Did Jesus Die For Everyone...?
- Thread starter RosaVera
- Start date
hi ..
Jesus crucified sin in the flesh, because the price of sin was death .. period ..
Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh
your statement is illogical .. if Jesus died for the sins of the world .. then He would be an unrighteous judge to send anyone to hell if he already took them ..
I concur .. all belongs to him to do with as the potter sees fit ..
Rom 9:21
Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
answer this if anyone can ..
why does Jesus say "many" (polys) and not "all" (pas) ???
Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Mat 22:14 polys kletos oligos eklektos
polys
1) many, much, large
kletos
1) called, invited (to a banquet)
a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ
b) called to (the discharge of) some office
1) divinely selected and appointed
oligos
1) little, small, few
a) of number: multitude, quantity, or size
b) of time: short
c) of degree or intensity: light, slight
eklektos
1) picked out, chosen
a) chosen by God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
2) the Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
why does Jesus say "many" (polys) and not "all" (pas) ???
Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Mat 22:14 polys kletos oligos eklektos
polys
1) many, much, large
kletos
1) called, invited (to a banquet)
a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ
b) called to (the discharge of) some office
1) divinely selected and appointed
oligos
1) little, small, few
a) of number: multitude, quantity, or size
b) of time: short
c) of degree or intensity: light, slight
eklektos
1) picked out, chosen
a) chosen by God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
2) the Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
answer this if anyone can ..
why does Jesus say "many" (polys) and not "all" (pas) ???
Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Mat 22:14 polys kletos oligos eklektos
polys
1) many, much, large
kletos
1) called, invited (to a banquet)
a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ
b) called to (the discharge of) some office
1) divinely selected and appointed
oligos
1) little, small, few
a) of number: multitude, quantity, or size
b) of time: short
c) of degree or intensity: light, slight
eklektos
1) picked out, chosen
a) chosen by God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
2) the Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
why does Jesus say "many" (polys) and not "all" (pas) ???
Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Mat 22:14 polys kletos oligos eklektos
polys
1) many, much, large
kletos
1) called, invited (to a banquet)
a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ
b) called to (the discharge of) some office
1) divinely selected and appointed
oligos
1) little, small, few
a) of number: multitude, quantity, or size
b) of time: short
c) of degree or intensity: light, slight
eklektos
1) picked out, chosen
a) chosen by God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
2) the Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
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Christ died for all. The appropriate verses on that have been quoted above.
I would like to add just one point though (some minor evidence).
"You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’[a] and hate your enemy.44 But I say, love your enemies![b] Pray for those who persecute you!45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike.46 If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much.47 If you are kind only to your friends,[c] how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that.48 But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:43-48.
Why would Christ command such things of us, if He Himself had not done them first to the fullest extent?
Christ didn't just love His neighbor, or those that would become His family by believing in Him. He loved the whole world - including His enemies (the people that would never believe in Him). Just look at verse 45 - it is in God's nature to love the whole world - even those that don't heed Him. Thus He did the ultimate act of real love (agape) - He gave His life for all. Especially look at verse 46 there - would Christ have gotten the full glory if He had just died for those that loved Him?
I would like to add just one point though (some minor evidence).
"You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’[a] and hate your enemy.44 But I say, love your enemies![b] Pray for those who persecute you!45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike.46 If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much.47 If you are kind only to your friends,[c] how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that.48 But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:43-48.
Why would Christ command such things of us, if He Himself had not done them first to the fullest extent?
Christ didn't just love His neighbor, or those that would become His family by believing in Him. He loved the whole world - including His enemies (the people that would never believe in Him). Just look at verse 45 - it is in God's nature to love the whole world - even those that don't heed Him. Thus He did the ultimate act of real love (agape) - He gave His life for all. Especially look at verse 46 there - would Christ have gotten the full glory if He had just died for those that loved Him?
His sacrifice was made to offer grace to whosoever will that may come...God prefers all men everywhere would repent and receive Christ but some will reject Him and the knowledge of Him and be given over (believe me after many attempts by grace to bring them to faith) to the reprobation of their minds, but to those who receive Him, He gives 9which means they do not already have it) the right to become (as in something they are not yet) the children of God by their being born from above.
So a dilemma arise among some who do not understand, that when we are told by the Holy Spirit through Peter, Paul, and John that God wills the all men come to repentance that the reason why all do not come is because He sovereignly gave man "Dominion" over all things on the earth and being made in His image we have the ability to choose...He is true to His promise and will not violate His own word...
The power to choose to turn to Him when the Spirit beckons (by revelation or the word or hearing the gospel of our salvation) is given unto man. This is why double predestination is a non-biblical myth...and those who misunderstand that Paul and Peter teach us, that even the predestination is by His foreknowing, allows man a sovereignly required role in His all by grace salvation (for He owes no man anything because all have sinned).
Even all of the earliest church fathers who were themselves taught by the Apostles or by those the Apostles themselves taught and appointed as to what these things mean all teach this no matter which Apostle started that local body no matter where they were located. God elicits (totally by grace) and man is required to respond appropriately. This is why all things commanded are in the imperative mood, because it is pre-determined that man must respond. He has set before us life or death, blessing or curse, and tells us "choose life". Therefore though we are most certainly and undoubtedly corrupted by the fall and depraved (in that all will sin) we are not totally depraved as in absolutely incapable...but when convicted by the Spirit some will see yield in shame and humility and others will refuse to give up being lord of their own lives (Genesis 3:5) and insist on doing what is right min their own eyes.
Just my $.02
brother Paul
Without the law there is no sin...sin is a violation of God's law...Christ has fulfilled the law and we who are born from above are IN CHRIST...the curse of the law no longer applies to all who are genuinely born from above (being in Him)...for all who truly faithe all their sins have been taken onto Himself and nailed to the cross which was an act of love not the appeasement of wrath...
Hebrews 2:14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver ( to snatch away, rescue, save) them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world (not for God was so angry at the world) that He gave His only begotten Son…
Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us (not His wrath) in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for the ungodly. This Christ’s death was an action of the love of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath (we are children of “orge” – children of anger, and natural disposition, temper, indignation, agitation – this speaks of our character, not God’s anger at us because of a sense of a need to satisfy His justice), just as the others.
4 But God (now we address His attitude toward us), who IS rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us (loved as in past tense – while we were in our sins -notice it says nothing off His vehement hatred or anger at us), 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us (not wrath toward us)in Christ Jesus.
1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us (while we were still in out sin He loved us, and was not filled with wrath toward us).
Yes it is in his love and in his pity that he redeemed us. Did we deserve this love? No! We were children of orge (disobedience)…we were indignant, obstinate, of natural disposition focused on the whims of the flesh and the will of our own minds. So though He died on behalf of all mankind (making the ransom available for all) not all individuals will be saved because most will reject His gift of grace given to restore, redeem, reconcile (the Lord Jesus who loved us so much He willfully laid down His life).
Yes beloved we have been redeemed (ransomed) because of the riches of His grace by such a steadfast love (God is love) not because His need for legal justice that was satisfied. Death never “satisfies” God. It NEVER makes Him happy. God wanted Adam and Eve to avoid this consequence just as your parent who tells you do not run out into the busy traffic does not want you to get hit by a car…it was not a decree or threat of punishment for wrong doing, it was a warning from love of the inevitable consequence. Christ was a propitiation (to propitiate – to win or regain favor by doing or offering something pleasing). He was the offering (of Himself, willfully) of that which disturbed our peace (death). His blood covers our sin and transgression as an acceptable exchange. He redeemed us (ga’al - to redeem, act as kinsman-redeemer not a substitute victim, to avenge and ransomus. He was not was “victimized” in place of us. Thus God in His forebearance “passed over” our sins (Romans 3:25-26) not satisfied His need to punish.
You see beloved, there is a problem which many in the west are not aware of. In the Bible, in the Hebrew as well as the Greek, to be just or justified (as it is translated into English) is not about getting justice in the sense of vengeance, it is about being “made right” (dikaioo). This is something God does because He loves us. When the scripture says “the just shall love by faith” (a principle which Paul leans on heavily) the word “just” here means the “righteous”…to be justified means to be righteousized. The one who is righteous before God is one who lives by faith (thus having been declared righteous by God, like Abraham). Such a one is given God’s Righteousness in exchange for their faith. God counts their faith as Righteousness.
God did not hate us and want to smite us in His wrath, He loved us even in our sin (it grieved Him) and He Himself became man so we could become the sons of God (to restore the fellowship). Think of the parable of the prodigal? What does this tell us of the father? Was he waiting to beat the son, punish the son? No He was waiting for him to come to a right mind. He was already ready and willing to embrace him and reconcile with him and restore him to his rightful place. This is an analogy of the Father in relation to sinners…we grieve Him not enrage Him.
If Christ suffered a full outpouring of the wrath and it was the wrath that was eternally satisfied, then there is no more wrath…but I beg to differ as I know there is yet a wrath at the outpouring of the vials and at the judgment seat. Think on these things…
In His love
brother Paul
Hebrews 2:14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver ( to snatch away, rescue, save) them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world (not for God was so angry at the world) that He gave His only begotten Son…
Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us (not His wrath) in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for the ungodly. This Christ’s death was an action of the love of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath (we are children of “orge” – children of anger, and natural disposition, temper, indignation, agitation – this speaks of our character, not God’s anger at us because of a sense of a need to satisfy His justice), just as the others.
4 But God (now we address His attitude toward us), who IS rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us (loved as in past tense – while we were in our sins -notice it says nothing off His vehement hatred or anger at us), 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us (not wrath toward us)in Christ Jesus.
1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us (while we were still in out sin He loved us, and was not filled with wrath toward us).
Yes it is in his love and in his pity that he redeemed us. Did we deserve this love? No! We were children of orge (disobedience)…we were indignant, obstinate, of natural disposition focused on the whims of the flesh and the will of our own minds. So though He died on behalf of all mankind (making the ransom available for all) not all individuals will be saved because most will reject His gift of grace given to restore, redeem, reconcile (the Lord Jesus who loved us so much He willfully laid down His life).
Yes beloved we have been redeemed (ransomed) because of the riches of His grace by such a steadfast love (God is love) not because His need for legal justice that was satisfied. Death never “satisfies” God. It NEVER makes Him happy. God wanted Adam and Eve to avoid this consequence just as your parent who tells you do not run out into the busy traffic does not want you to get hit by a car…it was not a decree or threat of punishment for wrong doing, it was a warning from love of the inevitable consequence. Christ was a propitiation (to propitiate – to win or regain favor by doing or offering something pleasing). He was the offering (of Himself, willfully) of that which disturbed our peace (death). His blood covers our sin and transgression as an acceptable exchange. He redeemed us (ga’al - to redeem, act as kinsman-redeemer not a substitute victim, to avenge and ransomus. He was not was “victimized” in place of us. Thus God in His forebearance “passed over” our sins (Romans 3:25-26) not satisfied His need to punish.
You see beloved, there is a problem which many in the west are not aware of. In the Bible, in the Hebrew as well as the Greek, to be just or justified (as it is translated into English) is not about getting justice in the sense of vengeance, it is about being “made right” (dikaioo). This is something God does because He loves us. When the scripture says “the just shall love by faith” (a principle which Paul leans on heavily) the word “just” here means the “righteous”…to be justified means to be righteousized. The one who is righteous before God is one who lives by faith (thus having been declared righteous by God, like Abraham). Such a one is given God’s Righteousness in exchange for their faith. God counts their faith as Righteousness.
God did not hate us and want to smite us in His wrath, He loved us even in our sin (it grieved Him) and He Himself became man so we could become the sons of God (to restore the fellowship). Think of the parable of the prodigal? What does this tell us of the father? Was he waiting to beat the son, punish the son? No He was waiting for him to come to a right mind. He was already ready and willing to embrace him and reconcile with him and restore him to his rightful place. This is an analogy of the Father in relation to sinners…we grieve Him not enrage Him.
If Christ suffered a full outpouring of the wrath and it was the wrath that was eternally satisfied, then there is no more wrath…but I beg to differ as I know there is yet a wrath at the outpouring of the vials and at the judgment seat. Think on these things…
In His love
brother Paul
Thank you HisManySongs .... and i agree not all accept that wonderful gift of repentance and life eternal as our Lord gave us.
Love your way of showing simply what our Lord Jesus is for us all, the man giving out the blankets and it was cold, yet some even though it was cold did not accept the blanket that would have kept them warm which is the love of Christ and would have also given them eternal salvation.
Thank you...
so God is indeed love .. and He indeed wants us to love Him ..
but God is also a jealous God (his own words) and says we should fear Him (his own words) ..
now answer my question please .. HOW IS GOD A RIGHTEOUS GOD IF HE DIED FOR ALL SINS YET CAN THEN SEND ANYONE TO HELL FOR THOSE SAME SINS ???
Ixoye... i always thought that the high priest had received the prophecy and would have thought that he was the instrument of God to fulfill the prophecy of our Lord... but as you pointed out he did not. He misinterpreted the prophecy, his role and who Jesus was, the Messiah.
i wonder when the high priest saw the veil being rendered apart and the saints walked about, i wonder what was on their mind and why they did not now believe in Christ as the Son of God:
Matthew 27: 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many.
It also points out that the 'saints', not just any dead people, whose tombs were opened and after His resurrection they walked about... would love to know more about this... did they go back to visit, did they evangelize as some people seem to think in my research, or was it just a walk to show the magnitude and that Christ is God...
this is how it works ..
there was a whole prison full of people (the world) ..
and this King went to the prison and said, I would love that they all are worthy, but I came to redeem as many as are worthy ..
here is an amount that is so much, it can cover EVERY ONE ..
it would be nice to redeem them all, but whomsoever I accept of them .. that amount I gave you is for them ..
so the King reviewed them all and said to them .. if you truly want to a second chance, and believe what I am saying, and agree to obey me, and be good, then I will be back in a year and come and get you .. and bring you home with me .. but, if I come back and find out you broke this pact with me, then you face the sentence you are in here for .. so some never made the pact .. some did and reniged .. yet others kept their pact .. and still others changed their mind and wanted in on the deal .. so the King took the worthy ones with him and the jailer said .. but the amount you gave, was enough for all ..
AND THE KING REPLIED .. THE AMOUNT I PAID WAS WORTH THESE THAT IM TAKING WITH ME .. IT WAS FOR WHOMSOEVER WHO ARE WORTHY THAT I PAID IT FOR ..
there was a whole prison full of people (the world) ..
and this King went to the prison and said, I would love that they all are worthy, but I came to redeem as many as are worthy ..
here is an amount that is so much, it can cover EVERY ONE ..
it would be nice to redeem them all, but whomsoever I accept of them .. that amount I gave you is for them ..
so the King reviewed them all and said to them .. if you truly want to a second chance, and believe what I am saying, and agree to obey me, and be good, then I will be back in a year and come and get you .. and bring you home with me .. but, if I come back and find out you broke this pact with me, then you face the sentence you are in here for .. so some never made the pact .. some did and reniged .. yet others kept their pact .. and still others changed their mind and wanted in on the deal .. so the King took the worthy ones with him and the jailer said .. but the amount you gave, was enough for all ..
AND THE KING REPLIED .. THE AMOUNT I PAID WAS WORTH THESE THAT IM TAKING WITH ME .. IT WAS FOR WHOMSOEVER WHO ARE WORTHY THAT I PAID IT FOR ..
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Hi... you are new as i am... but you ask a question that you also do not know... and Hitler killed himself as it is reported thus he like Judas did not repent but chose to end his life which in itself goes against our faith... God does not want us to commit suicide ...
I see someone dislikes God's word .. tisk tisk
nor did they even try and answer an honest question ..
and not one iota of opinion was on that post ..
very UNCHRISTIAN whoever you are ..