Days Of Noah

I think Batism is a very important witness of our faith and obedience.
I was baptized as a baby. You wouldn't want to use my life as any sort of witness of faith or obedience.
Later as an adult I was baptized (dunked) as an expression of faith and obedience.
Still later on in life I have come to understand that Baptism is about faith but not obedience as such.
Hint:
John's baptism is a baptism of repentance.
Jesus' baptism was a baptism of repentance.
Christian baptism is or should be a baptism of death and regeneration or resurrection promise.
Rom 6:3. Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4. We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

Jesus has already taken the waters of John's baptism on our behalf.
That is why He was baptized, not as an observance of ceremonial washing prior to consecration for priestly service as some think. Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek not Aaron and as such needed no ceremonial consecration.
 
God bless you and your belief!

As for me I will continue to believe in Romans 10:9............
"That if thou shalt confess with thou thy mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and shall believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead....thou shalt be saved".

The Roman church, was Already saved. Paul was not telling how to be saved, because they already knew how to be saved; rather he was quoting an Old Testament verse (Note verse 8).

Romans 10:8 "BUT WHAT SAITH it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"
Deuteronomy 30:14 "But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."

Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of The Lord."

You CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD in baptism, buy being baptized in his name.

It takes BOTH, belief John 3:16 AND BAPTISM Mark 16:16.

It's not a choice, it's both; we don't get to custom order our salvation.

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
NOTICE: the devils even BELIEVE. But they are obviously NOT saved.

Many modern day Christians do everything in the name of Jesus, but they refuse baptism in HIS NAME. AMAZING
Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
 
The Roman church, was Already saved. Paul was not telling how to be saved, because they already knew how to be saved; rather he was quoting an Old Testament verse (Note verse 8).

Romans 10:8 "BUT WHAT SAITH it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"
Deuteronomy 30:14 "But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."

Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of The Lord."

You CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD in baptism, buy being baptized in his name.

It takes BOTH, belief John 3:16 AND BAPTISM Mark 16:16.

It's not a choice, it's both; we don't get to custom order our salvation.

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
NOTICE: the devils even BELIEVE. But they are obviously NOT saved.

Many modern day Christians do everything in the name of Jesus, but they refuse baptism in HIS NAME. AMAZING
Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Might I respectfully suggest that you broaden your studies to include Rom 10:5.
It is, or it should be clear that Paul was contrasting the law with faith. He was clearly not quoting from Deut 30 which does not speak of descending to the abyss to bring anybody up. It does talk about looking overseas (v13) which thing Paul does not mention at all.
 
As I see it baptism, and in my estimation all seven sacraments, are sort of ordinary miracles. They are acts of God ordained through the New Covenant. In the case of baptism, it has been long held that anyone, even a non-christian can be baptized. In that case it is an act of God performed through the rite.

I do believe also that one's desire to be baptized is sufficient and that one could be invisibly baptized. But I think it is incorrect to assert that it is optional or symbolic.
 
Might I respectfully suggest that you broaden your studies to include Rom 10:5.
It is, or it should be clear that Paul was contrasting the law with faith. He was clearly not quoting from Deut 30 which does not speak of descending to the abyss to bring anybody up. It does talk about looking overseas (v13) which thing Paul does not mention at all.

Agreed!
 
As I see it baptism, and in my estimation all seven sacraments, are sort of ordinary miracles. They are acts of God ordained through the New Covenant. In the case of baptism, it has been long held that anyone, even a non-christian can be baptized. In that case it is an act of God performed through the rite.

I do believe also that one's desire to be baptized is sufficient and that one could be invisibly baptized. But I think it is incorrect to assert that it is optional or symbolic.

IMO every single person who accepts the Lord Jesus as their Saviour should follow that choice by being baptized. It is an act of "obedience" not one of salvation.
 
The Roman church, was Already saved. Paul was not telling how to be saved, because they already knew how to be saved; rather he was quoting an Old Testament verse (Note verse 8).

Romans 10:8 "BUT WHAT SAITH it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"
Deuteronomy 30:14 "But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."

Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of The Lord."

You CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD in baptism, buy being baptized in his name.

It takes BOTH, belief John 3:16 AND BAPTISM Mark 16:16.

It's not a choice, it's both; we don't get to custom order our salvation.

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
NOTICE: the devils even BELIEVE. But they are obviously NOT saved.

Many modern day Christians do everything in the name of Jesus, but they refuse baptism in HIS NAME. AMAZING
Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

I have to respectfully disagree with you my friend. Baptism is an important step of obedience for a Christian, but one must adamantly reject baptism as being required for salvation. As I said, I believe that each and every Christian should be water baptized by immersion. Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection.

Rom. 6:3-4 says........
“Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

The action of being immersed in the water illustrates dying and being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ’s resurrection.

Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in order to make it sufficient for salvation.

Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a requirement for salvation. However, since the Bible so clearly tells us that salvation is received by faith alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5), there must be a different interpretation of those verses.

Scripture does not contradict Scripture. In Bible times, a person who converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe. So, in the minds of the apostles and early disciples, the idea of an un-baptized believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not have true faith.

If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)?
 
Well.. I noticed that if you look in 10 different translations - you get 10 different translations - most of which hover around the KJV... and if you look in 10 different commentaries - you get 10 MORE different explanations.

You have to go back to the original Hebrew...
The Hebrew makes it clear that the word is "to impose a name upon a thing or person"....
Not to cry out to....

They were Calling YHWH upon things - not crying out to YHWH.... Look at Judges 17 and 18 for how they did this...

Ironically enough.... As in the days of Noah, same for Today..... where various "Religious organizations" take pride in putting the name of God upon whatever current flavor of the month as a way to give it some "Official" status....

Now... What's behind the idea that people started preaching FOR YHWH during this time? The hint is in Dr. John Gill's statement - you can see he is obviously an advocate of the "Line of Seth" theory of "Nephilim" - espousing the idea that the Sons of Cain married the Daughters of Seth...

So... Since his position is that ALL the children of Seth were Holy - he then must reject the position that SOME of Seth's posterity introduced Idolatry.... and so he rejects the Hebrew sages commentary because it is contrary to his idea that ALL of the line of Seth were Holy men (Which they were clearly not).... I get that this is the predominate idea taught in Seminaries... but it's not what the Scripture says.... It just is a lot easier to explain to "Educated folk" so you don't sound like a tin-foil hat wearing nut when you talk about Angels and Women breeding .....

but.. The scripture says what it says... The "daughters of Men" in is "bath al Adam" - Daughters of ADAM...

And... If all the children of Seth were Holy - why would God have killed them all in a flood?

I hate to even discuss the Nephilim theory as it always leads to a heated discussion. I will say however that I agree with you that fallen angels (demons) did not have sexual relations with human women.

As for ALL of Seth's children being holy, we know from the Scriptures that is not the case.

Genesis 6:5
"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually".

It appears that the intermarrying of the line of Cain with the line of Seth corrupted all men totally. We know that to be the case because after 120 years of Noah preaching and the testimony of the Ark, only 8 people believed him and were saved.

None of this however goes to the point that the idol worship in Judges 17-18 is based upon Genesis 4:26 and "then men began to call upon the name of the Lord". At least that is my opinion. You are welcome to disagree and continue this but there is really nothing else I can say about it. It is what it is.
 
If baptism merely got one wet, millions of Christians wouldn't do it.

Let's respect all Christians in their beliefs.

I did not say that a Christian should not be baptized. THEY SHOULD! Upon believing the gospel of the Lord Jesus and accepting Him by faith for the forgiveness of sins, every single person should follow in believers baptism.

All I have said my dear friend is that being baptized does not save anyone. If you want to say it is an act of confirmation, OK with me. It is in my opinion and I have one just as you do, it is an act of obedience to God's command. If you do not agree then that is fine with me as well.

If you will just think about this logically, how many people do you think accepted Christ on the battlefield and then lost their life without being baptized. Did that invalidate their choice for Christ because they were not baptized. Does that make any sense at all????

How many people dieing on their death bed accepted Christ and then died before being able to be baptized. Was their heart felt acceptance nullified because they were not baptized?

I encourage you to give this a little more thought and always, may God bless you.
 
I did not say that a Christian should not be baptized. THEY SHOULD! Upon believing the gospel of the Lord Jesus and accepting Him by faith for the forgiveness of sins, every single person should follow in believers baptism.

All I have said my dear friend is that being baptized does not save anyone. If you want to say it is an act of confirmation, OK with me. It is in my opinion and I have one just as you do, it is an act of obedience to God's command. If you do not agree then that is fine with me as well.

If you will just think about this logically, how many people do you think accepted Christ on the battlefield and then lost their life without being baptized. Did that invalidate their choice for Christ because they were not baptized. Does that make any sense at all????

How many people dieing on their death bed accepted Christ and then died before being able to be baptized. Was their heart felt acceptance nullified because they were not baptized?

I encourage you to give this a little more thought and always, may God bless you.
What about the millions of Christians who think Baptism has nothing whatsoever to do with accepting Christ? Do you think they're "sprinkling babies" for no reason? It might be no reason to you, but what about to them?

All I'm saying is there are two schools of thought.
 
What about the millions of Christians who think Baptism has nothing whatsoever to do with accepting Christ? Do you think they're "sprinkling babies" for no reason? It might be no reason to you, but what about to them?

All I'm saying is there are two schools of thought.

Yes there are. You have every right to believe yours and the same applies to me.

We disagree on this so why not lets just move on?
 
The Roman church, was Already saved. Paul was not telling how to be saved, because they already knew how to be saved; rather he was quoting an Old Testament verse (Note verse 8).

Romans 10:8 "BUT WHAT SAITH it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"
Deuteronomy 30:14 "But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."

Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of The Lord."

You CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD in baptism, buy being baptized in his name.

It takes BOTH, belief John 3:16 AND BAPTISM Mark 16:16.

It's not a choice, it's both; we don't get to custom order our salvation.

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
NOTICE: the devils even BELIEVE. But they are obviously NOT saved.

Many modern day Christians do everything in the name of Jesus, but they refuse baptism in HIS NAME. AMAZING
Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
 
As I see it baptism, and in my estimation all seven sacraments, are sort of ordinary miracles. They are acts of God ordained through the New Covenant. In the case of baptism, it has been long held that anyone, even a non-christian can be baptized. In that case it is an act of God performed through the rite.

I do believe also that one's desire to be baptized is sufficient and that one could be invisibly baptized. But I think it is incorrect to assert that it is optional or symbolic.
 
Here is my question if baptism is a "sacrament" what happens with all the babies/people that where baptized by heretics?
 
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