Communion/Eucharist/Lord's Supper.
- Thread starter calvin
- Start date
I am Catholic. Which means I am a Christian.
With all due respect, it looks like we're talking about two very different things. Let's try to stay on topic.
Eat thou not the bread of him that have an evil eye, neither desire his dainty meats; for as a man thinketh in his heart so is he: eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee. The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.
Proverbs 23: 6-8
Proverbs 23: 6-8
For some people milk causes vomiting...esp you drink too much. Perhaps it should be banned also.
Jesus drank wine!
Lanolin, you are making a law of spiritual bondage because some people have an alcohol problem. Would it not be better to deal with the alcoholism in the individual rather than put the whole body of Christ into bondage.
It is abundantly clear that Jesus was only talking about real alcoholic wine when he used it as an analogy for his blood, so we have no need to justify it. Rather you need to justify your position for
A) refusing fellowship with godly brothers and sisters who drink wine at communion,
B) for censuring alcohol because you don't like it
C) censuring it because a limited few can't cope with it.
I am not in denial about alcoholism, neither am I in denial about gluttony and obesity in the west. Therefore perhaps we should ban communion bread or wafers, celebratory meals, etc.
I take it you never were pregnant...http://www.babycenter.com/0_drinking-alcohol-during-pregnancy_3542.bc?page=2
Hmm..non alcoholic wine?? Maybe just a marketing ploy. What is sooo wrong with grape juice...? It is the original fruit of the vine! You mean, i have to wait several years for the wine to ferment before i drink it...? You think Jesus turned water into fermented wine? Lol.you know it takes several years for that wine to develop...his miracle at the wedding happened that day!!
They were probably so surprised theyd never had fresh wine before.
They were probably so surprised theyd never had fresh wine before.
Why are you so legalistic about this? Why so "shocked"? No one is talking about drinking. The discussion is about communion.
Jesus drank wine, and turned water into excellent wine.
Sorry Lanolin, but please stop and think a little before condemning alcohol, as you are completely out of touch with biblical history. You are letting personal prejudice dictate your belief system.
In its crudest terms, it is impossible to avoid making wine with grapes because the sugar automatically turns into alcohol plus CO2 gas, without any help from man. This can happen uncontrolled whilst on the vine, or in a heap of fallen fruit, or in the fruit bowl.
This is caused by the natural yeast bloom you can see on grape skins, plus the high percentage of sugar in grapes which makes it so wonderful for wine production.
These days we can buy grape juice, but that is a very recent possibility made possible by the addition of chemicals that kill the natural yeast, or by sterilisation processes.
God promised Israel vineyards when to entered the land. If such an idea was offensive to the spirit, such a promise is nonsense. The abundant wine produced would be for trade, but also as a part of their staple diet because water was often far too dangerously polluted to drink. Alcohol destroys germs.
Given the massive size of the grape harvest, unless there was a way to keep the fruit of the vine, the majority would just rot before the fruit could ever be eaten. The sugar content prevents any hope of keeping it as fresh fruit, and it could never be shipped as grapes or juice because it would immediately ferment. Turning it into alcohol was the most obvious solution for excellent long term preservation.
To deny this, is to deny what Jesus was teaching in the parable of the wineskins.
Matt9v17"Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out and the wineskins are ruined; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved."
After treading out the grapes, the fresh juice is put into wine skins and tied off.
Immediately, the juice starts to ferment because of the natural yeast. That fermentation makes alcohol and CO2 gas. The gas inflates the skin to bursting. If an old skin is used for making the new wine, exactly as Jesus said, the inflexible skin would burst and the wine be all lost.
This parable makes absolute nonsense if it is not alcohol that is being produced. The idea that it was mere grape juice is an impossibility, and total nonsense.
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This thread at the moment appears to linger around alcohol and wine; there are other important factors in the communion.
Actually, not only do some Anglican churches serve port wine, but after or rather since it has been consecrated, any left over after the service is generally consumed by the minister
makes one wonder...Oh and Lanolin, I nearly forgot...
I had a meal recently with some Asians, and just as you shared with us, they can't drink alcohol. One just goes silly rather quickly, the other breaks out in a redness of the face and is sickly for days.
I had never encountered this before.
Indeed there are, I wonder how many Churches provide gluten free bread or wafers. I've only had a wafer once, mostly it is diced bread.