Hi forgiven61
I did not say Catholics are close to anything. What I said was that Catholics openly admit that they do not do everything that the bible says and that they do follow man-made traditions.
CULTS--A Systematic Teaching
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
I did not say Catholics are close to anything. What I said was that Catholics openly admit that they do not do everything that the bible says and that they do follow man-made traditions.
Hi Major
I am reading your posts objectively. Therefore I am asking you to also read my responses objectively and lay all emotions aside.
You made the following statements:
“Therefore, a Christian cult will deny one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity while still claiming to be Christian.”
“When their teachings DO NOT MATCH what is found in the Bible, they are then considered a CULT.”
Example 1
For example, let us say that the churches below that you have mentioned previously have the following number of teachings that do not match the bible:
1. Jehovah’s Witness – 5 teachings do not match what is found in the bible
2. World Wide Church of God – 3 teachings do not match what is found in the bible
3. Seventh Day Adventists - 3 teachings do not match what is found in the bible
4. Catholic – 10 teachings do not match what is found in the bible
5. Baptist - 3 teachings do not match what is found in the bible
Will it be correct for me to say that that the first four churches are cults, but the Baptist church is not when it is also guilty of teaching some things that are not found in the bible?
In fact no one is able to name a church that teachings everything that is in the bible. No one has been able to name a church that does not add man-made traditions to their teachings.
Therefore this means that all churches are cults since you say that if a church’s teachings do not match what is found in the bible, they are then considered a cult.
Example 2
The people below have told the following number of lies
1. Person 1 – Told 5 lies
2. Person 2 – Told 3 lies
3. Person 3 – Told 3 lies
4. Person 4 – Told 10 lies
5. Me – Told 1 lie
Will it be correct for me to call the first four people liars and say that I am not a liar? Even if I only told one lie? The answer is no.
If I call others a liar, but not myself, it would mean that I am a hypocrite.
It is fine to point out erroneous teachings and state if someone or a church is teaching something that is false. At the same, you should be honest about your own church, that it too has teachings that are not included in the bible.
you information not just catholics is wrong
I do not know how to eliminate all emotions on any subject. However, trying to Put all emotions aside, it seems to me that you are going out of your way to prove something. Now the question must be......"What is that something"?
My statements above stand as printed and did not come just from my imagination. They are easily verified by doing a google Seach on the subject or simply reading the methodology of the Southern Baptist Convention which is also easily found if you so need it.
Now then.........Your 1st post of #19 in page you asked...........
"If a cult is one that denies one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity or adds to the bible, then it is reasonable to conclude that all churches are cults."
Our senior moderator, Robert answered your post in his #20.......
"Faith First, you cannot just dismiss the conclusion that all Christian Churches are cultic. What does God say about His Churches? I'm sure He would question all Christians about His command, that we are to pray for one another including the Pastor. When we don't pray, hold the Pastor and each others accountable in His Church, then we're all just as responsible for disobedience."
You see Faith......my original statement was based on the disposition that an organization would "systematically" make it a practice of teaching its members at least one doctrine that is not Biblical. Personally I do not know of any cult that teaches just ONE anti Biblical doctrine but instead MANY! That was statement of minimal error.
As we all can see.....that you are still fixated on the same question!!!
Now......if a man/woman says that they are a Christian and one day they hit their thumb with a hammer and utter the words....."G _ _ D_ _" it........is that person then a lost man because they broke one the commandments of God! Did that one action condemn them a a lost person? By YOUR thinking on a church who does not follow ALL the doctrines YOUR answer has to be YES.
Now is the Holy Spirit, YOUR authority convicts you and corrects you and you ask God for forgivness, are you still a lost person? NO!
YOU were never lost.....you just committed a sin and you were already forgiven.
Now, common sense and Bible theology dictates that some churches will make an error in teaching and when that is confronted by the correct authority, that church corrects its error just as did you when you were in rebellion.
That does not make that church a cult anymore that your action made you a lost sinner. Now if that church does not correct its heretical teachings, it may be excommunicated from its governing body because it continues in a SYSTAMATIC approach to heretical teachings just as would YOU if you continued to use God's name in vain when convicted by the Holy Spirit.
YOU SAID............(This is YOUR opinion, I never said this)
For example, let us say that the churches below that you have mentioned previously have the following number of teachings that do not match the bible:
1. Jehovah’s Witness – 5 teachings do not match what is found in the bible
2. World Wide Church of God – 3 teachings do not match what is found in the bible
3. Seventh Day Adventists - 3 teachings do not match what is found in the bible
4. Catholic – 10 teachings do not match what is found in the bible
5. Baptist - 3 teachings do not match what is found in the bible
MY answer is and was.........Then ALL of those examples THAT DID NOT CORRECT THEIR NONE BIBLICAL AND HERECTICAL TEACHINGS WERE THAN NOT BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS.
Then you gave another personal opinion in an effort to validate your thinking...........
Example 2
The people below have told the following number of lies
1. Person 1 – Told 5 lies
2. Person 2 – Told 3 lies
3. Person 3 – Told 3 lies
4. Person 4 – Told 10 lies
5. Me – Told 1 lie
Will it be correct for me to call the first four people liars and say that I am not a liar? Even if I only told one lie? The answer is no.
Your answer is incorrect!!! "ALL MEN ARE LIARS!
Is one lie any worse than 5. NO. Is the man who told 5 lies worse than the man who told 1. NO. ALL are guilty.
Psalm 116:10–11 says, .....
“I believed, therefore have I spoken: I was greatly afflicted: I said in my haste, ‘All men are liars’”
The statement by David was hyperbolic, declared by a panicked man when feeling overwhelmed. IMHO, that is where your are coming from.
Romans 3:23.........
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,".
We can picture man’s efforts to attain righteousness as a group of people trying to jump a chasm. Some get a running start; some try to pole vault; others flap their arms on the way across—but none of them reach the other side. It doesn’t matter if they fall short by two inches, two yards, or two miles—they all plunge downward. In a similar way, all sins are equal to God; it doesn’t really matter how short we fall. We all fall. In that way.........1 lie is a bad as 500 lies so your example is actually mute.
The real answer is........WHEN I SIN, do I confess it to God when convicted and then get back on the right road of fellowship with Him!
Now......as you said, and not being emotional about this.......
does it seem to you that you are trying to make it appear that I am being hypocritical in my comments of cults??????
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Hello Faith First;
I have been following this thread closely (as I do all posts) and commend you for asking these questions. I monitor the posts throughout Christian Forum Site and my concern is when the posts seem to go around in circles with no progress in learning, especially when the answers are clearly posted, then I must defend Christian apologetics when and where it is needed.
These questions you are asking require discipleship (student and follower of Jesus) in order to receive the answers. We can arrive at disagreeing but when we dismiss the answers and continue to circle back the same question or comments, this is not constructive fellowship.
Major, others and myself have provided these answers based on Theological Truth to the Christian faith. I know these members. Many of them are seasoned students of the Bible, and have received years of disciplined teaching from seasoned ministers.
You have been a member for 1 1/2 years and I thank God each day for you, sister. I do desire to go beyond just being a fellow member and help you grow in your learning and personal walk with Christ. Please go back and carefully re-read the posts.
As I read the posts in this thread the others are answering your questions. When you receive what is being posted to you, please listen to what you are reading. I'm qualified to say this because I have failed so many times in my Christian journey and have had to learn many lessons in my studies. It's been 56 years since I was saved and am still a student, listening and learning for the rest of my days.
Prayerfully think about what I am saying, sister.
God bless you, Faith First, and your family in Johannesburg.
Well said.
here's the problem with your post you limp every church in the same box. NOT so as its been pointed out there is no perfect church. how ever if you think you go to one. news flash it wont be that way long because your there.
Major mentioned the southern Baptist they have a lot of sound doctrine preachers.. but see its not about the southern Baptist or any other denomination. its about Jesus Christ and him crucified the Church is full of imperfect people trying to serve a perfect savior.
a bible believing church is not a cult . your insulting the Body of Christ . .
So, you accuse me of being wrong without a proper reason.
All churches claim to be bible believing.
Yes, there is no perfect. But why has Major condemned other churches as cults, but not others?
According to Major’s opinion, a cult is a church that has teachings that do not match what is found in the Bible.
I am applying his definition to all churches, and not being bias and applying his definition to a few churches.
I have hopped around different churches over the years, but grew up in the Methodist church. I have already mentioned two non-biblical teachings of the Methodist church already in a previous post.
I also look at the errors of my church. I am not bias and do not only look at the errors of other churches and condemn others, but not my own.
I have applied Major's personal definition of what a cult is to all churches, but it looks like he does not want to apply it to his own church.
I do not have an issue if you mention any other non-biblical errors of Methodist, but also be fair and acknowledge the non-biblical errors of your own church.
I also look at the errors of my church. I am not bias and do not only look at the errors of other churches and condemn others, but not my own.
I have applied Major's personal definition of what a cult is to all churches, but it looks like he does not want to apply it to his own church.
I do not have an issue if you mention any other non-biblical errors of Methodist, but also be fair and acknowledge the non-biblical errors of your own church.
Hi bobinfaith
Thank you for your post.
Things do go around in circles, when there is pride. It is easy to condemn others, but it is not easy to look at our own faults.
It is easy to look at the faults of other churches, but not look at the faults of our churches.
All churches include teaches which are not in the bible, however, not every church has the same non-biblical teachings. Therefore why has Major condemned some churches as cults, but not others?
I went to check the definition of cult and got the following: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult
Therefore Major made up a definition of what a cult is and then he decided to pick on a few churches and applied his definition on them.
I took his personal opinion and applied to all churches.
However, looking at the actual definition of a cult I am still correct in saying that all churches are cult, since the definition of a cult does include the following:
2. a great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (Christians are devoted to Jesus)
3. a system of religious beliefs and ritual (Churches have religious beliefs and rituals)
The definition also includes the following:
1. a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (Whether a religion is unorthodox or spurious depends on someone’s opinion)
I wanted to also add that the idea of whether something is a fundamental truth or not depends on the individual’s personal opinion. I say this because the bible says that all scripture is inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16). The bible does not specify which portion of scripture is a fundamental truth and which one is not.
I recall in another post that you suggested that I have an appointment with a church pastor.
I have had meetings with 3 different pastors from 3 different churches on different occasions. Perhaps others have had a beneficial experience, but the three experiences have made me distrust pastors even more. The discussions were based on different topics and they could not tell me where they could find their beliefs in the bible. Strangely they all concluded with the same statement. They all told me that they were pastors for a long time and that I was young and who was I to question the beliefs of older people.
I think the word cult seems to have different meanings on different dictionaries and web sites. It’s a difficult word to define but, digging a little deeper we can see how a destructive cult operates in how they will use undue influence which is someone of higher status who can use power to gain an advantage over others who is in a weaker position, thereby impairing their consent as they are unable to freely exercise their independent will, which may not be in their best interest.
Usually the cult leaders are those who are able to persuade other weaker people because of this elevated status for their own personal gain at the expense of others.
Usually the cult leaders are those who are able to persuade other weaker people because of this elevated status for their own personal gain at the expense of others.
describe the perfect theology
Hello sister;
I appreciate all your convictions that you have shared and where you stand. I want to encourage you.
You keep searching!
You'll be in my prayers, Faith First, that the Lord will guide and bless you and your family, immensely!
God bless you and Merry Christmas!
it dont matter there are those even if they knew they was wrong. would still be right and there are those still in left field trying find home plate
I have heard it said, and indeed, been a victim myself of joining a cult through people we already trust.
I mean, when we see others we trust seemingly happy and doing well we naturally are inclined to seek out what they do.
We become inspired so to speak of their wonderful aura or great things they have done or the potential of what we could become.They persuade us or recruit us with ways in which make us feel good.
I wonder how many people came to Christ by just feeling good?
The Truth is not a feeling folks, don’t fall for it.
Good informative topic. This is tied in with the “self help” movement also.
I mean, when we see others we trust seemingly happy and doing well we naturally are inclined to seek out what they do.
We become inspired so to speak of their wonderful aura or great things they have done or the potential of what we could become.They persuade us or recruit us with ways in which make us feel good.
I wonder how many people came to Christ by just feeling good?
The Truth is not a feeling folks, don’t fall for it.
Good informative topic. This is tied in with the “self help” movement also.
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Just so that we are all on the same page and to clear up any misunderstandings, allow me to post what is said that a "Cult " is and that is the definition I used..........
"The specific Christian definition of a cult is “a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of biblical truths.” Common teachings of cults. The two most common teachings of cults are that Jesus is not God and that salvation is not by faith alone. Both of these teachings oppose what the Bible teaches clearly."
Source is from ......https://bibleask.org/whats-definition-cult/#:~:text=Definition.
I wanted to make sure no one thought that I made up a definition as was suggested and then applied my own interpretation.
Now, it was stated by "Faith first" in post #71 that...........
"Therefore why has Major condemned some churches as cults, but not others?"
Now I do not have the memory I used to have so I went back and looked over the posts. IMO....I do not see any "condemning".
I do see where the actual, factual and easy to find out practices of the Cults I listed are actually posted.
That is NOT condemning them but is only exposing and informing. BIG DIFFERENCE! Any thinking person can be convicted by what they read.
Now.........for the question posed as........."Do ALL Christian churches teach Bible doctrine"?
Again (x3) that is an absoltely impossible question to answer. IS every single person YOU know living a Christian life?
Is every single church following Bible doctrine.????
That is actually that is a "DEFLECTIVE" question done to take the emphasis off of the subject. The subject is CULTS and is identified by those who systematically (Purposefully) change or add to the Word of God!
My answer is clearly...........
"YES- IF it a Christian Bible believing church". Every Christian church has a Creed to live by. THAT is what classifies them as a Christian. Those churches work to follow Bible doctrine and teach truth that is only found in the Bible.
Now it must be noted that not all churches who say that they are Christian are in fact Bible Christian churches.
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Ok.I see yes, I get your point. I was addressing the previous poster.
As an update on "Scientology Cult"!
Scientology leader David Miscavige is "nowhere to be found" as prosecutors attempt to serve the 62-year-old with a federal child trafficking lawsuit that names him as a defendant.
Source: The Tampa Bay Times.