Bob.... Major is begging for money again!!!
Christian Doctine
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
Absolutely!!!!Bob.... Major is begging for money again!!!
I would recommend that you do something. Go to a Christian book store or on line and obtain two things........
1. "Through the Bible" with Dr. J. Vernon Magee.
2. The works of Dr. Oliver B. Green.
3. Bible commentary by Dr. John Walvoord.
4. A King James Bible or and ESV translation.
Now, I am not advocating a mans commentary over the Bible itself, but from what you are saying I would suggest that you read a Scripture, beginning in Genesis 1:1 and then read what those three Bible scholars say. They are the most fundamental, Biblically accurate men I know of.
Some good reasons here (above) for the difficulties in the organization`s public meetings. I would like to add a few also.
1. The increased costs of running an organization`s public meetings - wages of ministerial team, wages of staff members, buildings maintenace, insurances, etc etc
2. The increasing control of those in power behind the scenes.
3. The increasing responsibilities of running public meetings.
4. The increasing pressing put on the main minister. As one local minister in a nearby town said - `The people want me to be priest, prophet and evangelist. `
5. The greater expectations of the people for the meeting to conform to their diverse tastes - music, lighting, sermon, times, etc. etc.
6. The pressure of the focus on the public meeting emotionally controlling people- if you don`t go you are backsliding or not supporting the local team. etc.
1. The increased costs of running an organization`s public meetings - wages of ministerial team, wages of staff members, buildings maintenace, insurances, etc etc
2. The increasing control of those in power behind the scenes.
3. The increasing responsibilities of running public meetings.
4. The increasing pressing put on the main minister. As one local minister in a nearby town said - `The people want me to be priest, prophet and evangelist. `
5. The greater expectations of the people for the meeting to conform to their diverse tastes - music, lighting, sermon, times, etc. etc.
6. The pressure of the focus on the public meeting emotionally controlling people- if you don`t go you are backsliding or not supporting the local team. etc.
I can relate when it come to not having adequate doctrinal teachings. The Orthodox church in my area is a satellite location so the majority of the members don't live in the local community. Not even the priest, so there is no youth program or local community outreach because most members live an hour + away. They squeeze Sunday school and catecumin in Sunday before divine liturgy.
I was looking at my local Catholic parish and they have so much offerings in Sunday school, youth programs and bible study, community outreach, prayer services. I'm thinking I need to make a switch.
I was looking at my local Catholic parish and they have so much offerings in Sunday school, youth programs and bible study, community outreach, prayer services. I'm thinking I need to make a switch.
Marilyn....are you referring to Christian Doctrine (Focus of the thread) or church meetings.
If you are speaking to "Christian Doctrine" then for the life of me I have no clue what you are saying. I say that with due respect to you, and totally out of my ignorance.
Now if you are speaking to a Church meeting, then I will try to answer your comments based solely on my personal experiences.
1. Those items are all business related and have existed as long as there has been a Church. Whether we like it or not, the Church is a business. A business is an entity that supplies a service or materials to others. The increase of items and services that each person experiences is directly attributed to each church and things like the water bill, electric bill, salary for Pastor all have to be accounted for and paid.
2. I have never experienced this, but I will agree that in some churches it can and has been a problem. I will add that if the Pastor is Biblically sound and teaches correctly about power sharing, there should never be a problem over who is in control.
3. Again, I have never experienced this. If you are referring to business meetings in a church, the Pastor should be in charge and he can call on those he wants to interject information or answer questions asked.
4. That comes with the territory and is known by the Pastor before he accepts the position. Every pastor is an evangelist, teacher, preacher, priest and friend. He preaches the gospel, teaches the Word of God correctly, marries members, buries the dead, and holds the hands of those suffering and cries with those who are in pain.
5. "Music, lighting, sermon, times," are at the discretion of the Pastor of the individual church, however I found that the best results always came from incorporating the wants and needs of all the church members.
Things like the color of the carpets or padding of the pews or whether to build a new building always come from a "committee" assigned to make those decisions.
6. There is actually no pressure to control church members in a meeting. The people there are Christians, and They are there because they want to be there. There should never ever be any "pressure" from leadership that suggests that if you are not coming to the business meeting, or the Wednesday night services, you are backsliding or you are not really a church member at all can not and should not ever be uttered to anyone.
I am not sure this speakes to what you posted and if it does not please feel free to ignore it and or delete it.
Good morning, Marilyn;
I read your post carefully and will respond constructively. If what you shared are within a given Church, then 5 of the points are the "governance," "organization public meeting" or "operations" of this particular Church, or in general, however, this is not doctrinal.
Point 4 the priest said "`The people want me to be priest, prophet and evangelist" I don't know if this person is just venting or grumbling. No matter what the people want him to be, he should be discussing and praying with like ministers and seek what God says first or wants him to be in his calling.
In the other 5 points, as a basic example, the ministry of the board or committee takes care of the "governance," or "operations" of the Church. The spiritual leaders oversee, pray, support and step in when there are serious issues.
If a Church wide meeting is called, then one of the Board leaders would schedule it.
Since Christian Churches are autonomous (case by case the way a given Church may operate) the Christian Doctrine remains in Accord and One with God, His Word, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the Believer's Salvation.
Now there are many Churches, large and small that follow their own autonomy, for example, the Pastor may also be the gardener, janitor, while his wife does the books and a small group take care of the potlucks, play the piano, and a youth does the powerpoint.
God bless you, Marilyn.
Bob
LOL. ........Yes, at one time or another I was ....
"the gardener, janitor, while his wife does the books and a small group take care of the potlucks, play the piano, and a youth does the powerpoint."
Powerpoint??? What is that???? Just kidding.
True story about Dr. Jack Hyles. I am sure you remember him as at one time back in the 50-60's his church in Hammond Ind. had the largest Sunday School in the state.
Anyway, as he told it, he was 14 years old and felt the call of God to preach. He told his pastor who said, prepare a sermon and I will allow you to preach one Sunday morning. Well, the Sunday came and the Pastor introduced him and he stood at the Pulpit.
He stood there about 3-minutes without saying anything. The Pastor slide up next to him and asked him what he was waiting for. Dr. Hyles said, I am waiting for God to give me the words to say like He does for you every Sunday. The Pastor kind of laughed and said.....
Jack, go to the outline you prepared. Dr. Hyles then said, "OUTLINE? WHAT IS AN OURLINE"?
Morning Major,
Sorry I forgot the topic I was just reading the latest posts and many were about the Church meeting in general. Thus, I wrote concerning what it was like over here in OZ. There have been many changes since 1950`s when I was young till now. Over 70 years some of which doing public and private ministry in various denominations depending on where I was teaching or with my hubby. I think your experiences are related to the USA.
As to the topic - Sound Doctrine I have noted over those years that the Pentecostals have more and more received the doctrine of Dominionism. That is believing that we, yes, we, will take back dominion of the world and then when the Lord comes hand it over to Him. (really!) Any of that over in America in a great way?
Where is OZ?
I have not seen a lot of that theology. However, I have done a little work on it just to be informed. Dominion theology's two leading philosophies: are......
1. Christian Reconstructionism and
2. Kingdom Now theology.
Christian Reconstructionism is an intellectually high-minded worldview, most popular among the more conservative branches of Christian faith. Reconstructionism says that dominion will be achieved by each Christian excelling in his or her individual field or in other words, Christian artists taking dominion of the art world, Christian musicians taking dominion of the music world, Christian businessmen taking dominion of the business world, etc., until all systems and fields are “subdued”.
What is seen however here in the USA is Kingdom Now Theology. It is most popular among Charismatic and Pentecostal groups, and focuses on taking dominion of the earth by way of spiritual battle.
Kingdom Now adherents believe that long ago Satan stole the “keys of spiritual dominion” when he deceived Adam and Eve. Then, when Christ gave the “keys of the kingdom” to Peter in Matthew 16:19, it was a sign that dominion had been returned to man.
Now it is our job to “take back” what is rightfully ours – that is, to claim dominion over the earth and spiritually subdue it for Christ. Proponents of Kingdom Now theology believe that the capturing of this dominion includes having Christians in political office, plus a return of spiritual power, manifested by signs, miracles, and healing.
Some of those who are involved in this teaching are Rick Warren .....Jim Wallis’ social gospel .....and Tony Campolo and Brian McLaren’s emergent church are a few of the avenues through which this is being propagated.
The following list of some of the erroneous teachings in Kingdom-Now theology illustrate how dangerous this belief system is, yet it has tremendously pervaded the church today: Some of their false and un-biblical teachings are.........
Prophetic Scriptures are denied or fulfilled in 70 AD as is also the belief of Preterism.
The church is the new Israel which is replacement theology.
Armageddon an ongoing battle between the forces of light and darkness.
The Antichrist is a spirit, not an actual person.
We are already in the Tribulation, but at the same time, we are in the Millennium. It doesn’t get any stranger! It’s one or the other.
Instead of following traditional Bible prophecy, they follow “new revelations.”
Modern-day prophets must be obeyed and not judged for their inaccuracy.
They want to restore the Edenic nature even though Eden is where sin began.
Source..........“Kingdom-Now Theology” (Lighthouse Trails blog, March 6, 2007, http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=3295).
Very good there Major. Great detail for people to be aware of.
Oh and OZ is Au-stra-lia, with an Aussie accent. And not Judy Garland in the Wizard of OZ.
Did you seriously NOT know that???
I think/believe.... what is playing out in our modern world ( as in today ) is the consequence of exactly what you have listed.
The mass chaos alone is a huge red flag.
Perhaps God is dealing with the rebellious church.
See Revelation 13! Not all who claim to be Christian are Christian. These are those that will follow The Anti-christ because of signs and wonders.
The great majority of those in view in Revelation 13 are all lost people. Every left on the earth after the Rapture are lost.
But I agree 100 % with your comment. Consider today how many are always looking for the next miracle or sign.
That is actually a massive loss of faith in Jesus.
...
I agree!
IOW toleration at all costs.