Christian Doctine
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
I love all of your posts but.......I have to disagree with this one.
The theif on the cross did not go to hell because he was not baptized He went there because he did not accept Jesus as the Christ.
Now, remember, the other thief went to heaven to be with Jesus, but he was not baptized either.
You said.......
"I can't help but wonder what sins were remitted when Jesus was baptized. I thought he was sinless."
No sir! As God in the flesh Jesus was sinless and had no need of repentance or baptism!
Jesus’ baptism also showed that He identified with sinners. His baptism symbolized the sinners’ baptism into the righteousness of Christ, dying with Him and rising free from sin and able to walk in the newness of life. His perfect righteousness would fulfill all the requirements of the Law for sinners who could never hope to do so on their own.
BibleLover Sarcasm is difficult to express in writing, no?
Definitely going to put churchianity into my mental rolodex for later use
Hello cocoa;
I agree! As we approach a New Year. There are many things I had to change to better understand in Scripture. I always wondered the full meaning of Booths in the Old Testament and thought it only had one purpose during the Feast of Tabernacles.
I'm sorry to say but I thought these were only for vendors to provide food and drink to the Israelites. I learned there were many other uses for the Booths but more important of bringing together the people to celebrate their faith.
Bob
It is all about "growth" and being exposed to the literal Word of God which is the Bible.
Many times, and many people become so pleased in what they know....even if what they know is wrong, that they are unable to grow and learn.
One of the benefits of a Christian such as this one is the personal conversations with experienced and knowledgeable people that are available to you and others. We all can dialogue and ask questions and hear words tailored just for you, as ither Christians are aware of your situation and needs.
Proverbs 9:9
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser; teach a righteous man, and he will increase in learning.
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Sorry about the confusion, but I was referring to the repentant thief.
Ya know.......I thought that what was posted did not sound like something you would have said, "but" there it was in black and white.
Please Forgive me for jumping on you, but I am sure that you would have done the same thing!!!
You are a wonderful man and you are doing a really good job!
I guess I'm bringing this thread back to life... because I would like to see more posts about SOUND DOCTRINE... and what that looks like and perhaps does NOT look like.
I wonder... WHAT is the punishment for someone who DECEIVES the flock with FALSE DOCTRINE and profits from that?
Why is there not an outcry against such doctrines? and the teachers of them??
I wonder.
I understand that church is important... I also realize I do not attend a fellowship and quite honestly... I have no desire to do so because I am simply not convinced that churches are operating properly and biblically. ( at least in my city ). I don't have much to choose from... and so... to be HONEST... I am receiving so much MORE within the forums than I would at any church.
I keep hearing about the good old days.... HOW church used to be on FIRE for the LORD... and how music has gone done the tubes... and the list goes on. Too loud... too much of a performance... too many people.
What has happened to the CHURCH??? that I would state... I have NO desire to be part of it??
So many lies... so many bad attitudes ... arrogance... demeaning speech when addressing another.
WHERE is the CHURCH for those who NEED REDEMPTION? The type of church that is like a hospital where everyone understands the urgency of the one being wheeled in? Would Jesus go to your church?? or Would he be cast out ...forced to sit in the back pew?? Would He even be allowed to come in??
These are all just ponderings.... Questions that I have in my heart.
Do we forget how sinful we were? and still ARE??... on a daily basis... AND ... right up until the day we DIE.
Do we feel better and relieved that we are NOT like that person??
Do we dare to consider ourselves GOOD?
I have met those Christians who consider themselves GOOD.... and ironically.... I would not seek a drink of water from them.
These are the musings of DA SHEEP who has woken up WAY too early.
I want to hear about DOCTRINE.... about the CHURCH ( the healthy church... the BIBLICAL CHURCH ).
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I think part of the problem is the degree to which many churches are adopting customs from surrounding cultures. Recently I've observed more and more mainline denominations adopting the ungodly practices of the immoral society surrounding them. Even traditionally Bible believing churches such as Southern Baptist churches have done away with midweek and Sunday night services for the sake of convenience so the members will be able to watch televised sporting events, so on Sunday mornings they meet for Sunday School and worship services, and that's it for the week. The only Bible believing churches in my city that still hold the three traditional services and Sunday School each week are the Independent Fundamental Baptist churches. Maybe it's a sign of our times being the last days when people will have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.I guess I'm bringing this thread back to life... because I would like to see more posts about SOUND DOCTRINE... and what that looks like and perhaps does NOT look like.
I wonder... WHAT is the punishment for someone who DECEIVES the flock with FALSE DOCTRINE and profits from that?
Why is there not an outcry against such doctrines? and the teachers of them??
I wonder.
I understand that church is important... I also realize I do not attend a fellowship and quite honestly... I have no desire to do so because I am simply not convinced that churches are operating properly and biblically. ( at least in my city ). I don't have much to choose from... and so... to be HONEST... I am receiving so much MORE within the forums than I would at any church.
I keep hearing about the good old days.... HOW church used to be on FIRE for the LORD... and how music has gone done the tubes... and the list goes on. Too loud... too much of a performance... too many people.
What has happened to the CHURCH??? that I would state... I have NO desire to be part of it??
So many lies... so many bad attitudes ... arrogance... demeaning speech when addressing another.
WHERE is the CHURCH for those who NEED REDEMPTION? The type of church that is like a hospital where everyone understands the urgency of the one being wheeled in? Would Jesus go to your church?? or Would he be cast out ...forced to sit in the back pew?? Would He even be allowed to come in??
These are all just ponderings.... Questions that I have in my heart.
Do we forget how sinful we were? and still ARE??... on a daily basis... AND ... right up until the day we DIE.
Do we feel better and relieved that we are NOT like that person??
Do we dare to consider ourselves GOOD?
I have met those Christians who consider themselves GOOD.... and ironically.... I would not seek a drink of water from them.
These are the musings of DA SHEEP who has woken up WAY too early.
I want to hear about DOCTRINE.... about the CHURCH ( the healthy church... the BIBLICAL CHURCH ).
Good questions all. I will try to answer them for you.I guess I'm bringing this thread back to life... because I would like to see more posts about SOUND DOCTRINE... and what that looks like and perhaps does NOT look like.
I wonder... WHAT is the punishment for someone who DECEIVES the flock with FALSE DOCTRINE and profits from that?
Why is there not an outcry against such doctrines? and the teachers of them??
I wonder.
I understand that church is important... I also realize I do not attend a fellowship and quite honestly... I have no desire to do so because I am simply not convinced that churches are operating properly and biblically. ( at least in my city ). I don't have much to choose from... and so... to be HONEST... I am receiving so much MORE within the forums than I would at any church.
I keep hearing about the good old days.... HOW church used to be on FIRE for the LORD... and how music has gone done the tubes... and the list goes on. Too loud... too much of a performance... too many people.
What has happened to the CHURCH??? that I would state... I have NO desire to be part of it??
So many lies... so many bad attitudes ... arrogance... demeaning speech when addressing another.
WHERE is the CHURCH for those who NEED REDEMPTION? The type of church that is like a hospital where everyone understands the urgency of the one being wheeled in? Would Jesus go to your church?? or Would he be cast out ...forced to sit in the back pew?? Would He even be allowed to come in??
These are all just ponderings.... Questions that I have in my heart.
Do we forget how sinful we were? and still ARE??... on a daily basis... AND ... right up until the day we DIE.
Do we feel better and relieved that we are NOT like that person??
Do we dare to consider ourselves GOOD?
I have met those Christians who consider themselves GOOD.... and ironically.... I would not seek a drink of water from them.
These are the musings of DA SHEEP who has woken up WAY too early.
I want to hear about DOCTRINE.... about the CHURCH ( the healthy church... the BIBLICAL CHURCH ).
False teachers are themselves both deceived and blind. They are deceived and in the process they are deceiving others.
Jesus spoke of the blind leading the blind in Matthew 15:14 by saying .....
“Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit”.
Therefore both the false teacher and his followers will fall into the same pit. Jesus is thereby warning that false doctrines are capable of leading both the false teacher and his followers to destruction in hell.
You asked-
"Why is there not an outcry against such doctrines?"
I do not know if it "the" answer, but one of the reasons is that we like what we know even if what we know is wrong. We like for people to lie to us!
Isaiah 30:10.........
"who say to the seers, “Do not see,” and to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us what is right; speak to us smooth things, prophesy illusions,"
Another reason is that people have stopped reading the Bible. We (Church) has become lazy and depended on men to tell us what God has said. There is the problem. We all have seen over the years how men have fallen into the trap of "Liberalism". Liberalism in the minds of false teachers leads to allowing the flock to do things that are morally wrong and sin.
Because we (Church) has listened to these false teachers, we are fulling Biblical prophesy where in 2 Tim. 3:1-4 we see.......
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God".
Lie #1.....
God wants His children to be financially prosperous.
Lie #2.....
If you have enough faith, God will give you what you ask for.
Lie #3......
Do not speak out against sin or error because you might offend someone.
Lie #4......
Unity is more important that Bible doctrine.
Lie #5.......
It is OK for women to be deacons and Pastors. You are uniformed and old fashioned dif you disagree.
Lie #6......
Signs, wonders and miracles are evidences of being a true child of God.
Lie #7.....
If you are truly born again, you will speak in tongues and if you question the source of those who speak in tongues or God speaking in an audible voice to that person, you are guilty of blasphemy.
I can go on, but you get the picture. When men change the Word of God to meet the desires of their heart, Bible doctrine goes out the window.
Here is another opportunity to correct DA SHEEP.... HA.
What you have expressed is the EXACT reason I am so petrified to read scripture on my own for the sake of STUDY.
How many people are reading scripture and getting it wrong??? THEN passing that along?? I don't want to mis-understand it.
My little heart is so very GUARDED from people SPEAKING CHRISTIANITY into me. I pick ... and I pick. I guard my heart. I am not AFRAID to hurt or suffer... and so I have NO desire to take the easy way out and get my ears tickled.
I read scripture... but for PLEASURE.... the Psalms.... Proverbs...etc. I look scripture up... and I LISTEN to teachers I trust. I HEAR SCRIPTURE spoken to me. I indulge in the scripture that plainly tells us HOW we are to live. Those ones are EASY because JESUS said it... His disciples wrote it... and we just need to do it.
I think I have wrong thinking... I have NO problem admitting when I am wrong... I Love the LORD with all my heart... I love SCRIPTURE being read to me... spoken to me... sung to me... but I will NOT go into the Bible for the sake of STUDYING... because I don't have the brain capacity to UNDERSTAND the DEEP mysteries of God.
Maybe I opened a hornets nest. HA.
When you study look at commentary from trusted sources. I like Matthew Henry, Adam Clarke and for a modern touch David Guzik from Enduring word. Major is also a great resource for questions you may have, as are many others here as you well know. Don't be afraid to study GOD'S word. It is good to get deeper into it and gain a better understanding so you can grow even more in your faith. Asking questions is a good thing. Start by asking God to guide you in your study and to open your heart and mind to receive His word and grant you understanding.
I'm going to think about that. Maybe Bob or Major can lead me through a SUNDAY school lesson.... HA.
People make things SO difficult.... however.... I have been here long enough that I can no longer get away with playing dumb.
Honesty is ALWAYS where I shoot from... and honestly... I love my radio show preachers... like Charles Stanley..
John MacArthur... Adrian Rogers... I go to church three times a day. HA.
I know I am WRONG.... I KNOW it... I KNOW it. Big SIGH
The most common way that people read Scripture and "get it wrong" is that they don’t apply the proper methods to their study. I would recommend Kay Arthur's book How to Study Your Bible. This book is a very good guide to help you avoid the common study mistakes.
Don't be afraid to study the Bible for yourself. That's the only way to grow in the faith and grow closer to God in your Christian walk.
Good morning, In Awe of Him, BibleLover and Major;
The points you three brought up is something I'm dealing with right now. There is a Church in our community that is 25 years old and I'm going to be meeting with them for what is called a "town hall meeting."
They are a small independent Church. One of the original members is a long time leader that has tried to keep them together. This Church has had a history of Pastors and members come and go, alot of it due to division. Currently they don't have a Pastor except for an elderly helping Pastor, who doesn't want to be their permanent, full time Pastor.
During this meeting two questions will be the main theme; What is their Christian Doctrine? It's never been structured because of changes with Pastors. What is the vision the Lord has for this Church?
They are a nice group of people, "nice sheep without a Shepherd," but it may be wise to have this meeting to determine if they are only staying together just to do church, is there really a purpose or should they consider closing. Problem is they don't have a Paul or Timothy to help give Spiritual direction.
First, when Pastors come and go in a Church is not healthy. One of the effects is the doctrine becomes diluted and false teachings can make it's way in. Christians in the community are not foolish and can see this and would rather find a Church with a healthy structure and Pastor who can discern God's vision.
Major lists 7 true points that can tempt leaderless Churches because they have no sight of right or wrong, just whatever works to keep the Church doors open. This becomes disastrous.
A Church with a healthy structure enables one to grow in their faith. BibleLover makes a good point of Church gatherings beside the main worship service. As the world turns, many Churches never seem to be open except on Sundays.
Not just In Awe of Him, but all of us, continue to ask questions regarding our faith, Church, prayers and study with the answers pointing to Christ. I'm asking questions before this meeting with my mentors regarding this broken Church of 25 years.
Oh BOB.... that has got to be HARD.... WOW. I will be praying for WISDOM for you... I can't think of anyone BETTER to deal with a situation like this than you. Your humility will lead you.
For a "substantial" love offering, I will be glad to go with you. LOL!!!
Really.....If I were you, I would be blunt and ask those church members why they could not keep a pastor and what is the cause of division.
#2. What do you think about the Bible?
#3. How do you think division should be handled?
A small church actually has very little chance to hire a young pastor with a family. They almost universally revert to retired men who are on social security. So money is definitely a concern.
Many years ago, I was asked by a friend of mine to do a revival in Taft Fl. I was told that a long time deacon was used to running the church and my friend was having all kinds of problems.
I preached 6 straight nights on the "Renewing of the mind". About half way through the revival, several deacon came asked me.....
"Do you preach like this to your church?" To which I said ...........Every single Sunday!
You see, the division there was due to the fact that the Pastor was afraid to preach the Word of God because he did not want to confront the old deacon. I had laid the ground work every night and on the last night I was there, I said point blank, if YOU are the cause of division, get save tonight, or repent tonight or leave this church and go somewhere else where chaos is deserved.
When I gave the invitation, the entire congregation....(about 150) came down the isle and the deacon who was actually the problem was 1st to hug the pastor. It was one of the most moving events in my career.