Christianity and Zen

[Major]

You've failed to read my posts, no where did I say I was following Buddism, I was practicing Zen, two completely different things. No one "empties" their mind, they de clutter it. These days there's plenty to de clutter. Reading the scriptures alone does not do it for me, it's not magic. If that worked everyone would be doing it, prayer would replace depression medications and counseling.

I did read all of your posts my friend. I am saying clearly that ZEN is a practice/method of Buddhists.

You stated that you practice Zen, and I said that it is a part of Buddhism.

You stated that you Focus on personal experience, self-discovery, and direct realization and through that you have seen that It encourages you to look within yourself for enlightenment and that reading the Bible and prayer does not do that for you.

I am saying that as a human being, born with a sin nature, the only enlightenment that we can find is what we find in the Bible.

 

[Major]

Zen and Buddhism are not that different. Buddhism in a sense is a door into Zen. As a matter of fact there is such a thing called Zen Buddhism.
The 'clearing of the mind' so called and meditation in Zen is a practice of emptying the mind of words, concepts, logic etc., which ironically is the basis for the Christian faith, i.e. propositional truth. Our peace comes through knowing these truths Rom 5:1 (peace with God), acting upon them Phil 4:7 (peace of God), and knowing the Person Himself (Matt 11:28) and not by an impersonal human construct.
Oil and water don't mix.

Thank you bro....that is exactly what I have said. Well said.

 

[crossnote]

You stated that you Focus on personal experience, self-discovery, and direct realization and through that you have seen that It encourages you to look within yourself for enlightenment and that reading the Bible and prayer does not do that for you.

Yes, the Christian faith encourages one to look outside oneself to the crucified and the physically risen Christ for our peace and not be navel gazers.

 

[Major]

Yes, the Christian faith encourages one to look outside oneself to the crucified and the physically risen Christ for our peace and not be navel gazers.

Absolutely!

If we, me or anyone look inside of ourselves to find peace, all we will see is the ugly side of sin because of our sin nature.

Now, please do not misunderstand me. I am not saying that we can stop, take time to be introspective and contemplate our lives and try to find peace and quiet in a troubled time. However, without the forgivness of our sins we will never find true peace with God.

 

[forgiven61]

the only true peace is in CHRIST Zen goes against the Bible and its playing with fire

John 16:33



​

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

[forgiven61]

 

[In Awe of Him]

I'm curious what others thoughts are on using both in your life? Zen focusing on bringing enlightenment to ones self and decluttering ones mind in order to do so. And Christianity where the individual is enlightened by Gods word and living in such a manner.

Zen does not worship anything, so "no false Gods" doesn't apply here, neither would the Occult because the individual is not drawing from an outside spiritual force. Everything comes from within. I've seen books on Meditating on the Scriptures, so I don't feel there's any conflict here. If one were an actual Buddhist then I would see a conflict, but that doesn't apply here.

Good morning CapeCodder ... I went back and read your original post... and yet I am thinking that you are probably offended at those of us who have stated we are NOT on the side of such a practice.

I read all the posts by various members... and I feel everyone has spoken with love and concern. As Christians... we are getting railed upon by the many "spiritual practices" that claim to "bring us peace". It seems that gone are the days where we can live and let live. We are not allowed to stick to the TRUTH that GOD does not change with the times. We are called dinosaurs... "out of touch" and not with the program.

At one time when I would tell others I was a Christian... it was accepted without debate. Now... If I state I am a Christian... the world expects me to be a PROGRESSIVE CHRISTIAN that embraces the concept that the Bible was written during a specific time... and no longer applies to the world today.

In my opinion... the phrase... Progressive Christian is a term used for someone who does NOT believe the Bible is GOD BREATHED... therefore nil and void of any power.

I am sorry that you have not received a blessing for a practice that is obviously dear to your heart.

I do feel that people have spoken with kindness and love... myself included.

God bless you and May we ALL be open for correction of beliefs we have that are NOT biblical ( myself included ).

 

[crossnote]

At one time when I would tell others I was a Christian... it was accepted without debate. Now... If I state I am a Christian... the world expects me to be a PROGRESSIVE CHRISTIAN that embraces the concept that the Bible was written during a specific time... and no longer applies to the world today

 

[In Awe of Him]

HAHAHA crossnote . You broke my heart..... HAHAHA.

 

[Major]

LOL!

 

[yaweh98]

This is a very interesting discussion... and one that is most prevalent in this day and age.
We live in a world where anxiety and mental illnesses of all kinds are manifesting in all kinds of ways.
I have seen and heard many of these "practices" being hailed as HEALING and BENEFICIAL.

The problem with these practices ( in my opinion ) is that most if not all lead to SELF SUFFICIENCY... SELF DISCIPLINE and simply SELF.

"Calming the mind" so that one can live in peaceful state is something that we indeed need to learn. I call it shutting out the NOISE of the world. This is reached by TRUSTING GOD. Meditation in true form is contemplating and pondering on WHO GOD IS. The destination of meditation always NEEDS to remain "finding PEACE in GOD".

God has created such BEAUTY for His creation to enjoy. We have nature to behold in all its glory. Sitting at the lake front as I often do during the summer months is enough to CONVINCE me that GOD is MAGNIFICENT... GLORIOUS and MAJESTIC. Those thoughts are what brings me peace.

Anything other than this practice for a Christian is a dangerous and slippery slope ( in my opinion ).

I second you on this. You make some good points. While Zen practices may seem harmless on the surface, they can potentially lead to a focus on self-sufficiency and self-discipline that may not align with the Christian belief in relying on God for peace and guidance.

Philippians 4:6-7: "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."

It's important to remember that as Christians, our ultimate goal should be to seek peace and fulfillment in God, not in any external practice or philosophy.

 

[In Awe of Him]

It's important to remember that as Christians, our ultimate goal should be to seek peace and fulfillment in God, not in any external practice or philosophy.

You're going to fit right in.

 

[CapeCodder]

I second you on this. You make some good points. While Zen practices may seem harmless on the surface, they can potentially lead to a focus on self-sufficiency and self-discipline that may not align with the Christian belief in relying on God for peace and guidance.

What's wrong with self sufficiency? God is our savior, if he's anything more we wouldn't need doctors, lawyers, shrinks and physical therapists.

 

[BibleLover]

What's wrong with self sufficiency? God is our savior, if he's anything more we wouldn't need doctors, lawyers, shrinks and physical therapists.

Absolute self-sufficiency is an impossibility. God made us to be social beings who depend upon others to have a complete life. We are also, most importantly, created to depend upon God for completeness. The desire for absolute independence and self-sufficiency is rooted in the same hubris that Satan’s rebellion demonstrated.

 

[bobinfaith]

I'm curious what others thoughts are on using both in your life? Zen focusing on bringing enlightenment to ones self and decluttering ones mind in order to do so. And Christianity where the individual is enlightened by Gods word and living in such a manner. Zen does not worship anything, so "no false Gods" doesn't apply here, neither would the Occult because the individual is not drawing from an outside spiritual force. Everything comes from within. I've seen books on Meditating on the Scriptures, so I don't feel there's any conflict here. If one were an actual Buddhist then I would see a conflict, but that doesn't apply here.

Good morning, CapeCodder;

I wanted to check in with you. Since April 7th, or two months later, have you remained active with Zen?

Personally, after taking an insulin shot in the evenings I exercise at least 4 nights a week to work up a sweat which is good for my A1c. This also is in the mix of my daily prayers, singing/listening to praise and worship music like Day By Day - Godspell. After reading God's Word in the evening I am at peace and sleep well. When I wake I seek God's guidance to apply His Word in my daily interaction with PEOPLE.

In one of my interactions I encourage many middle and senior age men and women how important sleep is for their body, mind and spirit. Physically, I'm stronger for it. This helps me in my imperfect life.

This my regimen, it works for me and I take it serious.

I read the other posts and from what I discerned from these seasoned men and women of God, they are only expressing encouragement to you, not to seek their approval. Ultimately, it's your decision.

God bless you, brother.

 

[drequeen]

I think your mind and heart has to be right before you can even attempt to follow God. Whatever works for any given individual is fine in my book. Christianity is a form of Spirituality, and if Zen is a catalyst to help you relax and focus on your true goal (following God) then what's wrong with that? Your quotes mention Buddhism, I'm simply referring to Zen, you don't have to follow Buddhism to be a Zen practitioner. The focus is on meditation and intuition, nothing there that goes against Gods word.

I'll add that happiness is found within, all the bible reading and church visits will not provide you with happiness. That's found within whether by means of Zen or something more simple. It's a very challenging world and many seek forms of enlightenment that simple words cannot provide. Literal Scripture interpretations don't do it for me, neither do progressive Christian views. I wish Scriptures magically made me happy, they in fact don't.

Just wanted to throw my two cents in. The OP wrote
"I think your mind and heart has to be right before you can even attempt to follow God".
People have many different views on what it means to "follow God". My definition would be close to Luke 9:23:

And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me".

If we could somehow get our hearts and minds right, we wouldn't need God. When as unbelievers (not assuming the OP is an unbeliever) we feel we are living a "right" and moral life, we are as far away from God as we can possibly be.

 

[crossnote]

Personally, after taking an insulin shot in the evenings I exercise at least 4 nights a week to work up a sweat which is good for my A1c.

Bob, I had to look up A1c, I would guess mine to be borderline 5.7% as I love all things sweet.

In one of my interactions I encourage many middle and senior age men and women how important sleep is for their body, mind and spirit. Physically, I'm stronger for it. This helps me in my imperfect life.

Good sleep is a challenge for us with sleep apnea. zzzzz

 

[bobinfaith]

Bob, I had to look up A1c, I would guess mine to be borderline 5.7% as I love all things sweet.

Good sleep is a challenge for us with sleep apnea. zzzzz

Hello crossnote;

5.7 A1c is actually excellent. I learned that there is no across the board regarding A1c levels and it's based on the individual and his/her body. For my body 7.0 is a good A1c. If I go below my sugar drops and this can cause hypoglycemia.

I ate what I wanted on the cruise but was careful what and how much I ate. In the evening I took advantage of their gym and drank lots of water to keep myself hydrated. When I see my doctor next week I'll be up front with what I consumed.

Those with sleep apnea should speak with their doctor first before considering melatonin, for example. Take 1 or two chewables 5mg tablets, (no more than that) then stay awake by praying, reading, do a puzzle or a small project around the house and allow your brain to shut down. Don't spend time sitting or laying in bed watching TV or sitting at the computer which stimulates the brain and can be counterproductive to the melatonin.

My doctor was suggesting sleep apnea and we'll see my condition as I get older.

God bless you, crossnote.

 

[forgiven61]

5.7 A1c is actually excellent. I learned that there is no across the board regarding A1c levels and it's based on the individual and his/her body. For my body 7.0 is a good A1c. If I go below my sugar drops and this can cause hypoglycemia.

my last a1c was 7.3 i currently do the Mounjaro shot once a week take 2 glipizide 1 am and 1 pm 5mg . my blood sugar readings can be anywhere from 95-134 in the morning ,, i have took off roughly 13 lbs , i do have tendency to splurge once in a while.. i need better restraint evenings is my worst enemy after ten hours of work. workouts is good any type of work out is good .

i go to bed at 8:30 sh pm up by 4:30 am start work at 6 am off at 4:30pm 4 ten hour days most of the time ten hours on friday . for a while twice a week we was doing 58 hour work weeks 5 tens and 8 Saturday. good money but wears me out . come home study outline the morning message and way i go sunday preaching . yes times i wonder what sleep is .

i have buddy drives big truck some times he runs from 1 am to 8 am and pastor a church also. sunday night he leaves around 1-2 am gets in bed around 9 pm diabetic b.s high . and stubborn as a mo mule lol

 

[In Awe of Him]

Personally, after taking an insulin shot in the evenings I exercise at least 4 nights a week to work up a sweat which is good for my A1c. This also is in the mix of my daily prayers, singing/listening to praise and worship music like Day By Day - Godspell. After reading God's Word in the evening I am at peace and sleep well. When I wake I seek God's guidance to apply His Word in my daily interaction with PEOPLE.

What a beautiful daily routine Bob.