SO, would you describe your world view as atheistic?
Demons + 2 freaky incidents
- Thread starter Flavio
- Start date
I fundamentally disagree, but I have no delusion of changing your mind; I respectfully agree to disagree.
The main point I mean to communicate is that I think it is unwise to promote fear of "demons;" as the fear is a greater vice than is potentially being averted.
No, however I don't want to derail this thread. If there is a private message system on here, I would welcome the continuation of this discussion there.
The aim of this thread is not to promote fear of demons, just the opposite... to promote faith in Christ as the deliverer from demonic oppression.
The points have been raised, encouragement given and the thread has run its course.
My concern is that the mystical responses here give credence to irrational fears, thus fueling and nurturing vices and fears that are far from God.
We are told, in scripture, that it is proscribed against trying to contact the dead, or become involved with occult practices. Using Ouija boards qualifies as such an attempt. Scripture is also replete with Christ casting out demons from people - do you doubt this? Or perhaps you think He wasn't aware of the difference between mental illness and the demonic? Christian or non believer - if you invite the devil in, whether you have opened the door/portal out of disbelief or "having fun" and demons aren't really real - you will still pay the consequences. Sins, lies in particular, open portals to darkness and you are playing with fire when you do this. Only God has the power to deal with evil - human beings don't. Do a little research and the consensus is that most people so afflicted, whether knowingly or ignorantly opened the door. And it is arrogant to think human beings can fix this. God can work through people to correct it but it is His Will, not the servant who helps another that decides the matter. If you had witnessed such, I doubt you would remain unconvinced. I pray that continues for all who think it only happened in Christ's time. I don't know anyone who has dealt directly with this, wasn't afraid - it's the first symptom you have and you know but for Christ you would be mince meat. Scripture also tells you to get away, even flee from such.
Hello Flavio and i hope you are well. i was curious, do you maybe think that God is training you in this area of ministry?
Glomung
Account Closed
Call it fear if you like, but anyone who does not have a healthy respect for the harm that demons can do is living in fantasy.
If given the opportunity, they can and will seriously mess you up, physically, morally, and emotionally.
Also, nobody should decide on their own that they have the guts or faith to be an exorcist. This requires years of training and
is not for the mindlessly adventurous.
For me, I was very ignorant, and unknowing of demons, as the general consensus of many churches is to keep it quiet. It took a personal incident that afflicted me, and my girlfriend to actually pursue the truth on what demons are, and what they can do.
They are very much real and they are very much dangerous. I agree with Glomung, they can and will destroy you in any way they can. Times of weakness in your faith are a great opportunity for them. Atleast, that's what it was for me.
However, it made me stronger, and more grounded in my faith. I know that God is in control, and the wiles of Satan are nothing compared to God's power. It made me pursue the truth even more, looking back, I'm glad it happened to me, otherwise, I would have gone my life being skeptical, and ignorant to the powers that are so often overlooked.
They are very much real and they are very much dangerous. I agree with Glomung, they can and will destroy you in any way they can. Times of weakness in your faith are a great opportunity for them. Atleast, that's what it was for me.
However, it made me stronger, and more grounded in my faith. I know that God is in control, and the wiles of Satan are nothing compared to God's power. It made me pursue the truth even more, looking back, I'm glad it happened to me, otherwise, I would have gone my life being skeptical, and ignorant to the powers that are so often overlooked.
I am convinced that speak of demons is solely metaphorical, and a literal interpretation is harmful to an individual's mental and spiritual health, causing fear of the unknown and a sense of powerlessness.
A man may wrestle with his demons such as pride and avarice, but I am confident that there are no shadow forces pulling strings, controlling their minds and bodies; the only power such demons have is that which is given them.
A generation that has abandoned such mysticism will be empowered to further strive towards ethical lives because they desire it, not because they are afraid of supernatural forces physically harming them or controlling their minds.
Glomung
Account Closed
I feel sorry for you. You have completed accepted the modern materialistic paradigm.
Do a little research into the phenomena. It is obvious that you know nothing of the subject.
to paraphrase C.S. Lewis
There are two great errors that men can fall into when it comes to demons, the belief that they do not exist,
or an unhealthy interest in them. Satan hails the materialist or magician with equal glee.
I find that an unfair and nescient charge. I was raised in a fundamentalist evangelical church that strongly promoted such things and I have observed dozens of supposed "demonic" incidences throughout my history there. As a child I fully believed what they taught and I was genuinely afraid of demons. However, I became a skeptic as a teenager and began to notice that the possessions I witnessed were little more than shows and stories with no evidence to back them up.
It is truly a shame because it causes people who know better to discredit Christianity as hoodoo.
I wasn't raised "fundamentalist" nor have I "experienced" deliverance ministries where they cast out "demons" as part of the overall "entertainment" of the service. I did graduate college with a dual major - psych/soc. I worked 25 years in the criminal justice system and prior to that - 2 years as a child abuse and neglect investigator. I have also studied/researched demonics/occult practice for many years. The only "fear" I have is being separated from God and the only thing that has the means/motive/hatred to do that is evil. Scripture is not metaphorical nor is it allegorical. Scripture is truth and any truth seeker will tell you so. If you want to believe in what makes you comfortable, it's possible you aren't really looking for truth. And I can't say I blame anyone who takes that tack but I would advise that knowing deliverance ministries as the basis of knowing about this subject falls short of what is actually happening out there in the world.
Saying that Scripture isn't metaphorical or allegorical is absolutely silly and no legitimate Bible scholar would even hint at such a thought. Hermeneutics is not something to just shrug off.
Something doesn't need to be literal to be true.
Well unless you point me to a specific time in the hour long video, I'm going to naturally assume you are taking what he says out of context.
There is insurmountable support that certain biblical texts ought to be read as allegorical, that is why exegesis is a thing, the texts need to be evaluated in the manner in which they were intended to be understood.
A person who says a parable is literal is taking it out of context, and will undoubtedly draw false conclusions. It is simply nonsensical to say all Bible passages are to be read literally, and people who doggedly endorse such claims damage Christianity by pushing people away.
There is insurmountable support that certain biblical texts ought to be read as allegorical, that is why exegesis is a thing, the texts need to be evaluated in the manner in which they were intended to be understood.
A person who says a parable is literal is taking it out of context, and will undoubtedly draw false conclusions. It is simply nonsensical to say all Bible passages are to be read literally, and people who doggedly endorse such claims damage Christianity by pushing people away.
Definition of metaphor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor. You seem to define the word "metaphor" or "parable" as comparison and therefore not "reality". To say, for instance, that Christ casting out demons is a metaphor/allegory/parable and in context scripture says it was/is reality. Parables as stories or examples of the truth in a given situation - again is not metaphor. I may tell you a story and leave out names and locals and some minutae but that doesn't mean the situation never really happened. It is the understanding of the truth that is prominent. If I misunderstood your direction on the subject in this thread - apologies. You seemed to be saying Jesus casting out demons was metaphor and that demons/evil spirits don't really exist, except as boogeymen. My past experience in real life and scripture refute what you are typing.
Watch MacARthur's Strange Fire conference available on youtube - he addresses metaphors and allegory there but I can't recall which. I chose this video because I hadn't seen it before and as it is my rule to watch and rewatch the videos I post, I chose what I did and it addresses scripture as the truth and it is literal, eternal truth. It does not specifically address metaphor but I have already watched the 19 hr. strange fire conference a few times and have no time to go back over where exactly he said it - but he does say it. I didn't know anything, even the name MacArthur prior to maybe 7 months ago. But he speaks a lot of truth. And like you, for many years, I didn't take the bible literally. Now I know better
. It's as hard or as easy as you want to make it. Ask for the HS's help to read and kaboom....all of a sudden it's clear.