In answer to your question about habitation, no, I hadn't noticed that. Interesting point.
Also, welcome to the forum agua. Nice wave picture for your avatar. Reminds me of boogie boarding as a kid when I lived in Hawaii during the mid 70's.
Days Of Noah
- Thread starter dUmPsTeR
- Start date
In answer to your question about habitation, no, I hadn't noticed that. Interesting point.
Also, welcome to the forum agua. Nice wave picture for your avatar. Reminds me of boogie boarding as a kid when I lived in Hawaii during the mid 70's.
1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Water still saves us. And few were saved.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Water still saves us. And few were saved.
Are you saying that salvation is by baptism?
Do you think that Satan manages to steal the majority of souls from the grasp of the lord?
The apostles & Jesus said:
Mark 16:16 "He that believeth AND IS baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord."
Jesus said:
Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
Mark 16:16 "He that believeth AND IS baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord."
Jesus said:
Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
What a great conversationist.
Acts 22:16. hmm again interesting that you have bolded "wash away thy sins" at the expense of "calling on the name of the Lord." who would want to push the Saviour into the shadows?
So who is it who finds the 'wide' gate and who brings forth bad fruit? Is it not the false prophet, the one of whom Jesus will say "I never knew you?"
It troubles me greatly when I see Jesus being sidelined in favour of things of little actual importance.
No mention at all about Baptism but believing in Jesus features in a big way.
Interesting that Mark 16:16 does not say anything about not being baptized...no, the focus is on faith in Jesus not faith in water.
Acts 22:16. hmm again interesting that you have bolded "wash away thy sins" at the expense of "calling on the name of the Lord." who would want to push the Saviour into the shadows?
Context is ever so important don't you agree?.
So who is it who finds the 'wide' gate and who brings forth bad fruit? Is it not the false prophet, the one of whom Jesus will say "I never knew you?"
It troubles me greatly when I see Jesus being sidelined in favour of things of little actual importance.
Ahh those silly silly Jews again. Stumbling over the spiritual in favour of the physical.
No mention at all about Baptism but believing in Jesus features in a big way.
Abdicate I think you're right. Ther Baptism in 1 Peter 3 gives us a good conscience towards God because of the Resurrection of Jesus.
1Pe 3:21-22 KJV The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (22) Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
I wonder why Peter said "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" here and not " by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ" ? I suppose it might mean that we get the good conscience because we have been raised/reborn as a part of Jesus Body and we basically inherit it what do you think ?
Rom 6:3-11 KJV Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: (6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (7) For he that is dead is freed from sin. (8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: (9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. (10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. (11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Another interesting facet of this....
In the days of Enosh - the people began to "Call upon" the name of the Lord.... <--
This is the typical translation you see....
And... so many people take this as a positive thing.... That people are turning to the Lord... but, that's not what the scripture actually says was happening....
It really means... The people began to Call the Name of the Lord upon things - AKA to PROFANE the name of the Lord.... To apply the Name of the Lord to their idols and to the things they worshiped... You will see an example of this in Judges 17-18.
I find it amazing that when you look at the people who reject Christianity because it's some old, dusty, illogical religion that has no bearing on today's society - what they replace it with.... By and large - the people who reject Jesus on that basis typically assemble a gigantic mishmash of Even older, even more illogical idolatry... There's nothing "New" about the New Age....
In the days of Enosh - the people began to "Call upon" the name of the Lord.... <--
This is the typical translation you see....
And... so many people take this as a positive thing.... That people are turning to the Lord... but, that's not what the scripture actually says was happening....
It really means... The people began to Call the Name of the Lord upon things - AKA to PROFANE the name of the Lord.... To apply the Name of the Lord to their idols and to the things they worshiped... You will see an example of this in Judges 17-18.
I find it amazing that when you look at the people who reject Christianity because it's some old, dusty, illogical religion that has no bearing on today's society - what they replace it with.... By and large - the people who reject Jesus on that basis typically assemble a gigantic mishmash of Even older, even more illogical idolatry... There's nothing "New" about the New Age....
If you remove the parenthesis it may shed some more light:
1 Peter 3:21-22 (KJV)
The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
1 Peter 3:21-22 (KJV)
The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (...) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
To me it speaks of the need for Him to rise from the dead so as to have power even over death, which if He had not raised from the dead, we would not, nor could not be saved, as He'd still be dead...
No. Baptism only gets one wet.
Yes. He convinces people that they are religious, baptized and belong to a church.
I am going to have to disagree with you on the comment of ...
"The people began to Call the Name of the Lord upon things - AKA to PROFANE the name of the Lord.... To apply the Name of the Lord to their idols and to the things they worshiped."
Genesis 4:26 actually says.....
English Revised Version
"And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enosh: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD."
American Standard Version
"And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enosh. Then began men to call upon the name of Jehovah."
King James Bible
"And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD."
It has been my understanding that the verse in Gen. 4:26 refers to a testimony that the religious worship of the community of faith was organized for their public worship of God together.
As you can see, the phrase ......
"The people began to Call the Name of the Lord upon things - AKA to PROFANE the name of the Lord....
is not there.
Dr. John Gill says.........
Now, to give credit to your thought, the Jews give a very different sense of these words; the Targum of Onkelos is,"then in his days the children of men ceased from praying in the name of the Lord;''and the Targum of Jonathan is,"this was the age, in the days of which they began to err, and they made themselves idols, and surnamed their idols by the name of the Word of the Lord;''with which agrees the note of Jarchi,"then they began to call the names of men, and the names of herbs, by the name of the blessed God, to make idols of them:''and some of them say, particularly Maimonides (r), that Enos himself erred, and fell into idolatry, and was the first inventor of images, by the mediation of which men prayed to God: but all this seems to be without foundation, and injurious to the character of this antediluvian patriarch; nor does it appear that idolatry obtained in the posterity of Seth, or among the people of God so early; nor is such an account agreeable to the history which Moses is giving of the family of Seth, in opposition to that of Cain; wherefore one or other of the former senses is best.
Matthew Henry said......
" The worshippers of God began to do more in religion; some, by an open profession of true religion, protested against the wickedness of the world around. The worse others are, the better we should be, and the more zealous. Then began the distinction between professors and profane, which has been kept up ever since, and will be, while the world stands."
Calvin,
I do not "push into the shadows" calling on the name of The Lord, rather was emphasizing using that baptism (according to the scripture) is when our sins are washed away.
I'll be glad to emphasize The Lord & HIS NAME.
Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
When it was said to "CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD" in baptism, that's was in obedience to Math. 28:19 "baptizing them IN THE NAME"...
That's why the apostles & the early church obeyed Jesus' command, by baptizing IN THE NAME of Jesus. Note the following references:
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 8:16 "For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized IN THE NAME of the Lord Jesus."
Acts 10:48 "And he commanded them to be baptized IN THE NAME of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
I think that pretty much takes Jesus out of the shadows.
However, refusing to be baptized and baptize IN HIS NAME is really pushing our Savior into the shadows.
I do not "push into the shadows" calling on the name of The Lord, rather was emphasizing using that baptism (according to the scripture) is when our sins are washed away.
I'll be glad to emphasize The Lord & HIS NAME.
Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
When it was said to "CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD" in baptism, that's was in obedience to Math. 28:19 "baptizing them IN THE NAME"...
That's why the apostles & the early church obeyed Jesus' command, by baptizing IN THE NAME of Jesus. Note the following references:
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 8:16 "For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized IN THE NAME of the Lord Jesus."
Acts 10:48 "And he commanded them to be baptized IN THE NAME of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
I think that pretty much takes Jesus out of the shadows.
However, refusing to be baptized and baptize IN HIS NAME is really pushing our Savior into the shadows.
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Well.. I noticed that if you look in 10 different translations - you get 10 different translations - most of which hover around the KJV... and if you look in 10 different commentaries - you get 10 MORE different explanations.
You have to go back to the original Hebrew...
The Hebrew makes it clear that the word is "to impose a name upon a thing or person"....
Not to cry out to....
They were Calling YHWH upon things - not crying out to YHWH.... Look at Judges 17 and 18 for how they did this...
Ironically enough.... As in the days of Noah, same for Today..... where various "Religious organizations" take pride in putting the name of God upon whatever current flavor of the month as a way to give it some "Official" status....
Now... What's behind the idea that people started preaching FOR YHWH during this time? The hint is in Dr. John Gill's statement - you can see he is obviously an advocate of the "Line of Seth" theory of "Nephilim" - espousing the idea that the Sons of Cain married the Daughters of Seth...
So... Since his position is that ALL the children of Seth were Holy - he then must reject the position that SOME of Seth's posterity introduced Idolatry.... and so he rejects the Hebrew sages commentary because it is contrary to his idea that ALL of the line of Seth were Holy men (Which they were clearly not).... I get that this is the predominate idea taught in Seminaries... but it's not what the Scripture says.... It just is a lot easier to explain to "Educated folk" so you don't sound like a tin-foil hat wearing nut when you talk about Angels and Women breeding .....
but.. The scripture says what it says... The "daughters of Men" in is "bath al Adam" - Daughters of ADAM...
And... If all the children of Seth were Holy - why would God have killed them all in a flood?
I couldn't and wouldn't get into a debate about what the Hebrew actually says. I just can't get this brain of mine wrapped around those hieroglyphic style squiggles.
I just trust (with qualification) the translators. But.....
I also like to compare those with the Septuagint.
The Septuagint uses a different base text source for translation than does the Kjv (even the Niv) etc.
Septuagint Gen 4:24 "And to Seth was born a son. And he named his name Enos. This one hoped to call upon the name of the Lord'.
ἐπικαλέομαι here translated as "hoped to" followed by ἐπικαλέομαι translated as "call upon the name of" seems to make it clear that the context supports the idea of the plain flow of English as is used in the Kjv and derivatives.
ἐπικαλέομαι taken on its own could mean 'used the name of the Lord' profanely or in an idolatrous way, but not if taken in context.
The wider context going on to Gen 6 also supports the idea of (some) men turning to the Lord, rather than (some) men scandalizing His name.
IMO.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
If baptism merely got one wet, millions of Christians wouldn't do it.
Let's respect all Christians in their beliefs.
God bless you and your belief!
As for me I will continue to believe in Romans 10:9............
"That if thou shalt confess with thou thy mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and shall believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead....thou shalt be saved".
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
Boy, it would be SO nice to see doctrinal differences treated a little more respectfully on this forum. It's like people are afraid respect would be tantamount to agreement.
I think Batism is a very important witness of our faith and obedience.