DEATH PENALTY

[LearningToLetGo]

The only reason I said Federally mandated is to remove liberal states from NOT following through.

This is a slippery slope and bad precedent. We need less Federal intrusion into our lives, not more.

That said, I still agree with you that the death penalty is a proper sentence for certain heinous crimes and is an effective deterrent to some criminals. I wholeheartedly agree that it should be promptly implemented once the justice process (including appeals) has been completed. Sitting on death row for years and years makes little sense.

I disagree, however, that we should create special classes of people for whom sentences should differ. All murder is evil, irrespective of the victim's job or station in life. Killing a homeless prostitute is just as evil as killing a decorated police officer.

 

[Wan]

-I disagree, however, that we should create special classes of people for whom sentences should differ. All murder is evil, irrespective of the victim's job or station in life. Killing a homeless prostitute is just as evil as killing a decorated police officer.

I totally agree with this. The same type of crimes should be punished equally. One of them shouldn't be more serious than the others. A murder is a murder. And this is also why I disagree with hate crime laws. If someone kills a black person, then he should be punished for murder. Because he killed someone. Not because he doesn't like black people.

 

[Via dolarossa]

Over the last few years, we have seen a steady increase of attacks and felonious killings of law enforcement officers.
We also see on a weekly if not daily basis where a mass murder takes place.

Now what I am proposing, and I personally have written letters to both of my US Senators and Congressmen, is that we as a country, we pass a Federal Law that "ANY MURDER OF A LAW ENFORMENT OFFICER or MASS KILLING" be an automatic death sentence when the suspect is found guilty by a jury.

I asked my congressmen that the process include NO BAIL and NO APPEAL for any "technical" concerns. Guilty means guilty! I also stipulated that when the verdict is given the sentence be carried out within 60.

I for one am sick to my stomach at hearing of a man who kills a bunch of people including babies and children and I do not care what his mental problem is. Mental illness can not be an excuse to place a man in prison for 50 years so that he can live in A/C, get 3 meals a day and work out or watch TV.

Then the idea that a man can kill a Police officer is an abomination. The ONLY thing that separates the man doing the killing of us, is a Police Officer. When the killing of a police offer is allowed, you can bet that YOU will be next in line at sometime.

The reason it must be a Federal Mandated Law is that We see local district attorneys and governors that won't follow their states laws or -- some may argue --- can go overboard with it. These inconsistencies can subject the victims and their families to an uneven application of justice.

IF this kind of judgment and action would be allowed, you can bet the farm that it will reduce these heinous crimes.

I don’t know about the death penalty.
But I hate it when I hear of police officers and mass murders and any murders.

I would have said yea not so long ago, but being incarcerated is perhaps a more humane way. Because one day they may repent and I know how I would feel if it was my son or daughter who murdered someone without repentance.

I don’t know if any serial killers repented in America but I think one did in the U.K. that I’m aware of .
Myra hindley did I believe. She was never released though. I think she died in prison.

I hope you succeed in your endeavours M.

 

[crossnote]

Without the death penalty, the concept of 'justice' becomes meaningless.
I suppose those who oppose the death penalty would cry 'foul' at the thought of judgment and hell. (let alone eternal suffering in hell).

 

[Wan]

I would have said yea not so long ago, but being incarcerated is perhaps a more humane way. Because one day they may repent and I know how I would feel if it was my son or daughter who murdered someone without repentance.

I am not a hard-hearted person who wants to put a lot of people to death, however, you have to realize that some convicted murderers feign repentance because they know this benefits them in some way. And if we grant some kind of pardon to one such "I have repented" prisoner then the floodgate is opened and we have to do that for everybody else.

 

[Via dolarossa]

I am not a hard-hearted person who wants to put a lot of people to death, however, you have to realize that some convicted murderers feign repentance because they know this benefits them in some way. And if we grant some kind of pardon to one such "I have repented" prisoner then the floodgate is opened and we have to do that for everybody else.

True.
We don’t have to release them. Life should mean life. St. Paul was a murderer too but that’s a different story. But the Lord helped him and look what he became.

 

[BibleLover]

Jewish law ended at the cross. God's law, the Ten Commandments say not to kill. Those who follow Jesus are under a new law, while you buy into the Old Testament death penalty, despite this warning from the Master.

Mat 5:21-22 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: (22) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
.

The commandment concerning killing actually states Do not murder, not Do not kill.

 

[Major]

Without the death penalty, the concept of 'justice' becomes meaningless.
I suppose those who oppose the death penalty would cry 'foul' at the thought of judgment and hell. (let alone eternal suffering in hell).

Agreed.

 

[Major]

I am not a hard-hearted person who wants to put a lot of people to death, however, you have to realize that some convicted murderers feign repentance because they know this benefits them in some way. And if we grant some kind of pardon to one such "I have repented" prisoner then the floodgate is opened and we have to do that for everybody else.

Wan......my church did a Prison ministry for 20 years in Daytona Beach Fl. We had many men repent and tell me they received Jesus and they all said ......."The day I get out of here, I am coming to your church and join and work for Christ".

To this day..........NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS DONE THAT! NOT ONE!

 

[Major]

We might kill someone accidentally, say in a car accident.

Murder is pre-meditated, deliberate killing, for example in the electric chair.

As the Bible says, DO NOT MURDER.
.

The Bible also says that MURDER is to be judged by death in Genesis, Exodus, Levitcus and Deuteronomy.

The Bible does say do not murder to the individual but to the government it says that capital punishment is acceptable.

Death is the electric chair, or hanging or injection is NOT murder. It is government sanctioned JUDGMENT!

 

[Major]

This is a slippery slope and bad precedent. We need less Federal intrusion into our lives, not more.

That said, I still agree with you that the death penalty is a proper sentence for certain heinous crimes and is an effective deterrent to some criminals. I wholeheartedly agree that it should be promptly implemented once the justice process (including appeals) has been completed. Sitting on death row for years and years makes little sense.

I disagree, however, that we should create special classes of people for whom sentences should differ. All murder is evil, irrespective of the victim's job or station in life. Killing a homeless prostitute is just as evil as killing a decorated police officer.

I agree that ALL murder is insidious! All murder is evil.

However, there must be a distinction when it comes to police officers. You see, if a man is so demented so as to purposely plot and carry out an ambush and kill a police officer.....there is NO limit as to what he will do next!

 

[Major]

I didn't say it was OK with me. I merely said life imprisonment is worse than the death penalty and you disagree.

All of those things you mentioned, 3 meals a day, TV watching ...etc etc do not make up for the lack of freedom. I used to be in a psych ward and I imagine being in a prison is similar. We were allowed to read books, walk around, talk to one another and we had 3 meals a day plus we didn't have to work. There was little entertainment (I don't remember if there was a TV or not), they did not allow computer usage while on the ward. If we "behaved", they might grant us a trip to go to a park nearby, but with close supervision. We were constantly being watched, there was staff on site 24/7, and there were structures even on the outside of the ward to prevent escaping. Many many days I would just walk around in the hall way again and again till I memorized the names on each door because I was so bored. So, pretty similar to a prison. If I had to choose between that or a quick death, I'd choose the latter. It would drive you insane to live like that for the rest of your life.

I do not agree. Prison for life is an "escape" from actions done. Prison was intended as a PUNISHMENT for crimes done, not a reward.

In a psych, those people are there so that that can be helped and go back home better than when they went there. They did nothing wrong except maybe hurt themselves.

Those in Prison broke the law! I am in particular referring to MURDERERS not drug abuses or petty theives. Those people are there to be PUNISHED for what they did to others and YOU pay for their meals, and cloths and cable TV, while you child that they murdered lays in a grave.

That is and was my original point.

 

[crossnote]

The government is not the Almighty. This is man's law.
.

But government is ordained by God, just as the family is.

Romans 13:1
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

 

[Major]

Since the beginning of time, God has used people on earth to accomplish His purposes. Moses killed thousands. Should he, a mass murderer been stoned to death?
.

Are we reading the same Bible?

Ex. 34:27...........
"…He told them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each of you men is to fasten his sword to his side, go back and forth through the camp from gate to gate, and slay his brother, his friend, and his neighbor.’ ”

At God’s behest, there are recorded in the Old Testament several mass killings. To YOU think God should be stoned?????????

1. The Flood (Genesis 6-8)
2. The cities of the plain, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18-19)
3. The Egyptian firstborn sons during the Passover (Exodus 11-12)
4. The Canaanites when Joshua entered the Land (Joshua 6:17, 21)
5. The Amalekites annihilated by Saul (1 Samuel 15)

 

[Major]

The government is not the Almighty. This is man's law.
.

Allow me to say to you in brotherly love, that you are incorrect.

Romans 13:1..........
"“all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God”.

My dear brother, This means that it is God who has ordained the institution of government and that the role and purpose of government is mandated by Him.

GOD'S Law to the children was “You shall not murder” in Exodus 20:13. He meant no one could take the life of another out of hate.

Then Jesus clarified that one should not harbor hatred, murderous thoughts, or wicked feelings for a neighbor either.

If we are to be Christians and live In Biblically based approaches to the law, we should that killing must be met with a firm hand of justice. WHY???????

Because the reason why God – and by extension the Law – takes this so seriously is because, “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image” =Genesis 9:6.

Do you understand that God gave man body, soul, and a will, a level of conscience and awareness that means man can create, invent, build, and know right from wrong. God endowed man with a unique mark of His own nature, and every human bears that mark, meaning each person is loved uniquely by God. To dishonor that image is blasphemous before the Creator of that image.

 

[Major]

The government is not the Almighty. This is man's law.
.

We are to obey government for we are taught in the Scriptures that government does not bear the sword in vain. The fact that the Apostle Paul used the image of the sword in Romans 13 further supports the idea that capital punishment was to be used by government in the New Testament age as well. Rather than abolish the idea of the death penalty, Paul uses the emblem of the Roman sword to reinforce the idea of capital punishment. The New Testament did not abolish the death penalty; it reinforced the principle of capital punishment.

 

[Major]

Yes, I know, and that has me wondering about Hitler, Putin, Stalin and many others. Plus, the fact we are told to obey them. I do not want to go on the battlefield and kill people.

What do you think?
.

Now..........If Christain men had not gone to the battlefield to defeat Hitler.......you may very well be speaking German today and doing the "goosestep"!

Nations, men in England, France, Canada, Belgium, Netherland, Australia stood up, went to the battlefield, killed the enemy in WAR and died so the YOU can sit at a computer and be free to write your thoughts down for others to read!

That is what I was thinking!

 

[Major]

But government is ordained by God, just as the family is.

Romans 13:1
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

I believe that you are well aware that capital punishment is never specifically removed or replaced in the Bible. While some would argue that the New Testament ethic replaces the Old Testament ethic, and that is exactly what we have seen here, there is no instance in which a replacement ethic is introduced.

I also think that you will agree that what we see now is OPINIONS and FEELINGS. As we have already seen, Jesus and the disciples never disturb the Old Testament standard of capital punishment. The Apostle Paul teaches that we are to live by grace with one another, but also teaches that we are to obey human government that bears the sword.

I also think you will agree that Capital punishment is taught in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

That is a lot of thinking!

 

[BibleLover]

Now..........If Christain men had not gone to the battlefield to defeat Hitler.......you may very well be speaking German today and doing the "goosestep"!

Nations, men in England, France, Canada, Belgium, Netherland, Australia stood up, went to the battlefield, killed the enemy in WAR and died so the YOU can sit at a computer and be free to write your thoughts down for others to read!

That is what I was thinking!

Graveyards fill rapidly with pacifists while those who fight live on and enjoy the fruits of freedom.

 

[Major]

We might kill someone accidentally, say in a car accident.

Murder is pre-meditated, deliberate killing, for example in the electric chair.

As the Bible says, DO NOT MURDER.
.

NO SIR, that is incorrect.

Accidentally is called MANSLAUGHTER!

As YOU said.....
"Murder is pre-meditated, deliberate killing, for example in the electric chair."

NO SIR.......That is called EXECUTION and it is the direct response to the Word of God that says a life be given for the one taken by murder.

You do not seem to have a firm grasp of the definition of MURDER.

EXECUTION is NOT MURDER. It is God's judgment on a murder!