.
I have spoken to Prim in private message and verbalized the same thing as you ( that I am not in agreement with the Calvinist Doctrine
and SO.... I respect her beliefs and since I am not open to changing my own beliefs... I feel it is fruitless to continue conversing on the subject.)
I don't think I offended her.... I'm sure she is used to other believers differing in opinion.... so perhaps you are projecting something that is not there???
I don't think we should be made to feel bad or guilty about what we choose to believe AS LONG as we can be RESPECTFUL with our communication. I certainly do NOT feel guilty for my beliefs.
There are some who seem to like to push the envelope on the topics that are NOT allowed to be discussed.... and your frustration is one of those reasons I believe these topics are banned from here. WE need to be standing together in UNITY and PEACE.... and those doctrinal topics... as you have stated always seem to divide instead of bring together.
I guess it comes down to what WE can live with and what we can't.
I know you have had problems with me calling the forums my church.... but let me tell you.... I have grown in leaps and bounds here within the forums. For the FIRST time in my life.... I have come to TRUST other believers... to the point of being open to correction and feeling like I am actually part of a family. WE don't have churches like this in my city... and that is simply a reality.
Anyways..... for what it's worth.... I think I understand that feeling of anguish when it comes to division of the body.
Be blessed forgiven61 .
I don't want doctrine to represent me.... I want doctrine to explain what GOD wants.
I think part of the problem is that most doctrine is INGRAINED in people because they were raised in it... and that makes it very difficult to correct false teaching. This is what happened in my own family.
Anyways.... WHY don't you start a thread of one of those old time tent meetings??? I would love to participate in that..... You can pick the music..... and do the sermon. I would love to hear a sermon of yours... and some of your favourite hymns.
I think part of the problem is that most doctrine is INGRAINED in people because they were raised in it... and that makes it very difficult to correct false teaching. This is what happened in my own family.
Anyways.... WHY don't you start a thread of one of those old time tent meetings??? I would love to participate in that..... You can pick the music..... and do the sermon. I would love to hear a sermon of yours... and some of your favourite hymns.
Good morning, brothers and sisters;
Doctrine is not a bad word as some of you may have experienced in your personal Christian lives.
In the opening thread the 8 points that Major presented are indeed essential doctrine backed by Scripture.
By the responses that we all read seemed to go off in other areas based on our personal teachings and application. Are we to give homage just to any theologian or scholar and adopt their doctrine or based on their celebratory standing?
No. God has empowered us to discern sound preaching and teaching for ourselves.
Perhaps we all need to be reminded in our daily walk the essentials of being an effective Christian. A Christian who is guided by God and discipled needs to present the Gospel, and why we believe what we believe.
My earlier post may not align with the original topic but this is where God lovingly guides all of us back to better understanding, correction, gained knowledge and wisdom of who He is and His desire for a day to day relationship with Him.
A day to day relationship with Christ helps us walk more in obedience under good doctrine.
There are other Biblical essentials (why limit God?) and all belong to Him, His Word, but must equate to good doctrine.
As I posted earlier, knowing our essentials doctrine or belief (same thing) is a good start toward good apologetics and erroneous falsehood doctrine. This helps us from mixing good doctrine with false doctrine.
God bless you all.
Bob
Doctrine is not a bad word as some of you may have experienced in your personal Christian lives.
In the opening thread the 8 points that Major presented are indeed essential doctrine backed by Scripture.
By the responses that we all read seemed to go off in other areas based on our personal teachings and application. Are we to give homage just to any theologian or scholar and adopt their doctrine or based on their celebratory standing?
No. God has empowered us to discern sound preaching and teaching for ourselves.
Perhaps we all need to be reminded in our daily walk the essentials of being an effective Christian. A Christian who is guided by God and discipled needs to present the Gospel, and why we believe what we believe.
My earlier post may not align with the original topic but this is where God lovingly guides all of us back to better understanding, correction, gained knowledge and wisdom of who He is and His desire for a day to day relationship with Him.
A day to day relationship with Christ helps us walk more in obedience under good doctrine.
There are other Biblical essentials (why limit God?) and all belong to Him, His Word, but must equate to good doctrine.
As I posted earlier, knowing our essentials doctrine or belief (same thing) is a good start toward good apologetics and erroneous falsehood doctrine. This helps us from mixing good doctrine with false doctrine.
God bless you all.
Bob
Well.... It seems that this topic has run its course.
I have learned over the years and especially since my healing.... that DOCTRINE is indeed a BLESSED word... a GOOD word and a VERY IMPORTANT word. Doctrine protects our minds and hearts from the LIES of the enemy.
The purpose of doctrine is to bring the believer to the HEART of FATHER GOD. ( That is my opinion ).
If a doctrine leads a soul AWAY from the TRUTH of SCRIPTURE... it is a FALSE DOCTRINE.
If a doctrine attempts to make God so HOLY that HE cannot be approached... it is a FALSE DOCTRINE.
If a doctrine tries to ADD or TAKE away from what has already been WRITTEN.... it is a FALSE DOCTRINE.
I have learned the art of keeping my FAITH simple... and by that.... I mean... my whole-hearted desire is to simply PRAISE GOD for WHO HE IS. I am OK with the fact that there is so much I DO NOT KNOW.
I am careful to guard my heart.... I am learning to TRUST other Christians within these forums... and that is a good thing.
I have made the decision that this will be the last of my attempts to join in a debate type discussion.
Major ... You are my go-to man for questions regarding doctrine and I will continue to ask you things moving forward.
My reason for being in this place is to FELLOWSHIP and encourage others. I feel that this is what I am best suited for.
God bless everyone. ~Tenderly, In Awe of Him
I would like my final comment to be a positive one.
I have learned over the years and especially since my healing.... that DOCTRINE is indeed a BLESSED word... a GOOD word and a VERY IMPORTANT word. Doctrine protects our minds and hearts from the LIES of the enemy.
The purpose of doctrine is to bring the believer to the HEART of FATHER GOD. ( That is my opinion ).
If a doctrine leads a soul AWAY from the TRUTH of SCRIPTURE... it is a FALSE DOCTRINE.
If a doctrine attempts to make God so HOLY that HE cannot be approached... it is a FALSE DOCTRINE.
If a doctrine tries to ADD or TAKE away from what has already been WRITTEN.... it is a FALSE DOCTRINE.
I have learned the art of keeping my FAITH simple... and by that.... I mean... my whole-hearted desire is to simply PRAISE GOD for WHO HE IS. I am OK with the fact that there is so much I DO NOT KNOW.
I am careful to guard my heart.... I am learning to TRUST other Christians within these forums... and that is a good thing.
I have made the decision that this will be the last of my attempts to join in a debate type discussion.
Major ... You are my go-to man for questions regarding doctrine and I will continue to ask you things moving forward.
My reason for being in this place is to FELLOWSHIP and encourage others. I feel that this is what I am best suited for.
God bless everyone. ~Tenderly, In Awe of Him
Yes, I understand. Study for teaching and edifying others is necessary for those who teach. I was simply saying I avoid reading-in story and man made predictions onto the biblical text.